Page 1 of 2
| NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 25/01/2012 at 13:17 #28188 | |
Ron_J
329 posts |
Moderator: thread split off from here Train running details are available to signallers on a seperate PC. The main tool is something called TRUST, through which the signaller can look up the details (schedules, consist, delay information) of any train running in the UK past, present and future. They may also have access to CCF which is a real time map based on panel train describer berths, showing exactly where trains are located. This is only available in certain areas, though I expect that all IECCs have it. Other programs include Web Gemini and Web Genius which are internet based tools giving similar details to those available on TRUST. Last edited: 26/01/2012 at 19:34 by mfcooper Reason: Moved Topic Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 25/01/2012 at 13:37 #28192 | |
|
clive
2739 posts |
If CCF is what I think it is, I've seen displays at several power boxes (not IECCs) - they can see where trains are throughout most of the country.
Log in to reply |
| NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 25/01/2012 at 13:52 #28193 | |
|
Ron_J
329 posts |
Indeed, it is available at most big boxes. Whether CCF is provided to signallers is down to each LOM - the software licence (£1000+ per installation) comes out of his budget. In addition large areas of the country don't have CCF coverage because they lack the required link with the train describers. Generally where CCF is provided, you can only access maps which cover the same geographical region as you, so someone in Kings Cross wouldn't be able to look up maps of Motherwell for example. It is a fairly useful tool but unfortunately it also tends to be used as a stick to beat signallers with.
Last edited: 25/01/2012 at 13:53 by Ron_J Log in to reply |
| NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 25/01/2012 at 23:54 #28240 | |
|
metcontrol
217 posts |
A few years ago, CCF was installed on a computer within the (London Underground) control room I worked at. The computer was, for the most part, left abandoned, with a chap coming in to check it still existed every 2-3 weeks. The reason (I eventually found out some time after) that it was installed was for Network Rail and Chiltern to keep track of Chiltern Trains between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Amersham. Now I see the costs probably incurred, I smile at the fact that (as told to me by the chap who came in every 2-3 weeks) the information supplied to the CCF system for the area between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Amersham was from LUL's very own Trackernet system, which is currently accessible to most LUL employees via our interal intranet. So, for thousands of pounds, Network Rail and Chiltern can see exactly what we want them to see, and we can see it for free 
Log in to reply |
| NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 26/01/2012 at 06:02 #28245 | |
|
mfcooper
707 posts |
A standard CCF license allows you 3 views within your region and a single view of each of the other regions. For example, at my work (Victoria) we can see up to 3 Southern maps, and then one each from Western, LNE, LNW, Midland, Anglia & Scotland. (if I haven't forgotten a region). You can scroll through the different maps easily, and there are even hyperlink-type-of-things at the edge of a line to take you to the next map along. Each region has a different number of map pages you can look at (Southern region has about 30). The only places I haven't seen CCF coverage are certain Absolute Block lines in the back of beyond, but most lines are in fact present. As has been mentioned elsewhere, CCF shows the train descriptions and *not* Track Circuit information. Also, depending on the age of the signal box, it can show routes that have been set, and with the brand new signalling installations actually shows the individual aspects of the signals in that area. One other function of CCF is the Replay facility. Every second each map screen is saved somewhere, and can be accessed for a period of time (about a week or so, IIRC). This is used heavily by the Train Delay Attribution team, but that's a whole different thread. You can only show one replay map at a time, but can scroll between them during a replay. A replay can be played at 1:1 speed up to 30:1. Last edited: 26/01/2012 at 06:02 by mfcooper Log in to reply The following user said thank you: ExDistrictDriver |
| NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 26/01/2012 at 10:33 #28248 | |
|
Ron_J
329 posts |
Thanks for that. It seems things have moved on since I last had dealings with CCF - I work in one of said black holes in the back of beyond (I.e. the entire North of Scotland).
Log in to reply |
| NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 26/01/2012 at 15:37 #28253 | |
DriverCurran
684 posts 
|
Another 'new' feature on CCF is that you can now get basic AHB information for crossings. The East Kent resignalling scheme now shows if the AHB's in that area are up, down and working. It does not appear that you get the failed indictaion from these. Paul You have to get a red before you can get any other colour Log in to reply |
| NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 26/01/2012 at 17:26 #28259 | |
|
mfcooper
707 posts |
The newer the signalling installation, the more information CCF shows. At Stratford NLL it didn't show anything. At Vic it shows routes set from a signal at a junction (eg: F or S line) At Basingstoke (new) it shows all signal aspects And, as DriverCurren says, East Kent (at Gillingham) now shows signal apsects & AHB state. Log in to reply |
| NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 26/01/2012 at 17:50 #28261 | |
postal
5197 posts |
" said:The newer the signalling installation, the more information CCF shows.Must be evolving like SimSig then! “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 26/01/2012 at 18:04 #28262 | |
|
John
884 posts |
It would be handy if they could get it to show unit numbers as well.
Log in to reply |
| NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 26/01/2012 at 18:12 #28263 | |
|
mfcooper
707 posts |
That's information that can be found in TRUST, if it's been updated. And i know that LOROL will not put their unit info in.
Log in to reply |
| NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 26/01/2012 at 18:19 #28264 | |
|
John
884 posts |
" said:if it's been updated....Exactly. It would be nice if the unit information that's available to you via the CSR train list could be linked to CCF in some way. Log in to reply |
| NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 26/01/2012 at 18:37 #28265 | |
|
mfcooper
707 posts |
" said:It would be nice if the unit information that's available to you via the CSR train list could be linked to CCF in some way.CSR only picks up the leading unit number, and most trains in the area I work are many units coupled together - so full unit information cannot be found from the CSR train list. And linking a local radio system (CSR) that is being replaced (by GSM-R) to a national computer system would be insanely difficult, and cause huge numbers of problems. Log in to reply |
| NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 26/01/2012 at 18:59 #28266 | |
|
John
884 posts |
" said:linking a local radio system (CSR) that is being replaced (by GSM-R) to a national computer system would be insanely difficult, and cause huge numbers of problems.You're probably right, but maybe some sort of GPS system could be used? The information contained in GENIUS is only reliable if its constantly maintained, which unfortunately is rarely the case when the service goes up the spout. I don't know whether you were on duty last week during that fatality at Norbury, but units were being stepped-up left right and center at Victoria, and I'm almost certain that the changeovers weren't being communicated in a timely fashion - if at all. Log in to reply |
| NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 26/01/2012 at 19:30 #28268 | |
|
mfcooper
707 posts |
" said:The information contained in GENIUS is only reliable if its constantly maintained, which unfortunately is rarely the case when the service goes up the spout. I don't know whether you were on duty last week during that fatality at Norbury, but units were being stepped-up left right and center at Victoria, and I'm almost certain that the changeovers weren't being communicated in a timely fashion - if at all.1) I have only ever heard about GENIUS, but have never seen or used it 2) I wasn't on duty (I was on the Panel for the Early shift, and it happened during the Late shift). However, when the service is as badly disrupted as that, it's a case of running what services you can with the available stock, drivers & conductors within their allowed time and route knowledge. During the South Croydon landslip, I saw the service being made up on the spot by the signaller and the station control point based on this availability. Log in to reply |
| Re: NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 27/01/2012 at 00:11 #28284 | |
|
Hooverman
306 posts |
Matthew wrote, During the South Croydon landslip, I saw the service being made up on the spot by the signaller and the station control point based on this availability. That explains why when the 2nd (running as a 12car) Brighton train to run through to the coast after the fast lines reopened was crewed by a Victoria Link 3 driver who only signed the route to East Grinstead! Result terminate at East Croydon empties back to Victoria. lol :-) The 1st train to Brighton was a also a 12 car that terminated at East Croydon as control ran it too early and the line still wasn't open when it arrived at East Croydon. Sometimes having all this information technology (CCF & Trust) doesn't count for much when the days train plan has completely fallen off the rails (pun intended). Last edited: 27/01/2012 at 00:59 by Hooverman Log in to reply |
| Re: NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 27/01/2012 at 02:13 #28285 | |
|
DriverCurran
684 posts
|
John Would I be right in thinking you maybe one of the Southern TSM's at Croydon by any chance. Paul You have to get a red before you can get any other colour Log in to reply |
| Re: NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 27/01/2012 at 10:41 #28300 | |
|
John
884 posts |
Paul, No, I work in Victoria control point. We've spoken on the phone a few times, at least that's if you're the Paul "The Bun" Curran I think you are. Log in to reply |
| Re: NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 27/01/2012 at 13:42 #28309 | |
|
Noisynoel
989 posts |
" said:Paul,Yes, he is, which is good because it means there is only one of him ;-) Noisynoel Log in to reply |
| Re: NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 27/01/2012 at 17:35 #28334 | |
|
mfcooper
707 posts |
" said:...No, I work in Victoria control point...John, are you Eastern side or Central side or both? Would I have spoken to you from Panel 1? Log in to reply |
| Re: NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 27/01/2012 at 17:43 #28335 | |
|
John
884 posts |
Eastern. I avoid the central side like the plague, but do occasionally cover it from time to time.
Log in to reply |
| Re: NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 27/01/2012 at 17:44 #28336 | |
|
mfcooper
707 posts |
" said:Eastern. I avoid the central side like the plague, but do occasionally cover it from time to time.Sometimes I wish I could... Anyone want to do my night shift tonight? ;-) Log in to reply |
| Re: NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 27/01/2012 at 17:50 #28337 | |
|
ralphjwchadkirk
275 posts |
I'll give it a go Matt. Can't be too hard - press a few buttons, drink a few cuppas and then doze off in the glow of the computer screen. That's what you siggies do isn't it?  :lol:
Log in to reply |
| Re: NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 27/01/2012 at 18:54 #28341 | |
|
mfcooper
707 posts |
No computer control - it's a (bloody big) NX panel. Let's see what chaos Southern's Friday evening service brings to Victoria station... Probably anything it can to cause me exhaustion!
Log in to reply |
| Re: NR computer systems - CCF et. al. 27/01/2012 at 19:03 #28343 | |
|
John
884 posts |
Matt, I've never been up to Vic box, any chance of a few piccies of the old place?
Log in to reply |