How about if the pilot has already collected the vans and is sitting at 142 when the train arrives. Straight on the rear, attach/detach/splash & the train is ready to go. That shouldn't take more than 10" from the time the train arrives.

or the train engine could be changed at sheffield
with the replacement engine and vans sat in the hs.
this was used for the manchester harrich boat trains. as the train changed direction at sheffeild
a 47 and 8 in 31 or 37 backs on to rear with buffet and 2 opens couple up then departs towards nottingham

hope this helps

paul

just knew all those saturdays and school hollidays at sheffeild station would come in usefull??

hehehe

Yes I know Paul I've got a photo of 47526 'Norhumbria' coming of Sheffield HS in 1986/87 to work 1E87 forward (The European@ as it was known then, before changing to 'The Lorelli' when it went to Manc'r Pic). However in the 1983/1984 WTT 1S85 'The European' runs from Chesterfield via Barrow Hill, Beighton Jn, Woodhouse Jn & Woodburn Jn into Sheffield & 1E87 return goes back the same way & here is no engine change at Sheffield.

yep traveled on that a few times from nottingham to sheffeild and vice versa so know the route well,
i do know that some npccs where stabled in the HS during the day as well as dmu`s.

yours

paul

Hello there,

It's a while since I've looked at the early-hours-of-the-morning part of the 1986 timetable; currently I'm alpha-testing the evening. However, in the 1986 WTT not very many of the overnight mail/parcels trains are specifically shown as attaching or detaching at Sheffield even when they are marked as changing timing load. Generally trains that change timing load at Sheffield also have long dwell times; therefore I've only carried out changes to the train formation when it is specifically listed as "stops to attach/detach" in the WTT. There are still a few of these; for example, in the evening there's a Yorkshire-Bristol parcels service that has separate Leeds and (I think) York portions joining at Sheffield.

Some of the cross-country services reversing at Sheffield changed engine there, others ran round. Peter Bennett very helpfully provided me with info on the diagrams for hauled passenger workings. In general, there's only one engine waiting at Sheffield for its next cross-country move at any one time, so I've parked it in U2S, and put the trains in P5 or P8. I've also used P8 for Transpennine trains that need to run round.

Generally I haven't worried too much about exact classes of loco in my timetable, as it doesn't really matter too much as far as Simsig operation is concerned. By 1986 there wasn't much variety in passenger working: you had 31/4s on Transpennine services, 47/4s and 31/4s on loco-hauled cross country services, and one 45 diagram left on the MML workings; plus an Immingham 31/0 on a Skeg excursion. As far as DMU workings go, I've treated all 1st-generation DMUs the same unless it's indicated otherwise in the WTT Timing Load; and assumed that all workings booked as DMU(A) in the WTT are 150/1s - these are limited to Leeds to Lincoln via Nottingham services, and the Sheffield-Chesterfield shuttle. There's a once-per-week path in the 1986 WTT for newly-built 142s to be delivered from Derby to Longsight, but I wasn't sure if any would have been running in service to Sheffield at that time.

Darnall shed had closed by '86; but there are plenty of ECS DMU moves to/from Tinsley for refuelling instead.

Expected release date for the beta version of the '86 timetable: December 31st. And I will stick to it, promise!

Thanks Peter if that was you who sent me the info RE; Cl.40's working through Sheffield in 1983/84. If not you well thanks to whoever it was who sent me that 'PMS'.
Forest Pines, in your 1986 timetable, do all the local Class '1' & '2' DMU trains have the same headcodes during the day, subject to the routing of them,because in this section 'YE' WTT there is a page at the front dedicated to this:-

Trains between the following points in both directions
Sheffield & Leeds (via Barnsley)....................54
Sheffield & Barnsley................................54
Sheffield & Chesterfield............................55
Sheffield & Huddersfield (via Penistone)............58
Sheffield & Penistone...............................58
Sheffield & Ull.....................................62
Sheffield & York (via Pontefract Baghill)...........63
Sheffield & Leeds (via Moorthorpe)..................67
Sheffield & Sleaford/Boston.........................68
Sheffield & Doncaster...............................71
Sheffield & Retford.................................72
Sheffield & Lincoln.................................73
Sheffield & Cleethorpes (via Doncaster).............75
Sheffield/Retford & Cleethorpes (via Lincoln Cen)...79
Sheffield & Chinley/New Mills Central...............85

I suspect that all these trains willhave the same headcode throughout the WTT for te whole day. This may make things easier in compiling the timetable as well as playing this timetable.

Nope. In 1986 all the trains have sequential numbering for the last 2 digits. From memory the headcodes for Eastern Region DMU services are:

2Bxx: trains via Worksop
2Cxx: trains to Doncaster/Scunthorpe
2Fxx: trains via Penistone
2Gxx: trains via Barnsley (except Penistone trains)
2Hxx: trains to York via Moorthorpe
1Jxx: Leeds-Nottingham(-Lincoln) trains
5Jxx: Sheffield District ECS moves
2Rxx: trains to Grimsby/Cleethorpes via Doncaster
2Yxx: trains to Chesterfield

The only Class 1 DMU services are the 1Jxx Sprinter services - apart from that early-morning Barnsley train that has tail traffic.

Correction: there's also a series of paths for a Sprinter test train that are Class 1; I forget the destination letter.

No worries, I know some were of the Cl40's Saturday services but thought might still give an idea and if Peter can't help anymore maybe that question and answer site i linked you in the PM might.

I'll try and see if I can find any others but being a Southerner its not always easy to tell which routes would go via Sheffield lol.

Tim

Loks like we were both typing replies at the same time. I've no doubt you will be releasing your 1986 Timetable before I wull be releasing my 1984 one. I'm looking forward to giving yours a go. I see in your last post your reference to Parcels trains at Sheffield. I'm doing my timetable slightly different. I suspect that if you compare the 1986 'section YE' WTT the nuber of Parcels trains & the number of attaching & detaching of trains at Sheffield would be reduced comared to the 1983/1984 'section YE' WTT I'm working from. Also if there is a reference in the WTT for a timing load to change at Sheffield, most of the trains stand for quite significant lengths of time whereby the train formations will change. The shortest stop over is for 1M65 2235 SX Glasgow Central - Nottingham PCD which is booked to attach & is shown in the WTT to arr. 0532 & dep. 0545. The timing load on ar is D385 = 11 vans & depart D455=13 vans. I've shown the train to be worked by a Cl.45/1. My thoughts would be an engine change at Leeds, with the @Peak' coming Holbeck returning to its home area being based at Toton & working 1M65 through to Nott'm. This part for me is important as I was a Regional Traction Controller for the best part of 12 years during my railway career. Therefore I do spend quite alot of time ensuring that the 'train types' tab whilst inputting info to make the timetable work is as accurate as I can get it. All of the other Parcels trains shown on the WTT I'm working from do allow sufficient time for the shunting to occur. 1S85/1E87 'The European' doesn't change locos at Sheffield in this WTT. In fact the train runs via Barow Hill, Beighton Jn, WodHouse Jn & Woodburn Jn in both directions. I haven't come across any loco changes at Heffield or run rounds so far. I've got as far as 0700am with the Passenger & Parcels trains so far. I'm going to complete this timetable in 3 stages. 0000-0800, then 0800-1600 & finally 1600-0000. For each section I'm doing the Passenger & Parcels trains services first, then followed by the freight trains & finally the local rea trip workings.

Thanks for that Tim, the Saturdays Only loco hauled services won't be included in my timetable as it is based on weekdays. However I'M sure Cl.40's did apear on services through Sheffield during the week in 1983/1984. There wouldn't have been many as most of them were probably on freight duties by this time.