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| Chiltern class 68s 26/07/2014 at 13:45 #63172 | |
Bagnall2067
17 posts |
http://www.globalrailnews.com/2014/07/23/first-glimpse-of-chiltern-class-68s/ First pictures of Chiltern-liveried class 68s, intended to to replace the DB Schenker (DBS) class 67s on their loco-hauled Marylebone-Birmingham trains. These locos are to be sub-leased by Chiltern from Direct Rail Services (DRS). It is a little surprising to me that Chiltern (DB-owned) is using locos from 'out-of-house' in preference to the DB 67s. Only thing that occurs to me is maybe DBS cannot spare the 67s for Chiltern work any more? The article states the first units will be with Chiltern for crew training this Autumn, with entry into passenger service this Winter. It must be said, IMHO the Chiltern silver livery does sit very well on these locos 
Last edited: 26/07/2014 at 13:55 by Bagnall2067 Log in to reply |
| Chiltern class 68s 26/07/2014 at 13:56 #63175 | |
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Copping
95 posts |
They look posh.
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| Chiltern class 68s 26/07/2014 at 14:24 #63177 | |
jc92
3629 posts |
Or just a case that its cheaper for DB to hire a 68 than run a 67?
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| Chiltern class 68s 26/07/2014 at 14:38 #63179 | |
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Bagnall2067
17 posts |
Possibly, although even with (presumably) lower operating costs with the 68s DRS's profit margin must be factored in; and if the 67s are being withdrawn because of cost reasons rather than DBS needing extra locos then the displaced 67s will presumably be stored, and DBS (and ultimately DB group) will have to pay continuing maintenance costs. You could be right, but to me withdrawing the 67s from Chiltern service would only make sense if DBS has work for them, or is disposing of them altogether (which doesn't seem particularly likely). Of course it might be the case that only Chiltern's costs in hiring the locos can be factored into the decision, what with competition legislation, etc., although I am somewhat doubtful this is the case. Last edited: 26/07/2014 at 15:02 by Bagnall2067 Log in to reply |
| Chiltern class 68s 26/07/2014 at 23:10 #63193 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
Isn't it more the fact that the 67s used by Chiltern are embarrassingly unreliable and cause their loco-hauled trains to appear at the bottom of reliability lists?
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| Chiltern class 68s 26/07/2014 at 23:23 #63194 | |
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JamesN
1574 posts |
Or could it just be that 67s aren't really designed for the work Chiltern give them (gearing too long, reactive effort too low etc etc) and the. 68s came on the market as a much closer match to what Chiltern need?
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| Chiltern class 68s 27/07/2014 at 09:32 #63197 | |
58050
2650 posts |
I can't see that the work Chiltern Railways used the Cl.37s wouldn't necessarily suit them. When I went to the DRS open day last Saturday at Crewe there were about 10 Cl.68s there & looking at the loco data panel there wasn't alot of difference between them & the Cl.67s. I suspect that the new Cl.68s have the new emissions categoristics that the EU have designated whereas the Cl.67s being older probably haven't. I don't really take much interest in Cl.67s, never have. I remember when I was a loco controller with EWS & there were 2 charter trains running to Old Trafford for a football match. Cl.47/4+11 coaches working out of St. Pancras via the MML, Dore & the Hope Valley line & a Cl.67+11 coaches out of King's Cross via the ECML to Doncaster, then via Hexthorpe Jn, Sheffield & the Hope Valley line. The 5 of us who covered the various power desks had a bet as to which one would reach the Hope Valley first. There was about 30 mins difference om the departure times with the Cl.67 ex King's Cross departing 30mins before the Cl.47/4 from St. Pancras. My money was on the Cl.47/4 apart from the fact that I preferred the Cl.47 as I had driven them when I was on the footplate, I didn't really rate Bo-Bo diesels over Co-Co ones, especially when hauling 11 Mk.1 coaches. Needless to say the Cl.47/4 got onto the Hope Valley first, but the margin between the 2 trains wasn't that great. Both the Cl.67s & Cl.68s wouldn't find hauling 5 Mk.3 coaches & a DVT too challenging even over the gradients on the route from Marylebone & both locos have 1 field divert the performance would be fairly similar. I suspect that Cl.68s with there much lighter axle loadings would probably be used on coaching sets simialr to what Chiltern use rather than working heavy freight traffic unless they were paired up. You could have a similar discussion on which is better the Cl.91s or the Cl.89, yet again it didn't come down to locomotive performance but cost & I suspect that that is or will be the main reason behind the decision to use Cl.68s. At the end of the day all the FOCs & TOCs are in it for one reason & that is to make money whether you agree that thats the way to run a railway or not.
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| Chiltern class 68s 28/07/2014 at 11:39 #63238 | |
outofsection
149 posts |
And speaking of gradients on the Chiltern/B'ham Snow Hill route, there are only really three gradients worth mentioning and all northbound. 1) between Denham Golf Club & Gerrards X - which probably won't be an issue as I doubt any Class 68 hauled trains will stop at Denham Golf Club. 2) Saunderton Bank between High Wycombe & Princes Risborough and 3) Hatton Bank which runs between Warwick Parkway & Hatton. Of the latter two, the Class 68s will have more of a job tackling Hatton Bank northbound than Saunderton bank as Hatton bank starts immediately after Warwick Parkway meaning the Class 68 will hit the bank from pretty much a standing start with no chance of a "run-up" beforehand whereas even with a stop at High Wycombe, there is at the very least a mile for the train to get up to a decent speed before the it tackles Saunderton bank. If they're not fitted with sanding gear, I can honestly see the Class 68s having real problems in the wet pulling away northbound from Warwick Parkway. Even in the dry, the gutsy Class 168s take AGES to reach 70mph up Hatton Bank where the mechanical part of the transmission takes over from the hydraulic part (engine speed drops greatly). Although having said that, the Class 67s seem to have coped so far! Time will tell I guess. I remember one railtour I went on with a Class 67 (same axle setup as the Class 68) at the head of ten Mk1 coaches: even with a good run-up beforehand, we still dropped to 15mph going up Dainton Bank in the wet. I bet the wheelslip warning lights were flashing like a Christmas Tree in the cab! Oh, there is a fourth gradient, but it's very short: after a short falling gradient entering Snow Hill Tunnel on leaving Moor St station, it is swiftly followed by a stiff 1-in-45 climb - but not for long as Snow Hill station is entered very soon afterwards. Last edited: 28/07/2014 at 11:41 by outofsection Log in to reply |
| Chiltern class 68s 28/07/2014 at 12:41 #63240 | |
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tjfrancis
358 posts |
they are only 4 runs for chiltern 67 pass snow hill in the summer 2014 timetable but it how chiltern see how they want to work sets out
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| Chiltern class 68s 28/07/2014 at 17:22 #63244 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
Indeed the gradients as tjfancis mentions are quite correct although in my experiences of drivinf over that route they were more severe than having just 5 or 6 coaches. When I was based at St. Pancras in 1985 we used to book on at 1740 to go LD from St. Pancras(Churchyard Sdgs No.3) to Northolt waste terminal via Acton Wells Jn & Greenford Loop to work the binliner to Calvert via High Wycombe & Princes Risborough & then onto the single line to Aylesbury & through Quainton Road to Calvert. The train was formed of 20 loaded freightliner flats with 20ft containers on each of the 'FFAs/FGAs'. Usually we had a Cl.45 loco which arguably was the best hill climbing loco ever built by BR or a Cl.47. When you departed Northolt you were on an adverse gradient almost immeadiately upon leaving the WLW terminal & would be climbing almost all the way to Gerrads Cross. The train had a maximum speed of 55mph as it conveyed the restrictions like 'FABRIC'. The worst gradient for the train was Saunderton, but the controller would be wide open virtually all the way & you may even reach the speed of 55mph on a couple of points on the route. On occasions adverse weather used to make it more difficult. I remember once night in December particular as it was knee deep in snow. I was the 2ndman on the train & after hand bailing the points out of snow at Northolt we set off toward High Wycombe. I remembered the semaphore bracket near High Wycombe signal box at the London end of the station being on as began to slow for a stop. The signalbox door was kicked open & the signaller ran down the box steps up the semaphore bracket & jumped off his feet, grabbed hold of the centre arm & pulled it down to the 'OFF' position. We started to accelerate again from walking pace & the signaller shouted 'You're Right Away Princes Risborough'. So with the power handle on full power we accelerated through High Wycombe station, however the semaphore signal at the end of the platform which was round the corner as the platform is on a curve wasn't visible & as we came round the corner it was on. The power handle was immeadiatley closed & the train brake placed in emergency. We stopped about an engines length past the signal & as I climbed off the loco & hearing the brakes sizziling due to the melted snow a memeber of the platform staff came running down & shouted 'You can pass this one at Danger'. So off we went again some what annoyed at what had just happened. Going from a standing start at High Wycombe with a 136 tonnes loco plus 20 loaded freightliner flats in snow was quite an effort, but the 'Peak' managed it OK. There's been several different classes of power used on the binliners prior to the introductions of Cl.66s over the years from Cl.45, Cl.47s to Cl.56s & pairs of Cl.31s all of which no doubt found it quite a tackle to get the train of 20 freightliner flats with loaded household rubbish filled containers along especially that the severest fradients are on the DOWN which is where you have a loaded train instead of empty containers on freightliner flats coming back on the UP. A totally different prospect to having a Cl.67 or Cl.68 with 5 or 6 passenger coaches & a DVT. No doubt the railway enthusiasts would give it a thumbs up as the traction variety on this route would be increased. I only ever worked on freight trains over this route, in fact about 2 weeks ago was the first time in my life I travelled as a passenger from London Marylebone to High Wycombe to visit someone who lives there. I hope Chiltern retain these loco hauled trains as I much prefer those whatever they are. This could persuade other TOCs to adopt similar trains on other routes like King's Cross/Liverpool Street to Cambridge/King's Lynn etc etc.
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| Chiltern class 68s 28/07/2014 at 18:05 #63245 | |
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tjfrancis
358 posts |
well what i been hearing that they are going to be 8 class 68 6 are in dieagamed use and 2 are backup for exams,mot's falled dvt falled so it may be top and talled
I am dyslexic so please consider this when reading my posts Last edited: 28/07/2014 at 18:11 by tjfrancis Reason: more info Log in to reply |
| Chiltern class 68s 28/07/2014 at 18:08 #63246 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
" said:2 are backup for exams,mot'sMOT isn't required for the first 3 years at least. Log in to reply |
| Chiltern class 68s 28/07/2014 at 18:10 #63248 | |
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tjfrancis
358 posts |
i know but thats what i hear
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| Chiltern class 68s 28/07/2014 at 18:29 #63249 | |
onlydjw
456 posts |
MOT's - eh? Trains have exams (hours and/or mileage based depending on use and requirements). Road vehicles have MOTs! (Cars at 3 years, certain other types after 1 year). God bless, Daniel Wilson Log in to reply |
| Chiltern class 68s 29/07/2014 at 07:14 #63260 | |
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jc92
3629 posts |
A, B, C etc exams, ranging from a quick once over, to a full blown wheel drop/engine change, I'm sure Pascal will be able to expand on the tests, and the hours for each from his allocating days?
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| Chiltern class 68s 29/07/2014 at 08:04 #63261 | |
Peter Bennet
5357 posts |
There's a bit here though I can't view the uploaded docs. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Chiltern class 68s 29/07/2014 at 09:54 #63264 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
The first generation mainline diesel locomotives such as Cl.47, Cl.46, Cl.45, Cl.37 etc etc were required to have 'A' exams every 55 hours. 'B' Exams, 'C' Exams, 'D' Exams, 'E' Exams were pre-assigned by the Maintenance Control for the Regions & subsequently pre-assigned a specific exams at a major TMD or Works. Works overhauls were slighly different & were called 'Light', 'Intermeadiate' or 'Heavy' & these were pre-assigned to places like Doncaster, Stratford, Crewe, Derby, Ashford Chart Leacon, Eastleigh, Swindon, Springburn or St. Rollox(Glasgow). In my job as Regional Traction Controller we had different colured 'T' cards with all the loco numbers written on them in black felt tip. In the 'T' card board on the desk next to the TOPS machine & printer were Cards indicating the various loco diagrammed to work into & out of as well as within the Region of your control. The 'T' cards with the loco numbers on them were in different colours. Green - RfD(incl. Freightliner at that time) Red - Postal/Parcels locos Grey - Departmental locos White - Inter-City locos Mauve - for Coal locos Blue - Petroleum locos any additional locos numbers were written on whatever colour you picked if they weren't the usual locos you dealt with on a daily basis. We also had metal tag that slotted onto the loco cards & each different type of tag denoted a cartain thing. red tag indicated the loco was due an 'A' exam & they were attached to loco cards when a loco had less then 15 TOPS hours left on the clock. There were also Red, Yellow, Green & Black square tags which denoted things such as pre-assigned Exams, or pre-assigned maintenace or repair, No ETH or multiple working not operational etc etc. So you could look at the board & visually see what locos required 'A' exams or had pre-assignments allocated to them. Cl.56s, Cl.58s & Cl.60s had 'A' exams every 80 hours. However when the Cl.66s entered service that chaned from hours to days & the larger Exams were also changed from 'C', 'D', 'E' or 'F' Exams to balanced 'B' Exams whereby at each balanced 'B' Exam a certain amount of work was carried out on each loco & balanced 'B' Exams were allocated after a number of 'A' Exams & were assigned by the Maintenance Control. The job of the Loco controller was to allocate engines to diagrams taking great care in making sure the loco allocated to a speccific diagram had sufficient TOPS hours to complete the diagram. If a loco ran past the '0' or went into '-hours', this was regarded as a 'safety of the line' issue whereby the loco had to be examined at the nearest convienient location. This involved traction fitters to examine the brake blocks & other safety of the line equipment on the loco before it was allowed to continue its journey to the first available place for the loco to be changed once the Regional Control & then later Railtrack or Network Rail were advised of the condition of the locos brakes etc, before they in turn advised the signaller to let the train go. The loco would then have an 'OJ' restriction applied to it which means One Journey Only. Traction Controllers risked being disciplined if they allocated a loco to a job which didn't have sufficient hours to complete the diagram. Another trick regions used to carry out were usually to get rid of all the locos on their regions to other regions which had single figure hours to run such as 8 or 9 hours left on the clock before 'A' exam was due, so the Region receiving the train had to deal with the locos 'A' exam. Engine hours were subtracted via the TOPS system whereby when a loco is consisted onto a train in TOPS & then the departure time is entered when that train terminates or arrives at a locoation booked for a loco change when the trains arrival time is input into the system the number of TOPS hours is subtracted off. It was also the loco controllers job to present any loco with a maintenance pre-assignment for Exam or rrepair at the booked TMD or Works at the booked time specified by the pre-assignment. On the loco boards such as the one at Liverpool Street Regional Control we had sections of the boards listed as 'Stratford Out of Service', 'Stratford Available' & this was repeated for Ripple Lane, Cambridge, Ipswich, Norwich, Harwich Parkeston Quay & March & the 'T' card for each loco on that ptach was placed in either the Out of Service or Available part of the baord. When I was loco controller for EWS covering the Yorkshire/Humberside & East Midlands areas we eventually stopped using the 'T' card boards & started using TMD plans on sheets of 'A' paper for Toton, Worksop, Immingham, Knottingley, Doncaster & Healey Mills. But for me I much preferred the 'T' card board as you could see at a glance what locos required exams or which locos had pre-assignments against them. All good fun. I don't know what system they use today as loco controllers don't exist anymore. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: dwelham313, Stephen Fulcher |
| Chiltern class 68s 29/07/2014 at 10:23 #63265 | |
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Underwood
746 posts |
Well Hitler isn't happy with Chiltern at the moment! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTmB8hzhE0E&app=desktop :lol: Log in to reply The following users said thank you: welshdragon, 58050 |
| Chiltern class 68s 29/07/2014 at 12:25 #63268 | |
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GW43125
495 posts |
" said:Well Hitler isn't happy with Chiltern at the moment!Brilliant one underwood! Love it! One thing: Could you possibly put some form of warning up there about the language. P.S: Developers could we please, please have a like button on the forum? Thanks. Log in to reply |
| Chiltern class 68s 29/07/2014 at 12:34 #63269 | |
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Peter Bennet
5357 posts |
" said:Most people just use the "thank you" button. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |