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A little Mock-SimSig Fun!

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 31/05/2021 at 15:21 #139813
postal
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bill_gensheet in post 139812 said:
The N7 0-8-2T reflected in the mirror is one of those built at Stratford to AJ Hill's design . . . .
Someone has put a typo in at some stage. N7 were 0-6-2T not 0-8-2T. The LNER system allocated each wheel arrangement a letter. The full listing (as given on Wikipedia) is:

A: 4-6-2 B: 4-6-0 C: 4-4-2 D: 4-4-0 E: 2-4-0 F: 2-4-2 G: 0-4-4 H: 4-4-4 J: 0-6-0 K: 2-6-0 L: 2-6-4 M: 0-6-4 N: 0-6-2 O: 2-8-0 P: 2-8-2
Q: 0-8-0 R: 0-8-2 S: 0-8-4 T: 4-8-0 U: 2-8-0+0-8-2 V: 2-6-2 W: 4-6-4 X: 4-2-2 & 2-2-4 Y: 0-4-0 Z: 0-4-2

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 31/05/2021 at 17:35 #139816
jc92
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postal in post 139813 said:
bill_gensheet in post 139812 said:
The N7 0-8-2T reflected in the mirror is one of those built at Stratford to AJ Hill's design . . . .
Someone has put a typo in at some stage. N7 were 0-6-2T not 0-8-2T. The LNER system allocated each wheel arrangement a letter. The full listing (as given on Wikipedia) is:

A: 4-6-2 B: 4-6-0 C: 4-4-2 D: 4-4-0 E: 2-4-0 F: 2-4-2 G: 0-4-4 H: 4-4-4 J: 0-6-0 K: 2-6-0 L: 2-6-4 M: 0-6-4 N: 0-6-2 O: 2-8-0 P: 2-8-2
Q: 0-8-0 R: 0-8-2 S: 0-8-4 T: 4-8-0 U: 2-8-0+0-8-2 V: 2-6-2 W: 4-6-4 X: 4-2-2 & 2-2-4 Y: 0-4-0 Z: 0-4-2
Not to mention the B12 that's lost a wheel off one axle!

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 01/06/2021 at 08:22 #139827
kbarber
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bill_gensheet in post 139812 said:
Image from Stratford Central Jn looking west/up

Signalman had a mirror to see trains coming.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/webimg/QVNIMTIwMDY3Nzcx.jpg?&width=640

August 1923: A mirror helps the signalman looking down the old Great Eastern line from Stratford Central station. The view from the signalbox was obscured by the waiting room roof and chimney stacks. The Channelsea curve is on the right, giving connections to the North London Railway at Victoria Park, and the Cambridge main line near Loughton Branch Junction. The N7 0-8-2T reflected in the mirror is one of those built at Stratford to AJ Hill's design, while in the background a B12 4-5-0 and a tank engine - possibly a J69 0-6-0T - stand alongside trains of very mixed empty stock. (Photo by Hulton Archive/Getty Images)

Also
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOTO-GER-STRATFORD-CENTRAL-JUNCTION-DIAGRAM-OF-SIGNALS-C1919-/193542740429


Bill

Wow! Just... wow! Thank you Bill.

So that up platform was a bay, not intended as a running loop.

Central Junction at least 165 levers. Well, I'm not surprised. That must have been fun, particularly with the short sections.

bill_gensheet in post 139810 said:

I think otherwise, the now Cambridge lines were the former Local and 'Woolwich' became Electrics.
There was definitely a degree of widening after the 1913 maps. By 1976, south to north, there was the Fenchurch Street Single Line (which, I suspect, was on the alignment of the old Up Woolwich), the Electric Lines (Down Woolwich & Up Through), Main Lines (Down Through & Up Local), Cambridge Lines (Down Local & Up Cambridge Goods) and goods lines (designation uncertain, Down Cambridge Goods & Down Carriage) through the section between Western Junction and Bow Junction.

bill_gensheet in post 139810 said:
As for simulations, some aspects of the timetable look fun too. There were (1922) Fenchurch St - Ongar crossing the whole layout at a fair frequency <snip>
That explains them wanting a Fenchurch St shuttle, with Stratford - Epping being taken over by the Central Line as part of the total works.

Amazing what a can of worms opens when someone asks about platform numbers isn't it! I hope everyone else is getting some enjoyment from our anorakish delvings.

Last edited: 01/06/2021 at 08:24 by kbarber
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 01/06/2021 at 11:22 #139829
bill_gensheet
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Another one of interest, Bow Jn post 1949 with the single line arrangements at the Bow end through to Thorntons Fields CS, along with some useful memories:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/beechwoodphotography/4341659121/
Several other boxes and panels in the same users' pages

As you say some squeezing / realignment as there's more tracks than 1913 especially over the river bridges, and easing what would otherwise be quite a kink at Bow onto the unchanged alignments. Between bridges there were sidings that were removed. However the Cambridge lines were a simple double junction onto the (old) P9/P10 lines right through to 2000.
eg https://live.staticflickr.com/5473/11287047576_310ee9fb2f_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/2652/4095167911_921d6a7e8e_b.jpg

One query arising now is that the 1919 diagram shows interface to Eastern Jn on P10 (now 10A) and 'Pontoon (?)' presumably at the north of the Cambridge platforms.
There is a S.B. shown on the P10/P11 vee of the 1913 surveys in a simlilar location to the later power box. Was that out of use with signals taken over by the 1919 Central Jn ?

Bill

(This thread has indeed a life of its' own, how easy for a mod to move the relevant posts to 'real thing' section ?
I am OK to re-upload my Stratford diagram back to mock sim sig once amended)

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 02/06/2021 at 08:07 #139836
kbarber
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bill_gensheet in post 139829 said:
Another one of interest, Bow Jn post 1949 with the single line arrangements at the Bow end through to Thorntons Fields CS, along with some useful memories:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/beechwoodphotography/4341659121/
Several other boxes and panels in the same users' pages
Thank you again Bill. Some gems there, and one or two memories as well.

bill_gensheet in post 139829 said:
As you say some squeezing / realignment as there's more tracks than 1913 especially over the river bridges, and easing what would otherwise be quite a kink at Bow onto the unchanged alignments. Between bridges there were sidings that were removed. However the Cambridge lines were a simple double junction onto the (old) P9/P10 lines right through to 2000.
eg https://live.staticflickr.com/5473/11287047576_310ee9fb2f_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/2652/4095167911_921d6a7e8e_b.jpg
Yes I see. The brain cell is clearly struggling a bit. (Well it is north of 40yr ago, and with my father being Area Inspector I didn't actually get to play with it, even though I had a few visits.)

bill_gensheet in post 139829 said:
One query arising now is that the 1919 diagram shows interface to Eastern Jn on P10 (now 10A) and 'Pontoon (?)' presumably at the north of the Cambridge platforms.
There is a S.B. shown on the P10/P11 vee of the 1913 surveys in a simlilar location to the later power box. Was that out of use with signals taken over by the 1919 Central Jn ?
Yes, I've been wondering about that 'SB'. The 1919 diagram doesn't show a lot of space for such a building. The Offices, by 1976, housed the Area Inspector and the Traffic Assistants, and I don't think there was a lot of room for a proper 'box. Total speculation, but I wonder if it might have been accommodation for a numbertaker or a tail lamp man? Such things weren't unknown; there was a numbertaker's box at Bethnal Green to advise LV what engines were arriving on what trains, and at York there was a tail lamp cabin at the former Holgate Junction to advise Loco Yard when trains for York Yards had passed clear with tail lamp. Numbertaker feels more likely than tail lamp in this instance, but you never quite know. Clearly gone (or at least not involved in signalling) by 1919.

bill_gensheet in post 139829 said:
Bill

(This thread has indeed a life of its' own, how easy for a mod to move the relevant posts to 'real thing' section ?
I am OK to re-upload my Stratford diagram back to mock sim sig once amended)
Good idea.

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 02/06/2021 at 18:05 #139840
elltrain3
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To Continue my chain of mocks, here is another fresh one...this time Lincoln!

Covering rather a lot of mechanical AB Boxes it stretches from the fringe to Peterborough through to Lincoln where the line from Wrawby and Barnetby joins
then continues onwards towards Doncaster at Newarks Flat X-ing and back onto south Humberside at Gainsborough

This is the era where most boxes (bar Spalding & the Barnetby line boxes) retain semaphores, levers and bells including the dense station at Lincoln
Plus the dozens of crossings dotted around on all panels!

Post 2008 the Boxes at West Holmes, East Holmes, High St, and Pelham St, Saxilby closed, control to the lincoln SCC
Post 2012 The Boxes at Blankney, Scopwick, Sleaford North and Sleaford South Closed again Control to the Lincoln SCC In This Year Gosberton also got a refurb from a frame to panel though was abolished only 2 years later.
Finally Post 2014 the final section was resignalled abolishing the boxes at Blotoft, Gosberton, Mill Green, Spalding, Littleworth and St James Deeping, control passing to Lincoln SCC
So in 2021 The Only "signal boxes" in the sim still to operate are the 3 Barnetby line boxes Langworth, Wickenby and Holton-Le-Moor with 2 still working AB though all 3 are panels meaning The island of semaphores at Swinderby is the ONLY place where semaphores and levers can still be found, and Lincoln SCC itself, EVERY OTHER box in the sim has since vanished most having been demolished.

In addition, the line from Lincoln - Peterborough has A LOT of manned gate cabins and gate operating crossings (10 gate boxes and 8 Gate Crossings!) all of which were converted to MCBs meaning if I ever get access to the Lincoln SCC diagrams there will be a LOT of crossings to drop!

I feel this would a quiet yet varied sim though could be fun with diversions on!

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 14/06/2021 at 19:17 #140022
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Being I've been busy travelling to/from the railway hub that is Crewe I thought I'd make a mock as why not!

The area crisscross's soooo much it's rather a pain to simulate and laying out all the boxes in a good layout seems impossible so good luck to the developers when they eventually make a sim of Crewe!

The Boxes then:
First up Its Basford Hall, which is simple enough though has the fun job of regulating freight from Basford hall yard and sending them through, plus has Absolute block to play with! But though small a busy little panel!

Next along we reach the MAGNIFICENT Crewe Stn (Crewe SCC) Panel which although is only a small area geographically in the sim is an intense and hard job! You have control of the lines from Kidsgrove through Alsager and the single line through to the station itself, then at south junction, you have the 4 track mainline, Stoke and Nantwich lines converging with some heavy slotting into the DED (LSL) and on the line to Gresty Lane, then continuing through the station we have the lines leaving for Chester, Salop goods, Manchester and Coal yard to the North so all-in-all a very Intense panel.

Also on the LHS we have Gresty Lane SCC Which replaced the earlier Gresty Lane No1 SB in 2016 and is a very modern setup, with plenty of of shunting and slow freights to shunt and move around in between the half-hourly passenger service on the line.

Next is Salop Goods, a mechanical lever frame working PERMISSIVE BLOCK to SSN one of the few places in Britain now to do so outside a station! but layout-wise is simply taking the Fast & Slow freight independent lines and splits them either into the Manchester Independants which lead onto the Manchester south sim or onto the Liverpool independents which take you onto the coal yard panel.

Next, up Steelworks, which like its Neiburgh Beeston Castle on the Chester sim is very simple and involved cleaning the main signals for every move!

Coal Yard is our next stop, and here we see more evidence of complex slotting with Crewe PSB and very restrictive movements works AB to Salop and an equally busy box as the others in the sim.

Second, to last is Winsford split between the frame & Panel that reside in the box. it controls multiple 4-2 junctions and also works the main junction diverging Liverpool trains from Anglo-Scottish ones a very busy panel also!

Finally, we reach the ruler of all boxes Sorting-Sidings-North which has a stupidly complex layout with lots of short overlaps, shunting, slots, permissive and absolute block, plus all the through freight traffic that passes through Crewe meaning in a good chain with delays this box could be rather a lot of fun I feel!

I'm gonna try and make a 1985-2015 version before Gresty lane was abolished but after North & south junctions closed

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 14/06/2021 at 19:21 #140023
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elltrain3 in post 140022 said:

Next is Salop Goods, a mechanical lever frame working PERMISSIVE BLOCK to SSN the only place in Britain now to do so outside a station! but layout-wise is simply taking the Fast & Slow freight independent lines and splits them either into the Manchester Independants which lead onto the Manchester south sim or onto the Liverpool independents which take you onto the coal yard panel.
Workington Main No 2 - Workington Main No 3 works Permissive Block outside of a station on the Bi-Directional Reception siding.

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 14/06/2021 at 19:31 #140026
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do they work permissive? I thought it was just standard AB? Interesting Crewe will be the busiest but still nice to know other places retain it!
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 15/06/2021 at 18:56 #140046
ajax103
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elltrain3 in post 140022 said:
Being I've been busy travelling to/from the railway hub that is Crewe I thought I'd make a mock as why not!

The area crisscross's soooo much it's rather a pain to simulate and laying out all the boxes in a good layout seems impossible so good luck to the developers when they eventually make a sim of Crewe!

The Boxes then:
First up Its Basford Hall, which is simple enough though has the fun job of regulating freight from Basford hall yard and sending them through, plus has Absolute block to play with! But though small a busy little panel!

Next along we reach the MAGNIFICENT Crewe Stn (Crewe SCC) Panel which although is only a small area geographically in the sim is an intense and hard job! You have control of the lines from Kidsgrove through Alsager and the single line through to the station itself, then at south junction, you have the 4 track mainline, Stoke and Nantwich lines converging with some heavy slotting into the DED (LSL) and on the line to Gresty Lane, then continuing through the station we have the lines leaving for Chester, Salop goods, Manchester and Coal yard to the North so all-in-all a very Intense panel.

Also on the LHS we have Gresty Lane SCC Which replaced the earlier Gresty Lane No1 SB in 2016 and is a very modern setup, with plenty of of shunting and slow freights to shunt and move around in between the half-hourly passenger service on the line.

Next is Salop Goods, a mechanical lever frame working PERMISSIVE BLOCK to SSN one of the few places in Britain now to do so outside a station! but layout-wise is simply taking the Fast & Slow freight independent lines and splits them either into the Manchester Independants which lead onto the Manchester south sim or onto the Liverpool independents which take you onto the coal yard panel.

Next, up Steelworks, which like its Neiburgh Beeston Castle on the Chester sim is very simple and involved cleaning the main signals for every move!

Coal Yard is our next stop, and here we see more evidence of complex slotting with Crewe PSB and very restrictive movements works AB to Salop and an equally busy box as the others in the sim.

Second, to last is Winsford split between the frame & Panel that reside in the box. it controls multiple 4-2 junctions and also works the main junction diverging Liverpool trains from Anglo-Scottish ones a very busy panel also!

Finally, we reach the ruler of all boxes Sorting-Sidings-North which has a stupidly complex layout with lots of short overlaps, shunting, slots, permissive and absolute block, plus all the through freight traffic that passes through Crewe meaning in a good chain with delays this box could be rather a lot of fun I feel!

I'm gonna try and make a 1985-2015 version before Gresty lane was abolished but after North & south junctions closed
Shrewsbury is spelt wrong btw!

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 15/06/2021 at 20:25 #140048
elltrain3
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is it? oh yeah xD oops
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 28/06/2021 at 18:05 #140249
elltrain3
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So another small project i've just finished, A Kings Lynn Sim with 3 eras,

1985, Covering roughly the era between 1980 and 1990 before the layouts were rationalised further

1990-2020 the main era with the layouts seeing barely any changes aside from the re-modelling at Kings Lynn

2021, the final most modern era adds the EMU Siding that has just come into use at Kings Lynn!

a nice little sim, which would make great a nice free sim should it ever be released just a nice size for 1 person to manage!






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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 28/06/2021 at 18:09 #140250
andyallen4014
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elltrain3 in post 140022 said:
Being I've been busy travelling to/from the railway hub that is Crewe I thought I'd make a mock as why not!

The area crisscross's soooo much it's rather a pain to simulate and laying out all the boxes in a good layout seems impossible so good luck to the developers when they eventually make a sim of Crewe!

The Boxes then:
First up Its Basford Hall, which is simple enough though has the fun job of regulating freight from Basford hall yard and sending them through, plus has Absolute block to play with! But though small a busy little panel!

Next along we reach the MAGNIFICENT Crewe Stn (Crewe SCC) Panel which although is only a small area geographically in the sim is an intense and hard job! You have control of the lines from Kidsgrove through Alsager and the single line through to the station itself, then at south junction, you have the 4 track mainline, Stoke and Nantwich lines converging with some heavy slotting into the DED (LSL) and on the line to Gresty Lane, then continuing through the station we have the lines leaving for Chester, Salop goods, Manchester and Coal yard to the North so all-in-all a very Intense panel.

Also on the LHS we have Gresty Lane SCC Which replaced the earlier Gresty Lane No1 SB in 2016 and is a very modern setup, with plenty of of shunting and slow freights to shunt and move around in between the half-hourly passenger service on the line.

Next is Salop Goods, a mechanical lever frame working PERMISSIVE BLOCK to SSN one of the few places in Britain now to do so outside a station! but layout-wise is simply taking the Fast & Slow freight independent lines and splits them either into the Manchester Independants which lead onto the Manchester south sim or onto the Liverpool independents which take you onto the coal yard panel.

Next, up Steelworks, which like its Neiburgh Beeston Castle on the Chester sim is very simple and involved cleaning the main signals for every move!

Coal Yard is our next stop, and here we see more evidence of complex slotting with Crewe PSB and very restrictive movements works AB to Salop and an equally busy box as the others in the sim.

Second, to last is Winsford split between the frame & Panel that reside in the box. it controls multiple 4-2 junctions and also works the main junction diverging Liverpool trains from Anglo-Scottish ones a very busy panel also!

Finally, we reach the ruler of all boxes Sorting-Sidings-North which has a stupidly complex layout with lots of short overlaps, shunting, slots, permissive and absolute block, plus all the through freight traffic that passes through Crewe meaning in a good chain with delays this box could be rather a lot of fun I feel!

I'm gonna try and make a 1985-2015 version before Gresty lane was abolished but after North & south junctions closed
Interesting to see your interpretation of this newer era, the only one I had seen previously was up to 2015.

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 28/06/2021 at 19:05 #140251
elltrain3
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Yeah was tricky in places, as i said prior good luck to the devs who organise this! its very complex and tight! but yeah gresty lane is a lot cleaner now it's been remodelled though I can't deny I was sad to see the Crewe S&T Home-made panel go
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 29/06/2021 at 05:26 #140257
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They have certainly done an excellent job. Hopefully it will see the light or day as a finished product at some stage.
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 29/06/2021 at 17:02 #140268
ajax103
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elltrain3 in post 140249 said:
So another small project i've just finished, A Kings Lynn Sim with 3 eras,

1985, Covering roughly the era between 1980 and 1990 before the layouts were rationalised further

1990-2020 the main era with the layouts seeing barely any changes aside from the re-modelling at Kings Lynn

2021, the final most modern era adds the EMU Siding that has just come into use at Kings Lynn!

a nice little sim, which would make great a nice free sim should it ever be released just a nice size for 1 person to manage!





Nicely done, Ely to Norwich next please

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 29/06/2021 at 17:27 #140269
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ajax103 in post 140268 said:
Nicely done, Ely to Norwich next please ;)

Would be good I agree but I don't know which era I would prefer. I have photos though from nearly all the boxes on that line though.

Dave

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 29/06/2021 at 20:45 #140270
elltrain3
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I'm currently doing a Peterborough (Exc) to Ely/March (still deciding)
and have diagrams for the 1980s 1990s and the modern 2000s which I'll post here once finished.

I have also realised it's possible import bitmaps of current sims so might try that later and have a play with some modern layouts on the ECML AJ

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 02/07/2021 at 15:29 #140309
elltrain3
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So, after my new realisation, here is a "modern" (2022) Peterborough:
The layout is odd as it's changed very dramatically in someplace but very little in others!

So Since the current sim era the following has changed:
Peterborough lost its Fly-ash & goods lines and they were replaced by brand new bi-di platform Nos 7 & 8,
Peterborough east sidings were abolished, and are now under a housing estate!
The spur sidings survived and still exist!
Platform 1 was abolished with P2 Extended to cover the former entrance to P1
a NEW platform was added on the former Up Fast Line now numbered 3 under the new system.
Various new X-Overs were installed allowing full BiDi working through most platforms.
The yard also changed, with a IET Stabaling point now established, and shown on tthe diagram!

The other MAJOR change was the new "Werrington dive under" allowing freight to avoid crossing the fast lines and diverge under them instead. i shown this as 1 track circuit on the sim mock as being the track hasn't been laid yet I've no idea how they'll do it!

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 02/07/2021 at 18:06 #140310
ajax103
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elltrain3 in post 140309 said:
So, after my new realisation, here is a "modern" (2022) Peterborough:
The layout is odd as it's changed very dramatically in someplace but very little in others!

So Since the current sim era the following has changed:
Peterborough lost its Fly-ash & goods lines and they were replaced by brand new bi-di platform Nos 7 & 8,
Peterborough east sidings were abolished, and are now under a housing estate!
The spur sidings survived and still exist!
Platform 1 was abolished with P2 Extended to cover the former entrance to P1
a NEW platform was added on the former Up Fast Line now numbered 3 under the new system.
Various new X-Overs were installed allowing full BiDi working through most platforms.
The yard also changed, with a IET Stabaling point now established, and shown on tthe diagram!

The other MAJOR change was the new "Werrington dive under" allowing freight to avoid crossing the fast lines and diverge under them instead. i shown this as 1 track circuit on the sim mock as being the track hasn't been laid yet I've no idea how they'll do it!
A few issues here that either wrong with the layout or are wrong in explaining which as a former Peterborough resident I strongly feel the urge to correct you!

1. Platform 1 was taken out of use so the then Platform 2 could be extended over the connection into Platform 1, Platform 2 then got renumbered to Platform 1.

2. There is no IEP sidings at Peterborough, what you are thinking of is Spital Carriage Sidings which was constructed primarily to stable Class 700s.

3. You've mislabelled Platforms 4 and 5 as Platforms 5 and 6.

4. The new platforms 6 and 7 built on the former Flyash line are mislabelled as Platforms 7 and 8

And you're welcome

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 02/07/2021 at 18:46 #140311
elltrain3
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Thank you! xD knew i couldn't get it perfect haha
why were spital sdgs built may I ask? something about the 700s not fitting in nene CS?

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 02/07/2021 at 20:23 #140312
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elltrain3 in post 140311 said:
Thank you! xD knew i couldn't get it perfect haha
why were spital sdgs built may I ask? something about the 700s not fitting in nene CS?
You're welcome, I have a OCD regarding my former stomping ground that it has to be correct.

As to Spital Sidings, it was built to take pressure off Nene Sidings for the Class 700s because the plan back in 2015 was the Nene would be used for stabling and the Spital would be used for the train wash and train presentation.

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 02/07/2021 at 21:06 #140313
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Its alright xD

and ah okay so it was more overflow, due to the new TT, nice!

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 03/07/2021 at 08:52 #140314
ajax103
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elltrain3 in post 140313 said:
Its alright xD

and ah okay so it was more overflow, due to the new TT, nice!
Indeed, although sometimes both locations are used for stabling although generally speaking Class 700s are usually stabled in Spital you can find them on the Nene too.

Did you get around to the platform corrections?

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 03/07/2021 at 09:48 #140315
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While you are making the changes brought on by the previous comments, I think you will find that the sidings at Little Barford PS have been lifted
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