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How do I... 21/11/2009 at 16:32 #283
jdtech
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On a timetable I am writing for Southampton, I have a number of trains which only run 25% of the time. These trains have return workings later on in the day which I only want to run if the first train has run.

I can see a "Train X must not run if Train Y runs", but I want a "Train X must run if Train Y runs". I tried using "Train X must not leave Z until xx minutes after Train Y arrives at Z", with the first train running 25% of the time, and the second train 100% of the time. Surely the second train should only spawn if the first train has run? But it seems this is not the case!

Any help is much appreciated.

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How do I... 21/11/2009 at 16:32 #4308
jdtech
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69 posts
On a timetable I am writing for Southampton, I have a number of trains which only run 25% of the time. These trains have return workings later on in the day which I only want to run if the first train has run.

I can see a "Train X must not run if Train Y runs", but I want a "Train X must run if Train Y runs". I tried using "Train X must not leave Z until xx minutes after Train Y arrives at Z", with the first train running 25% of the time, and the second train 100% of the time. Surely the second train should only spawn if the first train has run? But it seems this is not the case!

Any help is much appreciated.

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How do I... 21/11/2009 at 16:38 #4309
AndyG
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Try using "Part2 must enter xxx minutes after Part1 leaves area". Then if Part1 doen't run, Part2 will never enter, if Part1 runs, Part 2 will.

xxx can either be the TTed duration off sim, so if Part1 is late, Part2 is similarly late, or maybe less, or if set to a short time should allow Part2 to enter at its due time.

I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
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How do I... 21/11/2009 at 17:12 #4314
jdtech
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I'll try that, but I don't see how "leaves the area" is any different to "arrives at Z", where Z is set to the entry point for Part 2? Part 1 hadn't arrived at Z, yet Part 2 still spawned regardless.
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How do I... 21/11/2009 at 17:21 #4315
AnyFile
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Can you use the "appear after entry" rule instead?

(YYYY should not enter before ttt mins XXX has entered)

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How do I... 21/11/2009 at 18:00 #4319
jdtech
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An option for "Train 1 must appear X minutes after Train 2 enters/leaves the area" is available. I may try that and see what happens, the only trouble being that that could result in Train 2 spawning in to the area early.

But, going back first rule I tried - I don't see why that doesn't work.

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How do I... 21/11/2009 at 18:10 #4321
AnyFile
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And what have you put for value Z?
I suspect you can use normal location only, not entry point.

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How do I... 21/11/2009 at 18:11 #4322
AndyG
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jdtech said:
I'll try that, but I don't see how "leaves the area" is any different to "arrives at Z", where Z is set to the entry point for Part 2? Part 1 hadn't arrived at Z, yet Part 2 still spawned regardless.
Z should be set for Part1, not Part 2.

See http://simsig.co.uk/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=usertrack:ttuse:ttrules

I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
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How do I... 21/11/2009 at 18:16 #4323
jdtech
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Yes indeed, but seeing as it is the same location, it doesn't matter. The location I used was Brockenhurst, which was Train 1's exit point, and Train 2's entry point.

It does appear that you can't use entry points for this rule, which is a slight problem. The rule I really need is "X must not appear until at least x minutes after Y leaves the area."

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How do I... 21/11/2009 at 18:32 #4325
AndyG
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The time in the rule is only an extra restriction on Part2's entry time.
EG If Pt1 due to leave area at 1000, Pt2 due to enter at 1100 after a 10 min layover at external destination, then set rule as "Pt2 must not enter until 55 mins after Pt1 leaves the area."
Then if P1 is on time or up to 5 mins late, Pt2 will enter at due time; if Pt1 is more than 5 late, it should delay Pt2. If Pt1 doesn't run, it never leaves the area so Pt2 shouldn't run.

I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
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How do I... 21/11/2009 at 18:48 #4329
jdtech
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I don't have "Pt2 must not enter until xx mins after Pt1 leaves the area" rule available though? This is exactly the rule I need!

I have tried this rule: "2B87 must appear 5 minutes after 2B02 leaves the area", whereby 2B87 is booked to enter at 05:05 and 2B02 is booked to leave at 04:56.

If 2B02 runs to time and leaves at around 04:54, 2B87 doesn't appear at 05:01 like you may expect, but it doesn't appear at 05:05 either! It appears at 05:21, running some minutes late - this is with train delays switched off, and I've tried it several times with the same conclusion.

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How do I... 21/11/2009 at 18:52 #4330
AndyG
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my mistake, it "must APPear after Y leaves the area", 2nd rule in list
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
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How do I... 21/11/2009 at 19:08 #4331
jdtech
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Thanks for your help, I've just knocked up a test sim and it works perfectly - if the train is on time, the second train appears as booked. If the train is sufficiently late, the second train appears x minutes after the first one leaves.. I'm not sure why it isn't working on my proper timetable. I shall try rewriting all the rules from scratch to see if that makes any difference.
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How do I... 21/11/2009 at 19:15 #4332
jdtech
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On a different note, a more general question. Sometimes trains enter the area early, this is prototypical for freights and ECS, but not for passenger workings. I've never noticed a passenger working entering early - how does the sim work this out, from the first number of the TD e.g. 1xxx and 2xxx never enter early?
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How do I... 22/11/2009 at 00:12 #4356
Peter Bennet
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Basically Yes; also, in some Sims like SwinDid if the train type has XC (cross country) in its description it is more prone to delays than other trains. It does tend to be scenario specific so the more basic the scenario the less Sim induced disruption.

Peter

I can promise you this, if I didn’t pay the price for the things we both know I did do, I’m certainly not going to pay the price for the things I didn’t do. - Frank Underwood
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How do I... 22/11/2009 at 11:25 #4373
jdtech
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What I don't understand now is I have a train booked to enter at 04:31 - yet it only ever enters at 04:44! As regular as clockwork it enters 13 minutes late... everytime.

It is a Class 4, but surely the early/lateness should be more random than this! And I have Train Delays at "off"! There are no rules relating to it either.

I managed to sort out a similar problem with 2B87 but completely recreating it's schedule...

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How do I... 22/11/2009 at 11:39 #4374
Peter Bennet
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Ah, just thought have you had a look at this on timetable cleansing

Peter

I can promise you this, if I didn’t pay the price for the things we both know I did do, I’m certainly not going to pay the price for the things I didn’t do. - Frank Underwood
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How do I... 22/11/2009 at 11:47 #4376
jdtech
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Many thanks, that seems to have solved the problem!
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