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Trains to High Marnham / Mansfield Colliery

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Trains to High Marnham / Mansfield Colliery 06/02/2012 at 19:00 #28958
richardb58050
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Evening all, I'm looking at writing a timetable loosely based on the 1980s for the Worksop sim, I am having trouble finding out how I would send trains into Mansfield Colliery and also down to High Marnham / Ollerton both of which were both open in the 1980s.

Thanks in advance

Richard

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Re: Trains to High Marnham / Mansfield Colliery 06/02/2012 at 19:10 #28961
jc92
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" said:
Evening all, I'm looking at writing a timetable loosely based on the 1980s for the Worksop sim, I am having trouble finding out how I would send trains into Mansfield Colliery and also down to High Marnham / Ollerton both of which were both open in the 1980s.

Thanks in advance

Richard
some timing points are missing (you cant access rufford stacking or bilsthorpe), as is mansfield concentration sidings

the line to high marnham is completely missing and so cant be used (you could seed stuff from thoresby)

also missing are thurcroft and dinnington collierys, and kiveton park isnt usable as an entrance location

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Re: Trains to High Marnham / Mansfield Colliery 11/02/2012 at 14:26 #29293
58050
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Richard, if you choose to go ahead with this timetable, may I suggest a mid - late 1980s timetable. I looked at writing timetable for Worksop around the early - mid 1980s & after receiving a long letter from a close friend of mine who was a driver at Barrow Hill & Worksop I decided it was a bit complicated in the way the 'Trip workings' between Worskop & the local collieries opeated during that period. briefly he explained that the MGR sets were split in Worksop Down Yard & there was 3 sets of Cl.08s working top & tail between Worksop Down Yard & the local collieries each with about 15 MGR wagons all loose coupled. These were tripped throughout the day & night between Worksop & the local collieries. The MGR sets were then subsequently coupled together in the Up Yard where the mainline loco either an 'SSC' fitted Cl.47/3, Cl.56 or a pair of Cl.20s also 'SSC' fitted were attached for the whole ensemble to work forward to the power station such as West Burton, Cottam or High Marnham to name a few for dis-charging. On return to Worksop the trains would then be split again & the Cl.08s would then top & tail parts of the trains as described above to the local collieries for loading. This method of working would be quite complex in working out the timings as they are not shown in the WTTs. Maybe in the relevant 'Trip Notices' of that period & these puiblications aren't that easy to obtain these days. Hope this helps.
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Trains to High Marnham / Mansfield Colliery 14/08/2019 at 19:03 #120039
Phil-jmw
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jc92 in post 28961 said:
" said:
Evening all, I'm looking at writing a timetable loosely based on the 1980s for the Worksop sim, I am having trouble finding out how I would send trains into Mansfield Colliery and also down to High Marnham / Ollerton both of which were both open in the 1980s.

Thanks in advance

Richard
some timing points are missing (you cant access rufford stacking or bilsthorpe), as is mansfield concentration sidings

the line to high marnham is completely missing and so cant be used (you could seed stuff from thoresby)

also missing are thurcroft and dinnington collierys, and kiveton park isnt usable as an entrance location
Looking at this sim for the first time in a few years earlier today, I noticed that in addition to Dinnington and Thurcroft collieries being missing, so are Shirebrook and Creswell collieries, and Whitwell quarry.

Phil.

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Trains to High Marnham / Mansfield Colliery 14/08/2019 at 21:12 #120045
jc92
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and shireoaks Colliery.
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Trains to High Marnham / Mansfield Colliery 15/08/2019 at 00:12 #120050
Phil-jmw
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jc92 in post 120045 said:
and shireoaks Colliery.
I think Shireoaks had gone by 1990 Joe. I don't recall reporting trains in or out of there.

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Trains to High Marnham / Mansfield Colliery 15/08/2019 at 16:20 #120060
GeoffM
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Phil-jmw in post 120050 said:
jc92 in post 120045 said:
and shireoaks Colliery.
I think Shireoaks had gone by 1990 Joe. I don't recall reporting trains in or out of there.
Right on the ball, Phil - though the article doesn't state when rail service ceased or the rail link was disconnected.

The developer for Worksop no longer develops simulations for SimSig, but we're working on getting maintenance/support for the sim.

SimSig Boss
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The following user said thank you: Phil-jmw
Trains to High Marnham / Mansfield Colliery 15/08/2019 at 19:39 #120064
Phil-jmw
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GeoffM in post 120060 said:
Phil-jmw in post 120050 said:
jc92 in post 120045 said:
and shireoaks Colliery.
I think Shireoaks had gone by 1990 Joe. I don't recall reporting trains in or out of there.
Right on the ball, Phil - though the article doesn't state when rail service ceased or the rail link was disconnected.

The developer for Worksop no longer develops simulations for SimSig, but we're working on getting maintenance/support for the sim.
Thanks for that reply Geoff, it goes some way to answering a question I was going to post yesterday, namely were there any plans to upgrade Worksop to be a loader sim, and to make the improvements and alterations necessary to allow heritage TT's to be written with some accuracy.

One glaring omission in the 1990 era is the route to High Marnham not going beyond Thoresby, which means not being able to include all the traffic ffrom Ollerton Colliery and the traffic from Bevercotes Colliery to High Marnham Power Station. The Robin Hood passenger service was still a few years away in 1990, but the plethora of coal trains in the area then, along with light engine movements between the depots at Barrow Hill, Shirebrook and Worksop (+ moves to Toton for exam and returning therefrom) would keep the Worksop simsigger busy. They certainly kept me busy in 1990, being part of the team doing the TOPS reporting for all of the area covered by the sim.

Phil.

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Trains to High Marnham / Mansfield Colliery 15/08/2019 at 21:39 #120067
58050
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When I worked at Nott'm ROC in the mid 1990s MGR trains were still running to High Marnham Power Station with Worksop drivers. You'd be surprised what was still in use then.
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Trains to High Marnham / Mansfield Colliery 16/08/2019 at 00:47 #120073
Phil-jmw
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58050 in post 120067 said:
When I worked at Nott'm ROC in the mid 1990s MGR trains were still running to High Marnham Power Station with Worksop drivers. You'd be surprised what was still in use then.
Yes there was still a fair amount of coal traffic about then.

If you worked in Furlong House Pascal, you must've worked with a fair few of the people I worked with in 1990.

Last edited: 16/08/2019 at 00:55 by Phil-jmw
Reason: None given

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Trains to High Marnham / Mansfield Colliery 16/08/2019 at 01:31 #120074
Tempest Malice
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58050 in post 120067 said:
When I worked at Nott'm ROC in the mid 1990s MGR trains were still running to High Marnham Power Station with Worksop drivers. You'd be surprised what was still in use then.
I assume "ROC" meant something different in the mid 90's to NR's current use of the acronym?

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Trains to High Marnham / Mansfield Colliery 16/08/2019 at 03:59 #120075
Phil-jmw
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Tempest Malice in post 120074 said:
58050 in post 120067 said:
When I worked at Nott'm ROC in the mid 1990s MGR trains were still running to High Marnham Power Station with Worksop drivers. You'd be surprised what was still in use then.
I assume "ROC" meant something different in the mid 90's to NR's current use of the acronym?
Back then it was AOC, Area Operations Centre.

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Trains to High Marnham / Mansfield Colliery 16/08/2019 at 09:38 #120076
58050
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When Stratford Roc closed in 1995 we were moved under redundancy arragements to Nottingham(Furlong House) to take up positions in the new Nottingham Regional Operations Centre(ROC) in Furlong House (Mainline Freight). I went there as Resources Manager dealing with the alocation of power to services throughout the whole of the Mainline Freight area. Which covered all of the East Midlands pits along with the whole of the South East of the country & Wessex. As you say Phil there was an alot of MGR traffic running to & from the various pits to all the power stations such as High Marnham, West Burton, Cottam, Ratcliffe, Ironbridge, Rugeley & Didcot. In fact the coal traffic actually increased to a peak in around beyond 2001. I ended up on the power desk in the CSDC in Doncaster covering the Yorkshire/Humberside & East Midlands which was the busiest desk out of the 5 loco control power desks there, with over 600 allocations within a 24 hour period due to the high density of MGR traffic between pits, power station & back to pits. Around the mid 1990s there were around 12 Cl.58 locos along with 4 Cl.60 locos out based at Worksop dealing with MGR traffic on a daily basis. The difference between AOC & ROC is that one covered an area whereas the other dealt with a whole region. Basically when BR was privatised the structure of the former BR REgional Control changed as the seperate companies formed there own versions of the former BR Regional Control offices until 1997 when we were all moved into the CSDC at Doncaster.
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Trains to High Marnham / Mansfield Colliery 16/08/2019 at 17:03 #120078
Phil-jmw
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58050 in post 120076 said:
When Stratford Roc closed in 1995 we were moved under redundancy arragements to Nottingham(Furlong House) to take up positions in the new Nottingham Regional Operations Centre(ROC) in Furlong House (Mainline Freight). I went there as Resources Manager dealing with the alocation of power to services throughout the whole of the Mainline Freight area. Which covered all of the East Midlands pits along with the whole of the South East of the country & Wessex. As you say Phil there was an alot of MGR traffic running to & from the various pits to all the power stations such as High Marnham, West Burton, Cottam, Ratcliffe, Ironbridge, Rugeley & Didcot. In fact the coal traffic actually increased to a peak in around beyond 2001. I ended up on the power desk in the CSDC in Doncaster covering the Yorkshire/Humberside & East Midlands which was the busiest desk out of the 5 loco control power desks there, with over 600 allocations within a 24 hour period due to the high density of MGR traffic between pits, power station & back to pits. Around the mid 1990s there were around 12 Cl.58 locos along with 4 Cl.60 locos out based at Worksop dealing with MGR traffic on a daily basis. The difference between AOC & ROC is that one covered an area whereas the other dealt with a whole region. Basically when BR was privatised the structure of the former BR REgional Control changed as the seperate companies formed there own versions of the former BR Regional Control offices until 1997 when we were all moved into the CSDC at Doncaster.
I stand corrected Pascal. I didn't realise it had expanded in the way you describe from AOC to ROC. You also told me something else I didn't know, which is that the coal traffic actually increased up to 2001. I always thought it had been in a slow but steady decline since the 1980's. There were less pits to cover in Nottingham TOPS in 1990 than there had been 5 years previously covered by Worksop, Shirebrook and Toton TOPS offices, and the number of Vale of Trent power stations was also in decline during the 1990's, with the closure of Castle Donington, Willington, Drakelow and Staythorpe.

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Trains to High Marnham / Mansfield Colliery 16/08/2019 at 18:49 #120081
58050
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Phil-jmw in post 120078 said:
58050 in post 120076 said:
When Stratford Roc closed in 1995 we were moved under redundancy arragements to Nottingham(Furlong House) to take up positions in the new Nottingham Regional Operations Centre(ROC) in Furlong House (Mainline Freight). I went there as Resources Manager dealing with the alocation of power to services throughout the whole of the Mainline Freight area. Which covered all of the East Midlands pits along with the whole of the South East of the country & Wessex. As you say Phil there was an alot of MGR traffic running to & from the various pits to all the power stations such as High Marnham, West Burton, Cottam, Ratcliffe, Ironbridge, Rugeley & Didcot. In fact the coal traffic actually increased to a peak in around beyond 2001. I ended up on the power desk in the CSDC in Doncaster covering the Yorkshire/Humberside & East Midlands which was the busiest desk out of the 5 loco control power desks there, with over 600 allocations within a 24 hour period due to the high density of MGR traffic between pits, power station & back to pits. Around the mid 1990s there were around 12 Cl.58 locos along with 4 Cl.60 locos out based at Worksop dealing with MGR traffic on a daily basis. The difference between AOC & ROC is that one covered an area whereas the other dealt with a whole region. Basically when BR was privatised the structure of the former BR REgional Control changed as the seperate companies formed there own versions of the former BR Regional Control offices until 1997 when we were all moved into the CSDC at Doncaster.
I stand corrected Pascal. I didn't realise it had expanded in the way you describe from AOC to ROC. You also told me something else I didn't know, which is that the coal traffic actually increased up to 2001. I always thought it had been in a slow but steady decline since the 1980's. There were less pits to cover in Nottingham TOPS in 1990 than there had been 5 years previously covered by Worksop, Shirebrook and Toton TOPS offices, and the number of Vale of Trent power stations was also in decline during the 1990's, with the closure of Castle Donington, Willington, Drakelow and Staythorpe.
ESI Coal traffic conveyed in MGR trains increased once the freight companies were formed. But when EWS came about it increased significantly & only started to decline as power stations closed & power stations started burning other products instead of coal. I remembered back in 1998 going to Clay Cross South Jn to photograph some MGR trains that originated from Liverpool Bulk Terminal/Gladstone Docks conveying ESI Coal to West Burton & Cottam power stations which as you would know wasn't a regular flow for MGR trains prior to then. Alot of coal was moved from Hunterstoin to Ratcliffe PS too running via the S&C. When I went to Bescot in 2001 Freightliner Heavy Haul coal trains used to run round in the Down Local Sdgs at Bescot as well as EWS coal trains oing to Ironbridge as well as Rugeley power stations. ESI Coal traffic from Gladstone Dock tenderd to go to Fiddlers Ferry power station which were all diagrammed to be worked by Cl.60 locos as they were the only engines we had that could handle the load of 45 loaded MGR wagons. I remember one day in 1998 & I was covering the North West & Scotland power desk & due to a Cl.60 failing & having no replacement I made the decision to use a Cl.66, but no one knew what a Cl.66 was capable of hauling in terms of the number of wagons from Gladstone Dock up the steep bank at Strand Road. After a discussion with the traction maintenance control & the freight train running controller for the area we came to an agreement that we'd send the Cl.66 with 40 MGR wagons.. We advised Network Rail who sent a team of people to Edge Hill to see if the train would get up the bank as well as some of the Regional Managers staff based at Warrington. Needless to say the Cl.66 hauled the 40 loaded MGR wagons no problem & from that day the loading for Cl.66 locos from Gladstone Dock was 40 MGR wagons & that acted as the 'next' best if the North West were short of Cl.60 locos for the MGR trains.

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