Waiting for correct route to be set

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Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 12:24 #29935
maxand
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1637 posts
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2D88 is delayed at Willesden for 15 minutes, and J204 and several other trains are banked up behind it.

My plan was to route J204 into Willesden siding, then reverse it from 18 to 14, reverse again, then route to 27 and then 31.

There's nothing I can do to induce J204 to go into the siding. I tried abandoning the timetable, trying reversing back and forth, but each time I see "Waiting for correct route to be set".

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As you can see, its timetable has been abandoned. Is there a solution? It's not the fault of the interlocking, since I've already set the route. I can't believe this would happen in real life - a phone call or two would have sorted this out long ago.

This has happened on other occasions in other sims, so it must be familiar to all of you by now.

Thanks for any assistance.

(added)
Idiotic of me to even consider it. "The bay at Willesden Junction is only 67 metres long (87 metres when lengthened)." J204 is 112 m, so even after cancelling the set route and signalling it in, this is the result.



To add insult to injury, J204 has now run out of valid track.

FAIL.

Conclusion:
Try cancelling the route, then signalling driver directly.
Try reading the manual, particularly platform lengths.
Last edited: 25/02/2012 at 12:51 by maxand
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 12:29 #29936
GoodbyeMrFish
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148 posts 		Passenger trains arnt allowed to be shunted as if it were an ecs movement. youll have to wait and work around the problem.
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 12:33 #29937
Steamer
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3922 posts 		Willesden Junction bay platform is only 67 meters long (87m if the lengthened option was selected on start-up). The tube train driver knows how long the platform is and that his train will not fit in (tube trains are 112m long).
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Last edited: 25/02/2012 at 12:34 by Steamer
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 12:42 #29939
maxand
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1637 posts 		Thanks Steamer, you posted while I was adding to my original post. Great minds now think alike.

Thanks MrFish, wasn't aware of that.

Pity it wasn't a Class 2 train, only 61m, would have fitted in there nicely. Passengers all gone to sleep waiting for the train to move, I could have passed it off as ECS, though running out of valid track would have woken them up again.

However, I'd still like to ask my original question again: why do I still get "Waiting for correct route to be set" when the timetable has been abandoned, therefore there can't be any such thing as a correct route?
Last edited: 25/02/2012 at 12:53 by maxand
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 13:05 #29944
Firefly
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521 posts 		Quote:
However, I'd still like to ask my original question again: why do I still get "Waiting for correct route to be set" when the timetable has been abandoned, therefore there can't be any such thing as a correct route?
The driver knows where he is allowed to go and knows he's not allowed to take his train into that siding. (Probably doesn't have a 4th Rail fitted)

I think you're trying too hard. In reality no signaller would dream of working around this problem. Make a cuppa, what for 2D88 to sort itself out and then pick things up as best you can once things are running again.

WE DO NOT SHUNT PASSENGER TRAINS
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 13:12 #29948
maxand
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1637 posts 		Quote:
WE DO NOT SHUNT PASSENGER TRAINS
Does that also forbid using crossovers to route passenger trains around obstacles using "wrong lines"?

I wonder, can "Waiting for correct route to be set" also mean "SimSig detected an attempt to shunt a train of Class 1, 2 or 3 and this is not permitted"?
Last edited: 25/02/2012 at 13:17 by maxand
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 13:20 #29949
Stephen Fulcher
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2025 posts 		Yes, that would be banned too.

There may be exceptional circumstances where such things might be considered, but the hastle of clipping all the points and appointing a pilotman for Single Line Working etc, would often mean that nobody would bother - certainly not for a short delay like you have here.
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 13:21 #29950
GoodbyeMrFish
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148 posts 		I think thats ok as long as, The line your using for avoiding isnt a goods only line, has the right power, like your diverting an electric passenger train onto a line with no power etc etc. Also it must be signalled for passenger use. So i think as long as you arnt using shunt signals for passenger trains and your not sending a passenger train down a goods line youll be alright.
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 13:27 #29952
Jan
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889 posts 		After conducting a small experiment, it seems that the wrong route code simply not only takes the timetable into account, but also the train length. So if you try routing any train longer than 70 m (90 m with platform lengthening) into the bay platform, you'll get the wrong route call, no matter what the timetable is saying.
As for your situation, if anything is blocking the line between Queens Park and Willesden Junction for an extended amount of time, the best way to prevent trains piling up is to insert SHUT into the berth of Signal 13, i.e. the entry point for Bakerloo line trains. This effectively simulates you phoning up the Bakerloo line controller, and telling him that you've got problems and he should turn all trains around at Queens Park.
Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 13:29 #29953
GoodbyeMrFish
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148 posts 		Also on a side note, Most sims will be different to certain extent, Its worth reading the sim manuals, because they will contain the local rules and regs, platforming, speed limits etc. Also what types of trains can run on certain lines etc.
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 13:31 #29954
mfcooper
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707 posts 		I suspect that the bay platform is 3rd rail only, and that wrong route code also looks at traction type. Therefore, the underground trains that require 4th Rail will call up with wrong route too. However, as these trains are all longer than the maximum platform length of approx. 90 meters, then we go back to Jan's post...
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 13:35 #29955
Stephen Fulcher
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2025 posts 		GoodbyeMrFish, I assumed "wrong line" in the original post to mean using unsignalled moves over crossovers onto lines which were normally signalled in the other direction - ie an Up train being shunted onto the Down line in order to pass an obstruction on the Up line itself. If a line were signalled as a bidirectional line for passenger use then there is no reason why it could not be used.

Jan, SimSig drivers do not generally challenge a route due to their train being too long as far as I can recall, they will simply draw to the relevant signal or stop block at the end of the section to which they have been signalled and "allow" their rear end to stand foul on the points. I cannot see on the Wiki anywhere that mentions it, but the most likely conclusion I can come to is that the bay is not fitted with LUL style Fourth Rail DC electrification equipment.
Last edited: 25/02/2012 at 13:36 by Stephen Fulcher
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 13:42 #29957
Danny252
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1461 posts 		" said:
I suspect that the bay platform is 3rd rail only
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33109/6144994293/

Nope, 4th rail's there.
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 13:47 #29958
Stephen Fulcher
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2025 posts 		That rules out my conclusion then.

Only other possibility I can think of is that there may be some form of track circuit control preventing the signal clearing for that route if the train is too long to fit in the bay, or possibly a sim bug, but the latter is unlikely.

Possibly one for the Developer, who will know for certain why it happens.
Last edited: 25/02/2012 at 13:48 by Stephen Fulcher
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 14:03 #29962
Jan
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889 posts 		As I said, I simply conducted a little experiment. I created a 3rd rail EMU with a length of 120 m, abandoned its timetable after entering, and tried to route it into the bay platform, which obviously resulted in the driver calling in. I then replaced the signal, and gradually shortened the train using the 'Extreme Measures' option. Once I was down to 70 m, the driver happily accepted the route, so just to make sure, I ran another train with 71 m, which duly phoned in. With the extended bay, the same thing happens at 90 m.
So my conclusion is that the wrong route code must be looking at the train's length.
Of course you do have a point that this feature isn't used very often, and most of the time the simulated drivers won't care whether they overhang the platform/siding/... or not, but apparently it's not impossible.
Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
Last edited: 25/02/2012 at 14:03 by Jan
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 15:50 #29973
Firefly
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521 posts 		Quote:
Does that also forbid using crossovers to route passenger trains around obstacles using "wrong lines"?
As Stephen has said, if there is a main signal that can route the train in that direction using a Main aspect and the line is a passenger line then you can do it.

If you have to talk by, use a shunt route, use a goods line or use a siding then it is not allowed.

FF
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 19:41 #30003
Peter Bennet
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5360 posts 		I've left stations on GPL signals.

Stevenage Platform 1 (US) to the DF (person hit by train south thereof so they shoved the train back North). And Biggleswade P4 (DS) to the US planned engineering works-shoving trains back south.

Peter
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 19:46 #30004
jc92
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3629 posts 		" said:
I've left stations on GPL signals.

Stevenage Platform 1 (US) to the DF (person hit by train south thereof so they shoved the train back North). And Biggleswade P4 (DS) to the US planned engineering works-shoving trains back south.

Peter
trains run out of platform 6 at sheffield, northbound, when the diversions via old road are on, all done via GPLs subject to the special instructions provided
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 25/02/2012 at 20:40 #30008
BoxBoyKit
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166 posts 		As jc92 and Mr Bennet have said, signalling via GPLs is allowed, but in extreme circumstances, and most likely only then with the authority of the Ops Manager (or other suitable person), but as also said doing it simply because a train has been delayed is not likely to get authority.
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 26/02/2012 at 00:32 #30016
maxand
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1637 posts 		GPL = Ground Position Light = shunt signal. (added to Glossary)

This clears it up for me, thanks to all who replied.

So, passenger trains (classes 1 to 3) are not permitted to be shunted unless they are empty (Empty Coaching Stock or ECS). I had wondered why it seemed necessary to assign a special description to any train that has to reverse at Harrow siding while it is in the siding, e.g., J201-7 terminates at Harrow & Wealdstone (emptying its passengers), becoming K201-8 to enter the siding as ECS since Class 5 descriptions aren't used for LU ECS, then changes to K201-9 once it's out of the siding. Now I understand - SimSig must only let in the empty versions of these trains by their TDs

Also a check of all trains exiting to Kensal Green (searching for WatWill, WatKenG and EusKenG in the TT) shows that all the ones using Willesden siding (P2) are class 5 ECS. The only Class 2 trains exiting there (WillNll) use P1 and not P2.
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 26/02/2012 at 00:37 #30017
UKTrainMan
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1803 posts 		Passenger train classes are only Class 1 and Class 2 (and Class 9, if you're basically a glorified London Overground train...). Class 3 is "Freight train which can run at more than 75 mph, parcels train, or empty coaching stock train if specially authorised", and so would be permitted to be shunted.
Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for.
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 26/02/2012 at 00:44 #30019
Firefly
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521 posts 		Quote:
I've left stations on GPL signals.

Stevenage Platform 1 (US) to the DF (person hit by train south thereof so they shoved the train back North). And Biggleswade P4 (DS) to the US planned engineering works-shoving trains back south
Ok, I admit it can be done in extreme circumstances or when pre-planned icw single line working or diversions. In all cases it would require special authorisation.
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 26/02/2012 at 01:11 #30021
maxand
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1637 posts 		Quote:
Passenger train classes are only Class 1 and Class 2 (and Class 9, if you're basically a glorified London Overground train...). Class 3 is "Freight train which can run at more than 75 mph, parcels train, or empty coaching stock train if specially authorised", and so would be permitted to be shunted.
Oops! Apologies.
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 26/02/2012 at 10:06 #30032
postal
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5190 posts 		" said:
Quote:
Passenger train classes are only Class 1 and Class 2 (and Class 9, if you're basically a glorified London Overground train...). Class 3 is "Freight train which can run at more than 75 mph, parcels train, or empty coaching stock train if specially authorised", and so would be permitted to be shunted.
Oops! Apologies.
You will also find some SimSig TTs written to cover the period when Virgin Cross-Country were introducing their Voyagers. The bearded one wanted to ensure that his new toys got priority over mere mortals so a lot of his trains which were running as Class 1 services were TT'd as Class 9 and this is reflected in the SimSig TTs.
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Last edited: 26/02/2012 at 10:06 by postal
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Re: Waiting for correct route to be set 06/03/2012 at 02:11 #30377
clive
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2738 posts 		Class 9 was also used for Eurostars when they ran out of Waterloo, because of the special immigration issues (so you couldn't just detrain them anywhere). The TD matched the train number, so train 9123 had TD 9I23. I don't know if this is still the case now they run on HS1 throughout.
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