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| St. Pancras 18/03/2012 at 18:33 #30739 | |
jc92
3629 posts 
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could the original power box at St. Pancras be done as a standalone sim (i dont beleive its covered in any of the west hampstead eras) in a similar vein t lime street? back then it was much busier than the current setup "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Last edited: 18/03/2012 at 18:35 by jc92 Log in to reply |
| Re: St. Pancras 19/03/2012 at 11:22 #30750 | |
kbarber
1711 posts |
It was an OCS panel... interesting little job, with a non-standard train describer from Dock Junction. IIRC the describer looked a bit like the old ones at Lime Street, though my memory doesn't have much more detail than those pics  There was some very tight & complex pointwork in the throat and all the points were electropneumatic, which made them very fast indeed. It was possible to overset one route with a conflicting route still locked in, which could help the working at busy times (the route for the "banker" of a departing train - although there was in fact no banking - could be called before the departing train had fully cleared the platform, and provided the switch for the train had been normalised the route for the loco would set as soon as the TC over the last set of affected points cleared).There were also several alternative routes to the higher-numbered platforms, allowing for long and short trains (and the loco of a long one would stand in advance of the platform starter, for which there was special locking and special indications ont he signal). Being OCS there weren't route selection buttons like Euston, but a separate switch for each possible route; this led to a rather good story but I'm afraid it would breach forum rules to tell it... When Dock Junction was abolished (July '79) the describer was taken out of use and trains were described by block bell to Engine Shed Jc until closure. At some point the Westinghouse indication panel was replaced by a LMR-style diagram with additional white lights for the route lights. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: jc92 |
| Re: St. Pancras 19/03/2012 at 14:49 #30755 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
Sounds like it would be a very interesting sim.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Re: St. Pancras 19/03/2012 at 16:53 #30762 | |
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handle
42 posts |
who makes the simulators?
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| Re: St. Pancras 19/03/2012 at 16:55 #30763 | |
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mfcooper
707 posts |
From the SimSig Wiki: Who are we? Last edited: 19/03/2012 at 16:57 by mfcooper Log in to reply |
| Re: St. Pancras 20/03/2012 at 23:49 #30819 | |
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john_s
31 posts |
Thank you, kbarber, for the interesting information. Here is a diagram - I presume the final one, working to Engine Shed Junction: http://www.lymmobservatory.net/railways/sbdiagrams/st_pancras_q45.jpg (913 kb file).
Log in to reply The following user said thank you: jc92 |
| Re: St. Pancras 21/03/2012 at 10:22 #30821 | |
58050
2650 posts
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Very nice diagram John, thats how I remember St. pancras in the 1970s & 1980s growing up in Bedford used to go there most Saturdays when train spotting in London during the 1970s & when I was on the footplate there in the 1980s. However there is something missing off the diagram. Engine Siding No.2 which was a spur next to the large gasometers, big enough to hold a Cl.45 or cl.47, however locos stbled in there had to be manned at all times for fear of them running away. I suspect Cambridge Street F&I point came off the Carriage lines towards Dock junction. Nonetheless very good, thanks for that.
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| Re: St. Pancras 21/03/2012 at 10:35 #30822 | |
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kbarber
1711 posts |
" said:Thank you, kbarber, for the interesting information. Here is a diagram - I presume the final one, working to Engine Shed Junction: http://www.lymmobservatory.net/railways/sbdiagrams/st_pancras_q45.jpg (913 kb file). Now that's fascinating. I have a suspicion this is an intermediate layout. When Dock Junction first closed, the layout of St P throat was far more complex; there was clearly a lot of simplification before this diagram was installed. (A sudden thought - perhaps this diagram was the first LMR-pattern job, in connection with that simplification.) Later on, there were alterations to the running lines between Kentish Town & St Pancras; the 4-track layout shown here is clearly as it was at the time of Dock Junction's abolition. Unfortunately I don't have dates for the various stages of St Pancras/Kentish Town remodelling, apart from a couple of signalbox abolition dates (Dock Jc 15/7/79, Engine Shed Jc 6/12/81, unfortunately I don't have a date for St P but I believe it was the last abolition of the West Hampstead resignalling). The LMR-style diagram would've been ideal for stageworks - the diagram is drawn on a sticky-backed-plastic overlay which is applied to an aluminium sheet. Indication lamp holders are screwed directly into the aluminium, which provides the electrical return. Where stageworks are expected, all the lamp holders are installed from the start; as each stage takes place it's then simplicity itself to remove redundant lamps, pull off the old overlay, apply a new one and fit new lamps (it's easy to see if that's been done when a diagram is in use, as the unused lamp holders make slight bulges in the overlay). Thank you for sharing this John; as I visited once during this phase of the works, I suspect this is the layout that was in use at the time. Lot of memories... Log in to reply |
| Re: St. Pancras 21/03/2012 at 21:20 #30824 | |
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john_s
31 posts |
Glad you like the diagram (it took about 2 hours to scan, then paste the pieces together!). As you probably gathered, it is a paper office copy. I wondered about the style - it does look LMR-like, except that there are no curves. And if so, it's the only LMR one I've come across with route lights (although I understand there were a few others). Could someone please explain the east/west arrival departure arrangements? The labelling suggests one side of the station was used for arrivals and one side for departures, which implies empty stock was removed from one side, and put in the other side. I see [from the John Swift books] that the pre-1957 arrangements were similar. Log in to reply |
| Re: St. Pancras 22/03/2012 at 10:57 #30832 | |
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kbarber
1711 posts |
" said:Glad you like the diagram (it took about 2 hours to scan, then paste the pieces together!). As you probably gathered, it is a paper office copy. I wondered about the style - it does look LMR-like, except that there are no curves. And if so, it's the only LMR one I've come across with route lights (although I understand there were a few others). So far as I was aware, all straight lines was the LMR standard, certainly on diagrams they produced for mechanical boxes (and this St P one was standard with them, apart from the route lights). The original Westinghouse OCS indication panels used curves except at points, where there were straight lines/angles; IIRC the original St P panel looked like that (with a blue-grey background). Also, it was not unknown for a LMR overlay to be fitted to an LMS handpainted (white-on-black) diagram in a mechanical box; in this case the overlay would reproduce the curves of the original but in multiple colours on the off-white background. (Acton Wells was certainly like that when I signed it, back in '79; I have an idea some boxes between Finchley Road and Hendon may have been likewise.) " said: Could someone please explain the east/west arrival departure arrangements? The labelling suggests one side of the station was used for arrivals and one side for departures, which implies empty stock was removed from one side, and put in the other side. I see [from the John Swift books] that the pre-1957 arrangements were similar.The 1957 resignalling broadly retained the old layout as depicted in Swift; the panel took on the work of Cambridge Street as well as St Pancras Jc and St Pancras Stn. That layout, of course, was put down in the days when an incoming train would always go ECS to sidings for servicing and every outgoing train would be formed by ECS in. By latter days the names were purely nominal, with 6 & 7 - and possibly 5 as well - being used for the longest trains both arriving and departing; there was provision in the signalling & locking for trains to stand with their locos ahead of the departure signals on that side of the station (I don't remember whether it was the same on the lower-numbered platforms). Log in to reply |
