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1979-1980 timetable

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1979-1980 timetable 16/01/2013 at 13:18 #40628
58050
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All of the Kingmoor Yard trips worked by Cl.08s are booked through the station with the exception of 9L13 which runs via Rome Street Jn. The bext score Your 78% is a good score, it is the same as I got when I first completed the timetable from start to finish.
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1979-1980 timetable 17/01/2013 at 16:47 #40640
postal
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" said:
All of the Kingmoor Yard trips worked by Cl.08s are booked through the station with the exception of 9L13 which runs via Rome Street Jn. The bext score Your 78% is a good score, it is the same as I got when I first completed the timetable from start to finish.
Although the signaller is presumably at liberty to route the Yard trips via Rome St if operational circumstances demand. You have to abandon the TT then reinstate it but it does help to keep things moving.

"If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert saying it can't be done." - Peter Ustinov (1921 - 2004) English actor & author
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1979-1980 timetable 17/01/2013 at 17:04 #40641
58050
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Indeed John, the signaller can if he so wishes. Also all trains in this timetable that don't have a booked platform at Carlisle, generally trains taken from the STN(Special Traffic Notice) which means it up to the signaller which platform is best to put the train into.. The one advantage however of sending the Kingmoor trips worked by Cl.08 through the station is that you have more options of recessing them in Sdgs. A or 2, or even use the 2 through centre roads once they become clear, whereas sending them viua Rome Street there are no bolt holes to put them in. The more times you play the timetable the better the fell you will get for the various pilot operated trips.
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1979-1980 timetable 17/01/2013 at 19:52 #40643
lazzer
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In real life, back in the day when the goods lines were still there, would a driver question such a move if he was routed via Rome Street instead of the station, or vice versa?

I ask because I was wondering why it wasn't coded into the sim.

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1979-1980 timetable 17/01/2013 at 20:01 #40646
58050
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No they wouldn't. I suspect that the Kingmoor trippers worked by Cl.08s would have been driven by Kingmoor men & as a result would sign both routes. Furthermore the chances are that the drivers on these jobs were as we called them in railway circles 'green carded' men. They were medically restricted from driving trains on the main line & were only allowed to drive within a designated local area. Most depots had them. The drivers on these workings were never alone, they either had a guard travelling with them in the cab if the train had no brake van & in some cases a travelling shunter as well.
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1979-1980 timetable 17/01/2013 at 21:05 #40649
postal
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" said:
In real life, back in the day when the goods lines were still there, would a driver question such a move if he was routed via Rome Street instead of the station, or vice versa?

I ask because I was wondering why it wasn't coded into the sim.
I believe it is still on Tom's todo list!

"If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert saying it can't be done." - Peter Ustinov (1921 - 2004) English actor & author
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1979-1980 timetable 26/03/2013 at 00:03 #42720
Aurora
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Hi, I have a question. As I mentioned in the 'Track Weirdness At Fog Jct' thread, I'm currently playing this TT with Kingmoor Main Lines closed. I've got four trains in sim (3 at Carlisle Sdgs and 1 at Kingmoor Up Dep. Line) scheduled to run to the numbered Sidings below the Kingmoor Main Lines. However this destination can't be reached because of the closure so what should I do with these trains? Would Kingmoor Depot do?
Nil.
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1979-1980 timetable 26/03/2013 at 00:14 #42721
postal
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More likely the trains/locos would not be rostered to run out if they were unable to access the Up Yard and would not appear. I guess you will have to use the F2 - Extreme Measures - Remove Train route and take the hit to your points score. If the score is important to you, abandon the TTs for the trains and run them to anywhere where they will disappear off sim (maybe Kingmoor Depot for the trains in the Yard and Carlisle Yard for the loco in Kingmoor Depot).
"If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert saying it can't be done." - Peter Ustinov (1921 - 2004) English actor & author
Last edited: 26/03/2013 at 00:15 by postal
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1979-1980 timetable 26/03/2013 at 00:29 #42723
Aurora
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" said:
More likely the trains/locos would not be rostered to run out if they were unable to access the Up Yard and would not appear. I guess you will have to use the F2 - Extreme Measures - Remove Train route and take the hit to your points score. If the score is important to you, abandon the TTs for the trains and run them to anywhere where they will disappear off sim (maybe Kingmoor Depot for the trains in the Yard and Carlisle Yard for the loco in Kingmoor Depot).

Makes sense that the trains wouldn't be rostered to run. I'll remove them. I'm only at 35% anyway as of 11am on account of congestion around Carlisle Yard, Carlisle station and Upperby Jct.

Nil.
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1979-1980 timetable 26/03/2013 at 11:37 #42729
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Aurora the scenario you mention goes back to what I said in an earlier post. You can't really plat certain hertiage timetables with lines closed unless the timetable has been specifically written to take that into account & when I wroye this timetable I wrote it for all lines to be operating as normal. I don't write timetables whereby lines are blocked or anything else like that. In the real world line or station closures or blockages are kept to a minimum or a night when there is less traffic, except for instances where 'mother nature' decides to do its thing. You can by all means remove trains & as stated you would lose point, but I think if you play the Carlisle 79-80 timetable which is probably one of the hardest if not the hardest on SimSig to complete, you have enough to do without having the added hassle of line closures etc etc. Good luck to you doing it, but I think is it worth playing the timetable if you end up having to remove a number of trains because you made it impossible to get the trains to where they should go. In real life I suspect the traffic would would either be left in Kingmoor yard till the lines were re-opend or the traffic would be transfereed to another yard nearby such one of the smaller yards around Carlisle.
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1979-1980 timetable 22/10/2014 at 17:18 #65211
frankwball
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Having lost 79-80 timetable I have downloaded again v4.2. When I run it, it starts at 04.45 and warns me that TT is not compatible with 1980's layout. Indeed all trains are run through station whereas the timetable I lost made full use of Goods lines through Rome St. Has that TT been deleted? Where can I find TT that uses the goods lines which are still available in the sim
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1979-1980 timetable 22/10/2014 at 18:10 #65212
postal
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The TT that opens at 0445 is the Carlisle 15-10-2009 v1-61 (0445) timetable not the 79-80 v4.2. Uploaded in this message are the 2 v4.2 files for you.
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"If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert saying it can't be done." - Peter Ustinov (1921 - 2004) English actor & author
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1979-1980 timetable 22/10/2014 at 19:44 #65214
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Having lost this TT I downloaded again. ( v4.2 ) This now differs from the previous version, Starts at 04.45 not 00.00. More seriously it is now aligned to up to date layout with no Goods Line traffic via Rome St. Is there no longer a TT compatible with the 1980's layout
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1979-1980 timetable 22/10/2014 at 20:06 #65216
Steamer
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The 1979-1980 TT doesn't have an 0445 start- have you downloaded the two files Postal attached and copied them to C:\Program Files (x86)\SimSig\Carlisle ?

EDIT: Failing that, you could download and re-install the Carlisle simulation, which should restore the 1979-80 TT. You shouldn't lose any saved games.

Last edited: 22/10/2014 at 20:07 by Steamer
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1979-1980 timetable 08/02/2017 at 00:04 #92990
P*Funk
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I've decided to reply with my questions about this WTT here since its my first time playing it through (only tried briefly once last year). I assume I'm going to have lots of questions as its only 0200 and I've had plenty of struggles.

My first question is where are trains supposed to be routed when they're destined for "Carlisle Yard"? There's no label I can see for it. I successfully routed one into Kingmoor somewhere by trial and error but I haven't figured out the logic in the labeled destination and where its marked on the board.

Secondly I had the working 4S44 passing through Carlisle and destined for Lockerbie via Gretna Junction and it became stuck at the station with a "waiting for correct route to be set" label. I had routed it through platform 3 as it was the middle of the night and it instructed no bypass via the goods lines. In the end I had to get it to bypass Gretna to continue. I also tried routing it through Kingmoor as an experiment but instead of giving me the Down Goods line Kingmoor slotted it into the Down Recess Sidings. I'm overall confused why this train had so much trouble. It was running very late if that matters at all.

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1979-1980 timetable 08/02/2017 at 00:37 #92992
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"Carlisle Yard" is Kingmoor - you actually sent 4S44 that way by the sounds of it. It doesn't matter which line the yard accepts a train to; if it needs to reappear it will with a message saying "train re-entering on down goods" (I don't know if this is prototypical - I'm sure Pascal or Tom will have a view)

Sorry to ask a silly one - presume I'm correct in thinking you're playing the correct sim era?

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1979-1980 timetable 08/02/2017 at 12:16 #92998
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Yea, definitely the 80s timetable. I'm up to 06:27 and haven't had any major hiccups aside from handling all that Upperby congestion which is just by design. The only thing I've seen is that issue with trains terminating without leaving the board around the Wigton exit. Had to remove two trains as a result of it.

And just a suggestion to the people who do the manuals for this sim, adding a note that makes it clear Carlisle Yard means Kingmoor Yard would probably save a few people some headaches.

Last edited: 08/02/2017 at 12:18 by P*Funk
Reason: words

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1979-1980 timetable 08/02/2017 at 12:26 #93000
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Carlisloe Yard & Kingmoor Yard are the same place, however the names are really an era thing. Kingmoor Yard was the usual name for the place during the BR era. Since privatisation the name has changed to Carlisle Yard probably due to the fact that the yard that remains in use is a pale shadow of it's former namesake. That said many railway staff who worked in the industry back in the days of BR still refer to it as Kingmoor as opposed to Carlisle Yard. For me it will always be Kingmoor & not Carlisle Yard.
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1979-1980 timetable 08/02/2017 at 12:29 #93001
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Oh one other thing when Carlisle eventually gets released on loader along with the newer version of the Carlisle 1979-1980 timetable there are quite a number of significant changes to the timetable so don't get too used to the version you are playing.
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1979-1980 timetable 08/02/2017 at 15:43 #93004
Steamer
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P*Funk in post 92998 said:
Yea, definitely the 80s timetable. I'm up to 06:27 and haven't had any major hiccups aside from handling all that Upperby congestion which is just by design. The only thing I've seen is that issue with trains terminating without leaving the board around the Wigton exit. Had to remove two trains as a result of it.
You'll need to abandon the timetable of trains after they leave Dalston, otherwise they won't fall off the simulation. Known bug, should be fixed when the Loader version is released.

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1979-1980 timetable 12/02/2017 at 08:42 #93050
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Steamer in post 93004 said:
P*Funk in post 92998 said:
Yea, definitely the 80s timetable. I'm up to 06:27 and haven't had any major hiccups aside from handling all that Upperby congestion which is just by design. The only thing I've seen is that issue with trains terminating without leaving the board around the Wigton exit. Had to remove two trains as a result of it.
You'll need to abandon the timetable of trains after they leave Dalston, otherwise they won't fall off the simulation. Known bug, should be fixed when the Loader version is released.
I believe you can just shunt forward, no need to abandon timetable.

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1979-1980 timetable 16/02/2017 at 06:00 #93157
P*Funk
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Well that was quite an experience! I'm at 2300 and staring completion in the eye sitting at about 68% performance rating. Getting a hang on how the engine changes and run arounds at Carlisle station worked was quite a challenge but very satisfying. Easily my favourite WTT in simsig. Just enough to tax me as a single person running the whole panel and enough slack that it can be done without pausing constantly.

I look very much forward to the new version whenever it drops.

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1979-1980 timetable 17/02/2017 at 09:02 #93168
RainbowNines
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P*Funk in post 93157 said:
Well that was quite an experience! I'm at 2300 and staring completion in the eye sitting at about 68% performance rating. Getting a hang on how the engine changes and run arounds at Carlisle station worked was quite a challenge but very satisfying. Easily my favourite WTT in simsig. Just enough to tax me as a single person running the whole panel and enough slack that it can be done without pausing constantly.

I look very much forward to the new version whenever it drops.
I think your view is echoed by many of those who have played 79-80, a great example of Pascal's vast knowledge and close attention to detail. I recall he was dissatisfied with a number of things he couldn't get quite perfect. I've said all along if the updated version tops the current one it's really worth the wait!

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1979-1980 timetable 18/02/2017 at 14:15 #93187
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When the loader version of Carlisle gets released there will be a newer version of the 1979-1980 timetable. I wouldn't get too used to the current version as the new version is somewhat different. I personally haven't done alot of the changes to the new version other than obtaining the relevant Preston Division trip notice & the relevant passenger train marshaling book for the period. In effect there are some trip services that weren't in the original timetable that are now in plus some new workings that also were in the original timetable. All of the passenger & Parcels trains have full coaching stock listings as per the BR publications & that also includes the ECML diverted traffic. Also we have managed to establish hpw & where freight services entered & departed the yard heading south & Tom has had to make changes to the sim to take that into account. I've also added freight tagging to the trains I have the info on so users can see how they were ,arshaled. Some trains have ben deleted as well die to there being clashes on the single line to & from Anna & also having obtained the Conditional WTT for the GSW. The only 1 WTT which I haven't been able to get jold of since the timetable was originally released is the Conditional freight WTT covering Carlisle to Edinburgh, Mossend & Glasgow via the WCML, a;though we do have a 1977 copy of that WTT & as a result some of that info has been used. But the real expert omn this timetable is John(postal), he's diligently tested it that many times that I reckon he could do the new version blindfolded. The last I heard from him was that he needed to spend a day amending a couple of trains at Carlisle station after I sent him a scanned copy of the Carlisle station working book & he spotted a few things I'd obviously missed. The timetable AFAIK is pretty muchj with, but not heard frm Tom since Xmas time so can't really say anything about when the sim will be re-released with the new timetable. So apart from doing the odd here & there with the new version of this timetable the real credit needs to be pointed in John(postal)l) direction for all the time & effort he's put into this timetable which I suspect when released will take some beating & may well be the best BR era timetable written for a SimSig sim.
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1979-1980 timetable 18/02/2017 at 14:35 #93189
postal
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58050 in post 93187 said:
The last I heard from him was that he needed to spend a day amending a couple of trains at Carlisle station after I sent him a scanned copy of the Carlisle station working book & he spotted a few things I'd obviously missed.
I'm keeping my head down because I've been too busy with other things and still have that day's work to do. The unfortunate thing is that sight of the worker means I will also have to re-write some of the pilot moves and shunts. This will require a full 24 hour run through each of the 5 days of the TT after that is done to ensure that I've not made a mistake with any of the splits/joins/next workings.

"If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert saying it can't be done." - Peter Ustinov (1921 - 2004) English actor & author
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