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Crewe 1950's

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Crewe 1950's 03/04/2013 at 23:05 #43020
bugali
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over the last year i have made a "mock up" off the Crewe area in the 1950's. [this is not a request for a developer to make the mock up into a sim but to show fellow members on the forum what it would lock like as a sim] see attached a copy of the mock up, pleas note that this unfinished as i a'm still collecting the data from the swift series from http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/bookswift.html. also note that it is not in colour but if any one has got any good programs it would work in couler please let me now




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Crewe 1950's 04/04/2013 at 17:29 #43045
MJD
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Playing on PCrail
Mike.
Last edited: 04/04/2013 at 19:21 by MJD
Reason: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Removal of screenshot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Crewe 1950's 04/04/2013 at 18:24 #43052
northroad
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Hope the PC rail screenshot is not breaking any copyright by it being reproduced here

Geoff

Never apologise son, it's a sign of weakness (John Wayne)
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Crewe 1950's 04/04/2013 at 18:34 #43053
MJD
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" said:
Hope the PC rail screenshot is not breaking any copyright by it being reproduced here

Geoff
Screen shot is from me playing on my machine, so my photo.

Mike.
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Crewe 1950's 04/04/2013 at 18:56 #43055
Sacro
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" said:
" said:
Hope the PC rail screenshot is not breaking any copyright by it being reproduced here

Geoff
Screen shot is from me playing on my machine, so my photo.
Err, no, it's a screenshot, a derivative of copyrighted work, therefore not 'your photo'.

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Crewe 1950's 04/04/2013 at 18:57 #43056
Sacro
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" said:
Hope the PC rail screenshot is not breaking any copyright by it being reproduced here

Geoff
Ah yes, hope, the one way of avoiding copyright issues :dry:

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Crewe 1950's 04/04/2013 at 19:05 #43058
jc92
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a screenshot of a sim which is available to download for free? i appreciate copyright still applies but nonetheless if someone kicked up a stink over that and seriously attempted to have it removed would need to get a better life lol
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Crewe 1950's 04/04/2013 at 19:10 #43059
Danny252
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Many of those who are forever moaning about copyright on here should read up on Fair Use.
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Crewe 1950's 04/04/2013 at 19:42 #43061
Sacro
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" said:
Many of those who are forever moaning about copyright on here should read up on Fair Use.
Especially the bit where it says "United States copyright law" and "doctrine"

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Crewe 1950's 04/04/2013 at 20:35 #43065
northroad
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" said:
Many of those who are forever moaning about copyright on here should read up on Fair Use.
I was only passing a comment on what could be. Thanks for your curt response to which I neither like the tone or inference. Perhaps if some people on here were as keen to help others as much as what I have been then there would not be so much bickering

Geoff

Never apologise son, it's a sign of weakness (John Wayne)
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Crewe 1950's 04/04/2013 at 20:47 #43066
headshot119
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I'm sure "incidental inclusion" as well as "Critism and or news reporting" cover the screenshot being posted here, both of which don't contravene the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Crewe 1950's 04/04/2013 at 20:50 #43067
Danny252
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" said:
" said:
Many of those who are forever moaning about copyright on here should read up on Fair Use.
Especially the bit where it says "United States copyright law" and "doctrine"
Similar provisions are made in UK (and other countries'copyright law - otherwise sites such as Wikipedia would be unable to use screenshots of, say, Simsig.

Last edited: 04/04/2013 at 20:50 by Danny252
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Crewe 1950's 04/04/2013 at 21:07 #43068
Sacro
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" said:
" said:
" said:
Many of those who are forever moaning about copyright on here should read up on Fair Use.
Especially the bit where it says "United States copyright law" and "doctrine"
Similar provisions are made in UK (and other countries'copyright law - otherwise sites such as Wikipedia would be unable to use screenshots of, say, Simsig.
Any chance you could reference the provision in UK law, it's not one that I've ever noticed.

As for Wikipedia, one of the SimSig images is released into the Public Domain by someone who I don't believe has the ability to do that, and the other two are claiming that they can claim "fair use" as they are hosted on US servers, amongst other reasons.

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Crewe 1950's 05/04/2013 at 09:32 #43084
kbarber
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" said:
" said:
" said:
" said:
Many of those who are forever moaning about copyright on here should read up on Fair Use.
Especially the bit where it says "United States copyright law" and "doctrine"
Similar provisions are made in UK (and other countries'copyright law - otherwise sites such as Wikipedia would be unable to use screenshots of, say, Simsig.
Any chance you could reference the provision in UK law, it's not one that I've ever noticed.

As for Wikipedia, one of the SimSig images is released into the Public Domain by someone who I don't believe has the ability to do that, and the other two are claiming that they can claim "fair use" as they are hosted on US servers, amongst other reasons.
I could ask m'learned friend but I fear it'll become a 2-hour lecture on copyright. It will inevitably be a rich mix of statutory provision and case law (and not all the latter would be uncontroversial, I suspect).

If I understand what he says correctly about this sort of stuff, protection of computer programs is a rather vexed area of intellectual property. They don't seem to be patentable (in spite of the efforts of the US Judiciary to move in that direction). But copyright probably only applies strictly to the code itself (although copyright in the code is of course absolute). Whether it could be held that an image produced by a copyrighted program were itself copyright I don't know. It might depend on the purpose for which the code was written. But in practical terms it would be going to an awful lot of trouble on a complainant's part to get a judgement of infringement where the alleged infringement is of this nature. Which, at an even more pragmatic level, assumes PC Rail doesn't take the view that this is thoroughly good publicity and therefore decides to just ignore it.

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Crewe 1950's 05/04/2013 at 16:36 #43098
bugali
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MJD I have seen the PCrail sim, but what it lakes that my mock up has got is the yards and block.
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Crewe 1950's 05/04/2013 at 18:23 #43102
vontrapp
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This may help to clear things:
http://www.pcrail.co.uk/develop/files.htm
and this:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pc_rail/
Adrian

Last edited: 05/04/2013 at 18:30 by vontrapp
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Crewe 1950's 07/04/2013 at 15:08 #43145
northroad
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822 posts
" said:
Many of those who are forever moaning about copyright on here should read up on Fair Use.
Interesting link to copyright in the USA. Probably not the best link to refer to when trying to understand UK copyright laws though.

Geoff

Never apologise son, it's a sign of weakness (John Wayne)
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Crewe 1950's 07/04/2013 at 15:41 #43146
Danny252
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" said:
" said:
" said:
" said:
Many of those who are forever moaning about copyright on here should read up on Fair Use.
Especially the bit where it says "United States copyright law" and "doctrine"
Similar provisions are made in UK (and other countries'copyright law - otherwise sites such as Wikipedia would be unable to use screenshots of, say, Simsig.
Any chance you could reference the provision in UK law, it's not one that I've ever noticed.
As is linked in the Fair Use article:

>Fair dealing in United Kingdom law is a doctrine which provides an exception to United Kingdom copyright law, in cases where the copyright infringement is for the purposes of non-commercial research or study, criticism or review, or for the reporting of current events.

>Section 30(1) of the 1988 Act provides that the fair dealing exception is valid if the material is being copied for criticism of review. For it to apply, the infringer must be able to show that the dealing was for criticism or review, that the infringed work was previously made available to the public, that the dealing was fair, and that the dealing was accompanied by an acknowledgement.

"the dealing was for criticism or review" - in this case, critiquing the PCRail simulation as compared to the example "Simsig" version.
"the infringed work was previously made available to the public" - it's safe to say that PCRail simulations are public, seeing as anyone can buy them.
"the dealing was fair" - PCRail was not harmed in any way - if anything, it increased awareness of their product.
"the dealing was accompanied by an acknowledgement" - PCRail was indeed acknowledged.

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Crewe 1950's 07/04/2013 at 18:40 #43153
northroad
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822 posts
" said:
" said:
" said:
" said:
" said:
Many of those who are forever moaning about copyright on here should read up on Fair Use.
As is linked in the Fair Use article:

>Fair dealing in United Kingdom law is a doctrine which provides an exception to United Kingdom copyright law, in cases where the copyright infringement is for the purposes of non-commercial research or study, criticism or review, or for the reporting of current events.

>Section 30(1) of the 1988 Act provides that the fair dealing exception is valid if the material is being copied for criticism of review. For it to apply, the infringer must be able to show that the dealing was for criticism or review, that the infringed work was previously made available to the public, that the dealing was fair, and that the dealing was accompanied by an acknowledgement.

"the dealing was for criticism or review" - in this case, critiquing the PCRail simulation as compared to the example "Simsig" version.
"the infringed work was previously made available to the public" - it's safe to say that PCRail simulations are public, seeing as anyone can buy them.
"the dealing was fair" - PCRail was not harmed in any way - if anything, it increased awareness of their product.
"the dealing was accompanied by an acknowledgement" - PCRail was indeed acknowledged.
.


The quoting of certain parts and extracts of documents, rules and regulations etc. can always lead to the conclusion that you want to believe, or the point you want to try and prove. Thus the full document or text must always be read and understood fully to provide all the relevant facts. The only person who would be able to give a satisfactory conclusion to our discussion would be the person judging on a civil case if it were to be brought.
That being said if you read the web page http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/copyright_myths then that gives answers to certain mythical points raised.

Quote -"the dealing was for criticism or review" - in this case, critiquing the PCRail simulation as compared to the example "Simsig" version.- Unquote

I was not aware that Sim Sig had a version of Crewe.....do you know something that we don't?

Quote - "the infringed work was previously made available to the public" - it's safe to say that PCRail simulations are public, seeing as anyone can buy them. - Unquote

My above quoted web page from the copyright service explains that something may be available for public access but could still be copyrighted.

Quote - "the dealing was fair" - PCRail was not harmed in any way - if anything, it increased awareness of their product.- Unquote

I would agree with this being applicable to those with access to the Sim Sig forum pages.

Quote - "the dealing was accompanied by an acknowledgement" - PCRail was indeed acknowledged. - Unquote

True PC Rail was mentioned.

I think we should all acknowledge that none of the definitions contained in this thread conclusively prove what is right and what is wrong but it did provide some healthy discussion.

Geoff

Never apologise son, it's a sign of weakness (John Wayne)
Last edited: 07/04/2013 at 21:09 by northroad
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Crewe 1950's 07/04/2013 at 20:37 #43161
BarryM
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Geoff,

Just a note from an "oldie". I find that it is very hard to read/sort your reply when it is in "italics" as are the "quotes".

Barry

Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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