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Numbers vs Shift+Letters to jump to panel locations

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Numbers vs Shift+Letters to jump to panel locations 21/03/2014 at 03:23 #57507
maxand
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In some scrolly sims such as Westbury, pressing number keys e.g., from 1 to 7 "jump" the view from the extreme LH side of the panel to the extreme RH side of the panel. In other sims such as Brighton, pressing Shift+[letter] focuses the view on a (major) station or terminus, the first letter of which usually corresponds to the letter pressed, e.g., Shift+B moves the view to Brighton station.

Since real IECC panels are not scrollies, SimSig sim developers are free to adopt either system or any other system. The purpose of a scrolly as I understand it is to allow single players using single screens on a wide sim to navigate quicker than by other means. Although I have not played that many sims, I certainly find the number system easier than the Shift+letter system as the latter usually requires me to take one hand off the mouse to operate either the Shift key or the letter, then to replace my hand on the mouse, whereas number keys are easily reached with just one hand while the other remains on the mouse.

Although this is simply a matter of comfort, I urge sim developers to take this into consideration and opt for the number system as far as possible.

(Added) After one achieves basic familiarity with a sim it becomes as easy to mentally map the number range onto the panel (e.g., 1 for LH, 7 for RH and 4 in the middle) as it is to commit the letter key list to memory - easier for me, at any rate.

What I would also like to see is a pair of one-handed key combinations for incrementing and decrementing the view number, e.g., if the view is currently at 4, press Alt+2 to increment to 5 or Alt+1 to decrement to 3. This can't be done if the Shift+letter system is chosen.

Last edited: 21/03/2014 at 03:57 by maxand
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Numbers vs Shift+Letters to jump to panel locations 21/03/2014 at 04:03 #57508
ozrail
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You can navigate quickly through a scrolly sims by using the overview and just clicking on the portion of the screen you want to see. Sydney Australia ATRICS (simular to IECC) does have scrolly its just that it is shown on multiple screens at the same time which can be changed.
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Numbers vs Shift+Letters to jump to panel locations 21/03/2014 at 06:29 #57509
clive
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" said:
In some scrolly sims such as Westbury, pressing number keys e.g., from 1 to 7 "jump" the view from the extreme LH side of the panel to the extreme RH side of the panel. In other sims such as Brighton, pressing Shift+[letter] focuses the view on a (major) station or terminus, the first letter of which usually corresponds to the letter pressed, e.g., Shift+B moves the view to Brighton station.
And in some sims you can do both.

Euston has keys 1 to 8, but also (shift+) E, M, C, and W (in order from left to right).

It's not a "system" - the author specifies a key and the position in the sim that represents. If I want odd numbers to be on the left and even numbers on the right, I can (though I accept it would be confusing).

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Numbers vs Shift+Letters to jump to panel locations 21/03/2014 at 07:49 #57510
maxand
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Thanks ozrail and clive. Yes, I'd forgotten about the Overview, having tried it in previous sims and discarded it as the window was too long to fit comfortably on my screen. But I admit that in Brighton, being narrower horizontally, it fits in nicely.

I didn't realize one could have both numbers and Shift+letters.

Quote:
If I want odd numbers to be on the left and even numbers on the right, I can (though I accept it would be confusing).

Not sure why you mentioned this as it wasn't part of my request. The straight series 1,2,3,etc. is more logical. IMO pressing a number when one knows what area of the screen it will bring up is speedier than looking at an Overview and clicking a region.

Also I didn't mean to imply that the panel should be divided into equal sized sections, each accessed by a number. I meant that each number should focus on a centre of interest such as a main station or junction; so some numbered views might be closer together than others. But these centres should be ordered consecutively from L to R along with their numbers. Hope this isn't too confusing.

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Numbers vs Shift+Letters to jump to panel locations 21/03/2014 at 15:15 #57520
JamesN
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" said:

" said:
If I want odd numbers to be on the left and even numbers on the right, I can (though I accept it would be confusing).

Not sure why you mentioned this as it wasn't part of my request. The straight series 1,2,3,etc. is more logical. IMO pressing a number when one knows what area of the screen it will bring up is speedier than looking at an Overview and clicking a region.
Key part of that statement being the if...

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Numbers vs Shift+Letters to jump to panel locations 21/03/2014 at 15:49 #57523
Lardybiker
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" said:
Quote:
If I want odd numbers to be on the left and even numbers on the right, I can (though I accept it would be confusing).

Not sure why you mentioned this as it wasn't part of my request. The straight series 1,2,3,etc. is more logical. IMO pressing a number when one knows what area of the screen it will bring up is speedier than looking at an Overview and clicking a region.

Clive was simply stating that there is no set "system" for the keys and developers are free to do what they want and how they want.

Scrolly sims don't exist simply to allow easier navigation for a single player. It came into to being for many reasons (and these has been mentioned many times before). These reasons include but not limited to
1) The paged system could make sim design very difficult in terms of layout due to the limited space (some sims would not have been possible: Edinburgh and South Humberside for example)
2) It allows a lot larger sim area (width-wise) than can be simulated on the original paged system
3) Users with multiple monitors can make use of the extra space and spread the layout over both monitors making it look more like a real IECC system

However, as a result the scrolly did change the way that users move around the screen by making more use of the mouse. For me personally, I very rarely use the keyboard when I play SimSig (apart from typing in TD's). I do it it pretty much all with the mouse and the keyboard is pretty much redundant. Using the shift key and the scroll wheel is pretty much all I need.

There are, of course, two shift keys on a keyboard and that allows you to reach both the shift and any key on the keyboard with one hand without being being a contortionist. The key is (no pun intended) that it can be done one-handed so the letters can work as well as the numbers.

Now, everyone is different mind you and has their way of doing things so I understand the need to give options as what works for me may not work for others and it is certainly true that what is available in terms of short-cut keys isn't particularly consistent sim to sim. That is something us developers could do better.

However, while it is an easy task to add number key options to sims as that facility is available already to the developers, the "increment" or "decrement" view number is a different matter. To be honest, I personally think it has very, very limited use and given it would require Geoff to build into the core code, I can't see the point in adding it. If the sim has number key options included, why add a double-key press to complicate things especially given you can get the same result by a using the single key press numbers or simply a scroll of the mouse wheel in one direction or other. You said yourself you'd prefer single key presses after all!

Last edited: 21/03/2014 at 15:49 by Lardybiker
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Numbers vs Shift+Letters to jump to panel locations 21/03/2014 at 15:53 #57524
kbarber
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" said:
Thanks ozrail and clive

Quote:
If I want odd numbers to be on the left and even numbers on the right, I can (though I accept it would be confusing).

Not sure why you mentioned this as it wasn't part of my request. The straight series 1,2,3,etc. is more logical. IMO pressing a number when one knows what area of the screen it will bring up is speedier than looking at an Overview and clicking a region.

As I read this, Clive is simply saying it is possible to do this (or, presumably, lots of other unhelpful things) - this is what the sim can do - rather than saying anybody would, or would wish to. Hence there is no absolute requirement or single way of doing things, it depends what - if anything - the developer programs and that, inevitably, is going to be idiosyncratic unless (and sometimes perhaps even if) Simsig specifies a way of doing it.

Edited to add: Chris got there as I was typing.

Last edited: 21/03/2014 at 15:55 by kbarber
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Numbers vs Shift+Letters to jump to panel locations 21/03/2014 at 17:01 #57529
GeoffM
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Should also note that not all sims are thin horizontal lines. Marylebone, for example, has:
0-1-2-3-4-5 for the top row
6-7-8-9-0 for the bottom row
It also has Shift-M for Marylebone, Shift-B for Banbury etc.

Other situations may make more sense like this:
0-1-2 9-0
3-4-5-6-7-8
if the track layout was such that there was a long section along the bottom which wrapped at both ends to the top row.

No one-size-fits-all solution here I'm afraid.

SimSig Boss
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Numbers vs Shift+Letters to jump to panel locations 22/03/2014 at 00:54 #57555
maxand
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Ah well then, it's back to the Overview, as long as it isn't too wide or too high to get in the way. Thanks Lardybiker for your insights.
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Numbers vs Shift+Letters to jump to panel locations 22/03/2014 at 09:45 #57565
ozrail
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I use two screens. The laptop as a control panel with Overview and a 24 inch TV for the Track display. It's a little fiddley ever time I start-up a sim, but is worth the trouble.
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