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2A57 won't budge from Brighton

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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 07:15 #58203
maxand
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5A57 entered from Lovers Walk and joined 2D40 to create 2A57. This happy union was supposed to take place at Brighton Platform 3 but as that was already occupied I had to make do with P6.

I tried setting a route from signal 444 (Brighton 6 exit) to 434 (Up Main) but kept getting told Subroute locked in opposite direction. No other routes set, so I deduced this was due to 2A57's bum extending beyond P6. Shortening 2A57 to 150m made no difference.

So I abandoned its timetable to give it marching orders, even swinging the points, as you can see (blue markers) so as to leave no doubts in the driver's mind. Still no go. I tried reversing its direction. Either way, the train list still says "Dn (or Up) Awaiting authority to move at Brighton." There's no higher authority than me. God has failed this train. What now? Thanks for any assistance.

[attachment=2364]SnapshotAt2310.ssg[/attachment]

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Last edited: 02/04/2014 at 07:19 by maxand
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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 07:20 #58204
Hooverman
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Did 2D40 stop far end exact thus leaving enough room for the attaching 5A57?
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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 07:28 #58205
maxand
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Happy ending: Shortening 2A57 to 100m fixed the protrusion and reversing direction to Up (Main) caused it to move. Restored timetable and driver seems happy, though passengers are grizzling about shortened carriages and lack of seating.

Moral: Try to use correct platform if possible and check platform lengths. Thanks Hooverman.

PS It didn't occur to me to check "far end exact" and anyway I'm not that conversant with TT editing but I'll look into it if it happens again. Unhappily I discovered that there is no way to lengthen a train once it has been shortened. How am I going to explain that to the passengers?

Last edited: 02/04/2014 at 07:37 by maxand
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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 07:37 #58206
Josie
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I don't know Brighton well so I'm unsure about platform lengths etc. but presumably you've attempted the join in a platform which is shorter than the booked one, which is why part of the train is off the platform. You can't set a route back out because the rear of the train is still trying to get in (hence the route being locked in the opposite direction).

'Awaiting authority' messages indicate the train is indeed awaiting authority from you. The driver will call you within a few seconds of that status first appearing. If you followed the advice people give you for staying on top of things and keeping trains moving, you probably wouldn't have every train om the panel stationary with 39 drivers calling in, and you'd probably notice the one call requesting authority to make an unsignalled move.

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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 08:29 #58208
maxand
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Josie wrote:
Quote:
'Awaiting authority' messages indicate the train is indeed awaiting authority from you. The driver will call you within a few seconds of that status first appearing.
Thanks, I didn't realize that. Will look more closely at my telephone messages with that in mind.

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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 08:32 #58209
AndyG
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" said:
No other routes set, so I deduced this was due to 2A57's bum extending beyond P6. Shortening 2A57 to 150m made no difference.
As 2A57 has been formed, it's already facing Up and shortening its length would remove that part of it at the rear ie right hand end. If you then reverse the train (might need shunt forward too) it will then move back into the platform.

I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 08:32 #58210
Hooverman
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All of Brighton's platforms will take a 12 car train or 10 car 442.
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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 09:05 #58216
dmaze
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" said:
Will look more closely at my telephone messages with that in mind.
You press "A" or click on the phone button pretty much immediately as soon as it starts flashing, yes?

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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 09:16 #58217
Noisynoel
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" said:
" said:
Will look more closely at my telephone messages with that in mind.
You press "A" or click on the phone button pretty much immediately as soon as it starts flashing, yes?
What you have to answer the phone!! Blimey!

Noisynoel
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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 10:34 #58224
maxand
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dmaze wrote:
Quote:
You press "A" or click on the phone button pretty much immediately as soon as it starts flashing, yes?

When things are going well for me that is what I do. Right now I seem to be a lot further behind, so I tend to answer the drivers every 20 minutes, whether they need answering or not.

I seem to find that by the time I tell the last caller to wait 15 minutes before phoning back, the first one on the list starts ringing again. This leaves me with little time left for setting routes, etc., a bit like painting the Sydney Harbour Bridge, as we put it. By the time you get to one end it's time to start again at the other.

As far as Up and Down are concerned, it's a little more complicated than might appear. Recall that my troublesome train was at Brighton platform 6, topologically midway between the East Branch and the Main Line. Since no route was set, and the Up/Down directions are opposite for these two lines, it's not absolutely clear to me which line SimSig has in mind when it says "Up" or "Down" on the Train List, particularly after I decided to abandon the Timetable! I suspect however, that it was referring to the previous intended route, i.e., the Main Line. So if the train still fails to move, trying Reversing Direction might be the only way to find out.

An afterthought: Does antimatter fall up or down?

Last edited: 02/04/2014 at 10:45 by maxand
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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 11:15 #58228
AndyG
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" said:
As far as Up and Down are concerned, it's a little more complicated than might appear. Recall that my troublesome train was at Brighton platform 6, topologically midway between the East Branch and the Main Line. Since no route was set, and the Up/Down directions are opposite for these two lines, it's not absolutely clear to me which line SimSig has in mind when it says "Up" or "Down" on the Train List, particularly after I decided to abandon the Timetable! I suspect however, that it was referring to the previous intended route, i.e., the Main Line. So if the train still fails to move, trying Reversing Direction might be the only way to find out.
In Train List, Up/down is the direction the train is facing, it's not relevant whether the route set is to/from an up/down line.

In this case if the train is 'UP', it's headed away from Brighton 'up' to London, and all operations are related to this, eg shunt forward would force it in the up direction, reverse direction would make it face down.

I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
Last edited: 02/04/2014 at 11:16 by AndyG
Reason: syntax

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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 12:16 #58233
Forest Pines
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The topology of these things can be confusing though and it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that up and down might be swapped over in, say, platforms 7 and 8. There are certainly places where similar things do happen: near Doncaster there's about a mile of four-track route where a train heading away from Doncaster on either Fast or Slow is an up train, a train heading towards Doncaster on the Fast is a down train, but a train heading in the same direction on the Slow is, er, also an up train.
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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 13:18 #58236
slatteryc
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If you pend an authority to move he doesn't ring back ( was that an old bug ? )

PS 20 mins for a phone answer ? That's certainly not how i play.

if there's no failures on the board and someone phones in its usually something needs fixing straight away

( yes of course there are exceptions - e.g. waiting for all the 5Exx's to move into Hornsey on Kx after the morning rush, wait 15 mins lads and take your turn ) but other than that you should be ahead of it in most cases, could be an incident report as well not just stuck at a signal.

Now sometimes for fun I walk away from a morning peak and come back an hour later and try and restore calm and see how long it takes the madness to die down. ( Sheffield in particular is almost IMPOSSIBLE to fix ) Several Hamlet moments are had contemplating the phone list then.

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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 13:25 #58237
TimTamToe
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" said:
dmaze wrote:
Quote:
You press "A" or click on the phone button pretty much immediately as soon as it starts flashing, yes?

When things are going well for me that is what I do. Right now I seem to be a lot further behind, so I tend to answer the drivers every 20 minutes, whether they need answering or not.

I seem to find that by the time I tell the last caller to wait 15 minutes before phoning back, the first one on the list starts ringing again. This leaves me with little time left for setting routes, etc., a bit like painting the Sydney Harbour Bridge, as we put it. By the time you get to one end it's time to start again at the other.

I assume you are playing without failures on, so if you are having so many problems and so many drivers on the phone to you and you're not replying for 20 min I suggest you use f3 and slow the speed of the sim down. Then if you scan the sim left to right (or right to left) making sure each train has a few greens in front of it you should (with no failures on) rarely have trains phoning in except when entering from sidings.

This advice has been given to you on many occasions, in many different threads by myself and many others, but it never seems like you take it on board.

Gareth

Last edited: 02/04/2014 at 13:25 by TimTamToe
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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 14:03 #58238
kbarber
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" said:
dmaze wrote:
Quote:
You press "A" or click on the phone button pretty much immediately as soon as it starts flashing, yes?

When things are going well for me that is what I do. Right now I seem to be a lot further behind, so I tend to answer the drivers every 20 minutes, whether they need answering or not.

I seem to find that by the time I tell the last caller to wait 15 minutes before phoning back, the first one on the list starts ringing again. This leaves me with little time left for setting routes, etc., a bit like painting the Sydney Harbour Bridge, as we put it. By the time you get to one end it's time to start again at the other.

This can happen in real life too; I occasionally saw it in Hackney Downs when the service was up the wall (luckily I was Station Manager so it was the poor signalman who had to sort the mess out). Even Enfield Town could get pretty hassled when Bury Street Junction failed.

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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 14:38 #58239
jc92
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"welcome to Three bridges ASC panel 6... your call is in a queue but is very important to us. a Trained advisor will be with you shortly (ELO - "Last train to london" hold music kicks in)"
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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 14:49 #58240
Late Turn
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" said:
The topology of these things can be confusing though and it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that up and down might be swapped over in, say, platforms 7 and 8. There are certainly places where similar things do happen: near Doncaster there's about a mile of four-track route where a train heading away from Doncaster on either Fast or Slow is an up train, a train heading towards Doncaster on the Fast is a down train, but a train heading in the same direction on the Slow is, er, also an up train.

Kirk Sandall, by any chance? I can see why the Down Slow becomes the Up South Yorks where it does (no connection back to the Down Main after that), but it's certainly not what you'd expect!

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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 20:39 #58266
Forest Pines
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" said:
" said:
The topology of these things can be confusing though and it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that up and down might be swapped over in, say, platforms 7 and 8. There are certainly places where similar things do happen: near Doncaster there's about a mile of four-track route where a train heading away from Doncaster on either Fast or Slow is an up train, a train heading towards Doncaster on the Fast is a down train, but a train heading in the same direction on the Slow is, er, also an up train.

Kirk Sandall, by any chance? I can see why the Down Slow becomes the Up South Yorks where it does (no connection back to the Down Main after that), but it's certainly not what you'd expect!
That's the spot. Yes, it makes sense when you look at the track layout, but it's still a bit counterintuitive.

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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 20:57 #58269
northroad
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I think you have answered your own question Max. You obviously ignored the Platform lengths as shown in the simulation manual, routed a service in there despite reading this well detailed fact and so should rightly end up suffering the consequences. Take your medicine and suffer the results of these wrong doings. Luckily with Sim Sig you will not get a severe reprimand that would have happened had it been real life along with all the wrath of the disgruntled passengers waiting for you to sort out the mess.
Never apologise son, it's a sign of weakness (John Wayne)
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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 21:14 #58270
clive
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" said:

'Awaiting authority' messages indicate the train is indeed awaiting authority from you.[...] the one call requesting authority to make an unsignalled move.
To explain what's going on: when a train reverses direction, the core code looks to see if there are any points or crossings between the train and the next signal. If so, the driver will call in for authority to move. If there are no points or crossings, the train obeys the signal without calling.

(It's possible to override this in a sim. IIRC, there's somewhere in Sheffield station where a reversing train is allowed (both in real life and SimSig) to proceed forward over points without authority. Platform 1?)

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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 02/04/2014 at 21:19 #58272
Forest Pines
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" said:

(It's possible to override this in a sim. IIRC, there's somewhere in Sheffield station where a reversing train is allowed (both in real life and SimSig) to proceed forward over points without authority. Platform 1?)
It would have to be Platform 1B; Platform 6 also has mid-platform points, but not in a position where they're likely to be between a train and a signal.

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2A57 won't budge from Brighton 03/04/2014 at 08:40 #58289
jc92
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" said:
" said:

(It's possible to override this in a sim. IIRC, there's somewhere in Sheffield station where a reversing train is allowed (both in real life and SimSig) to proceed forward over points without authority. Platform 1?)
It would have to be Platform 1B; Platform 6 also has mid-platform points, but not in a position where they're likely to be between a train and a signal.
it is indeed 1B, heading north. the interlocking prevents any misreads on the down through and maintains said points locked while a train is occupying 1B

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