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| 1S96 25/07/2014 at 22:51 #63157 | |
y10g9
895 posts |
Hi Since there is currently no Wembley Mainline section in the Timetable forum section, i've placed this here. On the 2009 TT, i've just routed 1S96 out of Wembley RMT to reverse as TTed in the Railnet Reception 1. however arriving ontime at the location, it takes 4 mins in addition to the 4mins that the TT gives it for the train to reverse to head down to the reversal at Willesden 829/831. Departs Railnet Reception 4 down at 1636 Service then arrives at Willesden 829/831 (having had a clear rout between locations) 5 down arriving at 1642 (TTed 1637) and proceeds to take 8 mins again for the turnaround (TT allows 2 mins for this reversal) leaving Willesden 829/831 heading for Acton Lane Recp 11 down at 1650 (TTed 1639) Under clear signals again (though 822 is an approach release signal as route goes onto shunt signals), he then arrives at Acton Lane Reception 13 down at 1658 (TTed 1645) where he then takes 9 minutes to carry out the reverse (again the TT allows only 3 mins) finally leaving for Wembley Central 19 town at 1707. This has however now placed it running on the main line in the middle of the ~1700 Virgin departures from Euston, at a max speed of 100mph (compared to the max 140mph of the Virgin Pendolino services) Is this right that this train should be losing 19 minutes so early on in its journey for it to cross over to the fast lines to start it journey? Is it that the real life WTT had the errors in, or is it a sim TT error, or purely a sim error with the train being held for 2 time, 4 times, and 3 times longer than TTed (respectively). (this has been repeated twice, A snapshot save game is available on request) Would it also be possible for a platform code to be placed in the TT for Wembley Central so it is clear what lines 1S96 is meant to take towards Watford Jn along with the line codes? Its the first train that i've seen in the 17hrs so far that doesnt have line codes and platform codes for leaving the sim. (Have checked the entry of this train on Watford JN which shows that 1S96 does travel on the fast lines. I know that this is 5 years later than when the sim is simulated in, but the equivalent of 1S96 doesn't seem to have all the reversing movements in the current TT, leaving on the Slow line Last edited: 25/07/2014 at 22:52 by y10g9 Log in to reply |
| 1S96 25/07/2014 at 23:11 #63158 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
The simple answer is that the 12/325 train type has its reversing dwell time set to 9 minutes. However, 2 minutes to reverse also seems very short - 12 coaches is a long way to walk in that time, unless they are propelling the train (if such a term can be used for an EMU...).
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| 1S96 25/07/2014 at 23:22 #63160 | |
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y10g9
895 posts |
I did consider that but looked in the TT and the manual dwell times were set to zero, so i wonder if it was something in the sim defaults. Incidently 1F00, although being one set shorter, had no problems with his reverse at Railnet Reception (has TTed 5mins for the reverse)
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| 1S96 26/07/2014 at 08:27 #63161 | |
postal
5190 posts |
" said:I did consider that but looked in the TT and the manual dwell times were set to zero, so i wonder if it was something in the sim defaults. Incidently 1F00, although being one set shorter, had no problems with his reverse at Railnet Reception (has TTed 5mins for the reverse)Can't remember the exact figures but the default reversing time is not usually a fixed number. It is composed of a fixed time for the usual overheads (closing down in one cab, opening up in the other cab and all of the other stuff about lights, brakes etc.) plus a variable element calculated by using the length of the train and a notional walking speed. If the manual dwell times are set to zero, the sim defaults are used; if there are data in the manual dwell times fields, then those times override the defaults. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| 1S96 26/07/2014 at 08:56 #63162 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
The dwell times are shown on the custom dwell tab of the train and are 9 minutes for a 12 car train. It is impossible for a driver to shut one cab down, walk 12 coaches and set the other cab up in 2 minutes unless he's a Olympic sprinter (most drivers Ii know are Olympic dwadlers!). Basically the timetable input by the train operator and approved by NR does not take this into account and is therefore incorrect, just one of a number of TT issues signallers have to deal with.
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| 1S96 26/07/2014 at 11:37 #63166 | |
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y10g9
895 posts |
Thanks for the confirmation Noel, i wasn't aware of the other dwell time time. Nath Last edited: 26/07/2014 at 11:40 by y10g9 Log in to reply |
| 1S96 27/07/2014 at 19:12 #63216 | |
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clive
2737 posts |
" said:I've just checked the core code. The overheads time is a random number between 0 and 15 seconds. The walking time is calculated at 1.5 m/s (about 3.36 mph). However, the default reversing time is never less than 30 seconds. This is an absolute minimum. Normally the timetable (or, with recent loader versions, a specific dwell time) would determine the actual time before the train left. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: y10g9 |
| 1S96 27/07/2014 at 19:57 #63218 | |
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postal
5190 posts |
" said:The overheads time is a random number between 0 and 15 seconds. The walking time is calculated at 1.5 m/s (about 3.36 mph). However, the default reversing time is never less than 30 seconds.Clive Just to test my understanding, 1S96 is a Cl.325 x 3 set which is 240m long give or take. The sim default reversing time would be 240/1.5 (=160) + 0 to 15 seconds or 175 seconds max. Therefore a defined dwell time of 9 minutes in the TT is 6 minutes or more longer than the reverse would take if the sim was left to its own devices. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| 1S96 27/07/2014 at 20:14 #63219 | |
lazzer
603 posts |
Just to give you a little more perspective on things, it takes me AT LEAST seven minutes to change ends and set up the cab of a 2+8 HST (about 220 feet). True, this includes ATP set-up, and that takes two minutes from key in to brake available. Most of the time is spent walking from one end of the train to the other. Gloucester calls are the biggest problem for some drivers (we don't sign up there), as the diagrammed turnaround is exactly seven minutes, hence the driver is getting the tip to go while the cab is still setting up, especially if they're not the fastest walker ... Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
| 1S96 27/07/2014 at 21:13 #63222 | |
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lnwrelectric
26 posts |
Which is why 1S96 was double manned to enable the numerous reverses and in theory 2" was sufficient though on plenty of occasions the train was routed straight down to North Wembley when it left the Railnet late.
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| 1S96 27/07/2014 at 22:21 #63224 | |
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postal
5190 posts |
" said:Just to give you a little more perspective on things, it takes me AT LEAST seven minutes to change ends and set up the cab of a 2+8 HST (about 220 feet). True, this includes ATP set-up, and that takes two minutes from key in to brake available. Most of the time is spent walking from one end of the train to the other.About 220 metres not feet? “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| 1S96 28/07/2014 at 04:04 #63228 | |
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lazzer
603 posts |
Erm yes - well spotted. :dry:
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| 1S96 28/07/2014 at 05:38 #63229 | |
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clive
2737 posts |
" said:Just to test my understanding, 1S96 is a Cl.325 x 3 set which is 240m long give or take. The sim default reversing time would be 240/1.5 (=160) + 0 to 15 seconds or 175 seconds max. Therefore a defined dwell time of 9 minutes in the TT is 6 minutes or more longer than the reverse would take if the sim was left to its own devices.That's correct. As others have said, the sim default is pretty quick compared with what drivers actually do. That's because, until Geoff added explicit dwell times, there was no way to override it. Perhaps we should look at changing it now. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
| 1S96 29/07/2014 at 08:59 #63263 | |
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postal
5190 posts |
" said:Which is why 1S96 was double manned to enable the numerous reverses and in theory 2" was sufficient though on plenty of occasions the train was routed straight down to North Wembley when it left the Railnet late.So just to test my understanding further, am I correct in assuming that it would be possible to set a reverse dwell time of 00:09:00 for a 3 x 325 set in the train types tab, but override this at a specific location for a specific train? So for example for 1S96, it would be possible to override the defined 00:09:00 and work to a reverse dwell time of 00:02:00 at Railnet Reception 1 by going into the TT for 1S96 and editing the Railnet Reception 1 timings by adding in a dwell time of 00:02:00 in the dwell time box on the Timetable Trip Editor pop-up for that specific timetable point. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| 1S96 23/04/2018 at 03:11 #107664 | |
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Edmund1635
15 posts |
I was baffled by the this issue too when I was working the Wembley TT recently. A check the current WTT confirmed that 1S96 nowadays doesn't follow this TT anymore - after reversing at the Railnet Reception it will just join Down Slow at Sudbury Junction and then Down Fast at Wembley Central, instead of reversing at 829/831, go into Acton siding before going to Down Fast. Real Time Trains also suggested it is the pathing 1S96 follows these days. Guess I will check if pathing allows - if so I will probably just route 1S96 onto DF like they do today (which I think will be perfectly possible, as I managed to route a Class 6 freight all the way from UWS to US earlier in the day!) Log in to reply |