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| RA and OOG 14/12/2009 at 15:49 #384 | |
caedave
142 posts |
I suspect this is a big ask and have therefore not gone direct to the wish list. For SimSig to accept and react from information in the WTT train type on it's Route Availability, Type and/or Out of Gauge information. This would take the form of a message for OOG and the route not setting if that route was not permitted for that train type or the additional restrictions where activated. Example 1: Euston platforms 1 and 3 have restrictions on some types of DMU using them. Example 2: No restriction on one line of track, but could be switched to another line which did have restrictions for that train type. WHAT DO OTHERS THINK. Dave M. Log in to reply |
| RA and OOG 14/12/2009 at 15:49 #5047 | |
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caedave
142 posts |
I suspect this is a big ask and have therefore not gone direct to the wish list. For SimSig to accept and react from information in the WTT train type on it's Route Availability, Type and/or Out of Gauge information. This would take the form of a message for OOG and the route not setting if that route was not permitted for that train type or the additional restrictions where activated. Example 1: Euston platforms 1 and 3 have restrictions on some types of DMU using them. Example 2: No restriction on one line of track, but could be switched to another line which did have restrictions for that train type. WHAT DO OTHERS THINK. Dave M. Log in to reply |
| RA and OOG 14/12/2009 at 16:46 #5050 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
My only thought is that it would not be prototypical. The only thing that prevents certain DMU's entering Plts 1 & 3 at Euston is the signallers & drivers knowledge. The signalling system treats all trains the same. A prime example of this occurred 2 weeks ago whilst I was nights, when it was suddenly realised by a signaller in Ashford IECC that a train with 9' 6" guage containers was heading from Ashford towards Tonbridge with electric traction. The only route available to this type of train between Ashford & London is via Maidstone East, however, the signaller inadvertantly wrong routed it at Ashford and the driver took the route as he didn't realise he had 'big' containers on.. Also the WTT does not contain any infomation about a trains RA, especially as freight trains can have a different RA each time it runs, depending on what wagons are on the train, what loco is hauling them, whether it's loaded or empty etc etc. Noisynoel Log in to reply |
| RA and OOG 14/12/2009 at 16:47 #5051 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
And before anyone asks, the train had to sit at Tonbridge whilst another loco was sent from Dollands Moor to haul it back to Ashford for a 2nd attempt!
Noisynoel Log in to reply |
| RA and OOG 14/12/2009 at 18:21 #5057 | |
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AndyG
1834 posts |
And this is what happens when 9'6" containers aren't noticed: RAIB Report I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| RA and OOG 14/12/2009 at 19:49 #5061 | |
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caedave
142 posts |
So, from the above this is down to the TOC,FOC and NR within the train/route planning department using the "C#", "W#" of the stock and where required the "RA" of the Loco. My question is therefore "Who gets told, by who, how and when"? Getting back to SimSig I assume that any restrictions would need to be in the WTT startup comments. Having done so we get to the penalty. One is already there (Pass over Freight), could this be extended to Pass over ECS only moves? Back to the big ask. R8 train on R8 route, diverted onto R7 route, R8 allowed with restrictions (Line Speed!). Dave M. Log in to reply |
| RA and OOG 14/12/2009 at 20:33 #5064 | |
Peter Bennet
5357 posts |
Can't see any reason in theory why it could not be done but if it required track to be coded with an RA it could be a big job- though you could get away with just the entrance TCs being coded I suppose. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| RA and OOG 14/12/2009 at 23:14 #5069 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
I can'tvouch for anywhere else, but on Kent any train that has 'Club class' traffic (9' 6" containers) should run as either 4Bxx or 7Bxx which indicates to the signaller that it must run via a spefic route. Any other service that has additionally got 9'6" containers on, loaded at short notice, wiull have a form issued by the FOC to NR Control, who then advise the signaller. Any Out of Guage loads will again, be advised either by the planners or the FOC to NR Control for onward transmission. If an RA8 train was diverted over an RA7 route, then specific restrictions & permission would have to be sought from the terrority enginneers. Noisynoel Log in to reply |
| RA and OOG 15/12/2009 at 13:46 #5076 | |
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caedave
142 posts |
Peter. That's why I said "A Big Ask". Checking the Docs against the Sims, most would simply have the same RA (7 or 8) for the Sim Area. NNL and Trent being possible odd men out. Notes in the Sim start page, with possibly some sort of indication on the display of where a local restriction (Bridge/Platform clearance etc) apply. The other problem is within the TT. You would need to identify and specify your Train, Stock and/or Loco by the NR listed types. Noels comments noted, so a random generated OOG or "Club class" traffic, with a message being triggered at a suitable interval before it is due to enter or notes in the TT start page of ID's for these restricted trains, and with the Sim being able to identify these trains resulting in them stopping and the driver phoning in should the signaller set a Not Allowed route. I think that's enough reasons not to go ahead with this idea but, what a wonderfull chance to cause some mayhem. Dave M. Log in to reply |
| RA and OOG 15/12/2009 at 20:42 #5080 | |
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kbarber
1711 posts |
It used to be that OOG (or any other exceptional load) ran with X replacing the usual letter in the headcode, certainly the case when I was an operator (but that was quite a long time ago now). Exceptional or OG loads ran under the authority of form BR29973, issued to traincrew at start of journey. Where routing restrictions or special working were involved the train would be wired out beforehand, where it was only heavy axle load or large containers (speed restrictions the main special requirement) that didn't happen but there would be local instructions specifying routes to be used by certain services. As Dave says it's probably a big ask but I'm sure such things could be coded... how to box up New Street in one easy move :-)
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| RA and OOG 15/12/2009 at 22:18 #5081 | |
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daverail01
32 posts |
The form is now RT.3973 and there are 4 variants EXL for EXeptional Loads, CON for CONtainers, HAW for Heavy Axle Weight and NUC( I will leave you to guess what that means) These forms show any routing/speed restrictions for the traffic they relate to. For Example the Colas Rail services to/from Dollands Moor are restricted on route due to the wagon/"box" mix as someone found out when they tried to send one via Sevenoaks recently due to a TC failure on the booked route (Boxes & Sevenoaks tunnel do NOT mix)Most of the services are WTT paths that are regular runners. If we have a special that is restricted or Out Of Gauge then a specific "Conditions of Travel" notice is issued which shows all the restrictions on the relevant RT.3973 plus a detailed set of timings for the train. A regular EXLO move at the moment is the transfer of class 378 units to/from Derby for testing as these are OOG off the Southern and another well documented train was 8X23 Old Dalby-Amersham LUL stock move (No Chris - you can't have the timings!). Believe it or not bit the notices for OGLO moves still use the old telegraphic code words such as "FABRIC","GOBI","SULTAN" etc
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| RA and OOG 15/12/2009 at 23:08 #5082 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
daverail01 said:For Example the Colas Rail services to/from Dollands Moor are restricted on route due to the wagon/"box" mix as someone found out when they tried to send one via Sevenoaks recently due to a TC failure on the booked route (Boxes & Sevenoaks tunnel do NOT mix) Wasn't me Honest... blamey the bobby on Panel 4 at Ashford! Noisynoel Log in to reply |
| RA and OOG 16/12/2009 at 10:59 #5095 | |
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kbarber
1711 posts |
daverail01 said:The form is now RT.3973 So they've basically kept the old numbering; I wonder if a 3973 still looks like a 29973. The papers I was familiar with at the Brent were usually for heavy axle load traffic, usually on the Bescot (6M92 or 6M94 sound vaguely familiar but I wouldn't swear to it after almost 25yr) and there were preprinted standard papers for most of our usual traffics. Below the leading section where train ID & such were written in was a list of restrictions, each headed with the telegraph code yet each with the meaning of the code printed in full together with the restriction, so it would read along the lines of: "FABRIC: Not to exceed a speed of Xmph through bridge Y between a miles b chains and c miles d chains". As I recall the list took up over 2/3 of an A4 sheet, albeit the GOBIs allowed just about any sensible route from Willesden to Bescot. Log in to reply |