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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing

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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 09/01/2016 at 00:50 #79721
trolleybus
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I can't seem to make this train appear under any circumstances. I've tried editing its entry time and duplicating it to arrive later, but it never shows. If it were Serco, I'd understand it.

A week or so ago I saw a discussion of Motherwell 1984 in the Recent Posts section of the forum, which is why I downloaded it, and I'm glad I did as it looks a fascinating TT. But if the discussion is still online then I can't for the life of me find it. It certainly isn't under Motherwell timetables.

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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 09/01/2016 at 11:07 #79732
sloppyjag
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This is due to timetables involving movements from Carstairs to Carstairs UPL not validating and as a result the train with those timetables will not enter. I've tried amending the timetables to make the train enter but to no avail. It seems to be a sim issue.

Additionally, the download is labeled "sim v4.3.67" and the current release is, I beleive, v4.2.3 so presumably a release fixing this issue is just around the corner. Maybe Peter or Bill can give an update?

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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 09/01/2016 at 11:46 #79735
Peter Bennet
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" said:
This is due to timetables involving movements from Carstairs to Carstairs UPL not validating and as a result the train with those timetables will not enter. I've tried amending the timetables to make the train enter but to no avail. It seems to be a sim issue.

Additionally, the download is labeled "sim v4.3.67" and the current release is, I believe, v4.2.3 so presumably a release fixing this issue is just around the corner. Maybe Peter or Bill can give an update?
Yes: Bill sent me an email which I have yet to deal with but I believe the timetable might not be compatible with the last sim release. A number of people are working on a number of timetables off and on which have required tweaks to the Sim and I keep losing track of what's what. I do have an updated Sim but I'm not sure if all the timetablers are content it does what they want it to do yet.

Peter

Stereotypes only have themselves to blame
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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 09/01/2016 at 14:24 #79744
Ray
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I also noticed 1C62 not appearing.

Additionally I found two signals in the Mossend Yard area with odd behaviour.

Signal M317 will not call on a route to the main Coatbridge UP line giving code "no overlap available". This may be intentional but forces the signaller to give permission to a reversing train/loco to pass it at red in order to facilitate a join.

Signal M307 does not manually cancel so it blocks the points ahead to a permanent normal position. I think it only cancels after traffic has passed it.

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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 09/01/2016 at 14:24 #79745
Splodge
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I managed to get the TT for 1C62 to validate and the train to enter by adjusting the path at both Carstairs and Carstairs UPL to 'UM':


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There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
Last edited: 09/01/2016 at 14:24 by Splodge
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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 09/01/2016 at 15:27 #79747
Peter Bennet
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" said:
I also noticed 1C62 not appearing.

Additionally, I found two signals in the Mossend Yard area with odd behaviour.

Signal M317 will not call on a route to the main Coatbridge UP line giving code "no overlap available". This may be intentional but forces the signaller to give permission to a reversing train/loco to pass it at red in order to facilitate a join.

Vaguely recall this and it seems OK now, so probably fixed

Quote:

Signal M307 does not manually cancel so it blocks the points ahead to a permanent normal position. I think it only cancels after traffic has passed it.
Not clear what the circumstances are of your experience but the manual may assist?

All eras: Trains entering the Down yard from Down Reception 1&2 are controlled by signals MY311 and MY309: these are fixed Reds with a PL controlled by Mossend Yard Control. For Sim purposes, the user must left click on the relevant signal in lieu of the controller. After a random period of time (up to 10 mins) the signal will clear. After the train has entered the controller may or may not remember to restore the signal switch. If he forgets then you can phone and request the reset. A similar arrangement applies to Signal M307 except there you have to set the route in before awaiting the controller to clear the signal.

Peter

Stereotypes only have themselves to blame
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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 09/01/2016 at 16:00 #79748
bill_gensheet
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Sorry folks I had not realised how old the release sim is.

There are two problems:
ARS paths to Carstairs reversal point documented above
Entry and exits on the Shotts line moved to Midcalder Jn (Shotts Line) which does not exist in 4.2.3

An edited timetable is attached to address these points but be aware that this will then fail when the sim updates.

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Last edited: 09/01/2016 at 23:53 by bill_gensheet
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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 09/01/2016 at 23:55 #79766
bill_gensheet
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Sorry folks I had not realised how old the release sim is.

There are two problems:
ARS paths to Carstairs reversal point documented above
Entry and exits on the Shotts line moved to Midcalder Jn (Shotts Line) which does not exist in 4.2.3

An edited timetable is attached to address these points but be aware that this will then fail when the sim updates.

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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 13/01/2016 at 23:01 #79849
Danny252
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" said:
Quote:

Signal M307 does not manually cancel so it blocks the points ahead to a permanent normal position. I think it only cancels after traffic has passed it.
Not clear what the circumstances are of your experience but the manual may assist?
The situation is presumably similar to the one imaged below. The old engine for 6S79 has hooked off and gone into Mossend DY, with the new engine waiting on the Down Coatbridge to shunt onto the train. However, the yard controller doesn't seem inclined to return the signal to danger, preventing the new engine from going on, and the signal doesn't return to danger when cancelled. I think the yard controller is resetting it immediately, as I can get it to eventually cancel after collaring it then cancelling.


Last edited: 13/01/2016 at 23:04 by Danny252
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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 14/01/2016 at 15:35 #79856
Jan
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" said:
However, the yard controller doesn't seem inclined to return the signal to danger, preventing the new engine from going on, and the signal doesn't return to danger when cancelled. I think the yard controller is resetting it immediately, as I can get it to eventually cancel after collaring it then cancelling.
I think in that situation you can phone the yard controller and ask him to restore the signal back to danger, as per the manual.

Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
Last edited: 14/01/2016 at 15:35 by Jan
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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 14/01/2016 at 17:22 #79857
John 23
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Peter,
The M317 issue still with us. See my post on 1984 Timetable released.

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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 14/01/2016 at 20:04 #79861
Danny252
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" said:
" said:
However, the yard controller doesn't seem inclined to return the signal to danger, preventing the new engine from going on, and the signal doesn't return to danger when cancelled. I think the yard controller is resetting it immediately, as I can get it to eventually cancel after collaring it then cancelling.
I think in that situation you can phone the yard controller and ask him to restore the signal back to danger, as per the manual.
Huh, so that does work for cases other than "forgotten signal". I'll add a note to the manual to mention the second use of the phone call.

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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 15/01/2016 at 20:03 #79882
bill_gensheet
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Yes, you can call immediately, effectively saying 'please reset ASAP as I need to set another route'

There is need for that around 1700 and 2300 I recall.

Bill

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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 17/01/2018 at 00:51 #105159
bill_gensheet
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Update on 1984 timetables.

The sim has updated via loader to data version 4.3. The previous timetable anyone has been using (v1.1 for sim 4.2.3) will not work. User timetables do not update through loader.

I have edited the timetable and both version analyse with no errors on 4.3. The timetable is now version 2.
The timetable has not been run through in sim as it is only one train different to that initially tested thoroughly. Any feedback welcome.

The new zip is in the upload approval queue and also on my gensheet webspace.


regards

Bill

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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 17/01/2018 at 14:03 #105169
Phil-jmw
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There was already a 1984 TT for sim version 4.3, with an edited version to work with 4.2.3, both of which I downloaded some time ago. Having previously run the TT for V4.2.3 with no major issues I am currently using the V4.3 TT and apart from the odd 1S** losing its ARS status at Carstairs after detaching a portion and not allowing it to be remade ARS, and a rule missing stating that 6B86 shouldn't depart until **mins after 6D72 has arrived at Uddingston Viewpark (6D72 was very late and wtg fitters attn at Newton when 6B86 called up from Viewpark), I'm up to 0420 and all is working well.


Regards,

Phil.

Last edited: 17/01/2018 at 14:13 by Phil-jmw
Reason: None given

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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 17/01/2018 at 14:12 #105170
MarkC
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Phil-jmw in post 105169 said:
There was already a 1984 TT in the Timetables section for 4.3, with an edited version to work with 4.2.3. I am currently using the V4.3 TT and apart from the odd 1S** losing its ARS status at Carstairs after detaching a portion and not allowing it to be remade ARS, and a rule missing stating that 6B86 shouldn't depart until **mins after 6D72 has arrived at Uddingston Viewpark (6D72 was very late and wtg fitters attn at Newton when 6B86 called up from Viewpark), I'm up to 0420 and all is working well.


Regards,

Phil.
The issue with regards to the 1S** losing their ARS status is due to there being 2 trains in sim with the same headcode (if you look in the F2 train list after the divide you should see 2 1S**'s at Carstairs), the 1S**'s divide and the front portion is a new train also with the headcode of 1S**, normally after the remaining 1S** has joined the LightLoco from Carstairs and become 1B** you should be able to reinstate the ARS on the forward working 1S**.

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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 17/01/2018 at 14:19 #105172
Phil-jmw
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MarkC in post 105170 said:
Phil-jmw in post 105169 said:
There was already a 1984 TT in the Timetables section for 4.3, with an edited version to work with 4.2.3. I am currently using the V4.3 TT and apart from the odd 1S** losing its ARS status at Carstairs after detaching a portion and not allowing it to be remade ARS, and a rule missing stating that 6B86 shouldn't depart until **mins after 6D72 has arrived at Uddingston Viewpark (6D72 was very late and wtg fitters attn at Newton when 6B86 called up from Viewpark), I'm up to 0420 and all is working well.


Regards,

Phil.
The issue with regards to the 1S** losing their ARS status is due to there being 2 trains in sim with the same headcode (if you look in the F2 train list after the divide you should see 2 1S**'s at Carstairs), the 1S**'s divide and the front portion is a new train also with the headcode of 1S**, normally after the remaining 1S** has joined the LightLoco from Carstairs and become 1B** you should be able to reinstate the ARS on the forward working 1S**.
Thanks for explaining that Mark. That explains why I've sometimes found trains can have ARS reinstated, and more to the point, that the reinstatement has happened at different locations, which I was scratching my head over. I'd not made the connection that it was the loco attachment at Carstairs (and the train ID change) which allowed the first portion to be made ARS again. Every day is a schoolday.


Regards,

Phil.

Last edited: 17/01/2018 at 14:24 by Phil-jmw
Reason: None given

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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 18/01/2018 at 12:15 #105185
HST125Scorton
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bill_gensheet in post 105159 said:
Update on 1984 timetables.

The sim has updated via loader to data version 4.3. The previous timetable anyone has been using (v1.1 for sim 4.2.3) will not work. User timetables do not update through loader.

I have edited the timetable and both version analyse with no errors on 4.3. The timetable is now version 2.
The timetable has not been run through in sim as it is only one train different to that initially tested thoroughly. Any feedback welcome.

The new zip is in the upload approval queue and also on my gensheet webspace.


regards

Bill
Thank you for updating these timetables. I very much enjoy this timetable and play it without ARS on my own.

Aaron (AJRO)
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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 19/01/2018 at 23:57 #105246
bill_gensheet
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Phil-jmw in post 105169 said:
There was already a 1984 TT for sim version 4.3, with an edited version to work with 4.2.3, both of which I downloaded some time ago. Having previously run the TT for V4.2.3 with no major issues I am currently using the V4.3 TT and apart from the odd 1S** losing its ARS status at Carstairs after detaching a portion and not allowing it to be remade ARS, and a rule missing stating that 6B86 shouldn't depart until **mins after 6D72 has arrived at Uddingston Viewpark (6D72 was very late and wtg fitters attn at Newton when 6B86 called up from Viewpark), I'm up to 0420 and all is working well.


Regards,

Phil.
Hi Phil,

Yes I have had a version for 4.3 out before (I jumped the gun: my misunderstanding & a late sim issue) but because 4.2.3 stayed 'public' for a lot longer, hence the edit back to allow working with 4.2.3.

This is a simple edit of 0M25 on from that first 'for 4.3' timetable, so should be OK.

The ID setup at Carstairs is deliberate as this way the Glasgow section will pick up ARS automatically when signalled forward, saving a lot of unnecessary interposing. UID's from Carstairs are 1Sxx02 so the sim can tell them apart.

The Viewpark entry is not an error, yesterdays 6D71 is in there at the start and there are two trains in at once.
I have also not prevented causing a 'Mexican'.
6D71 in 2228 - 6B86 out 0122
6D72 in 0145 - 6B81 out 0934
0T77 in 1244 - 8T77 out 1312
6D71 in 2228 - 6B86N out 2522
6D72N in at 2542

Glad you are liking it

regards
Bill

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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 20/01/2018 at 00:54 #105247
Phil-jmw
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bill_gensheet in post 105246 said:
Phil-jmw in post 105169 said:
There was already a 1984 TT for sim version 4.3, with an edited version to work with 4.2.3, both of which I downloaded some time ago. Having previously run the TT for V4.2.3 with no major issues I am currently using the V4.3 TT and apart from the odd 1S** losing its ARS status at Carstairs after detaching a portion and not allowing it to be remade ARS, and a rule missing stating that 6B86 shouldn't depart until **mins after 6D72 has arrived at Uddingston Viewpark (6D72 was very late and wtg fitters attn at Newton when 6B86 called up from Viewpark), I'm up to 0420 and all is working well.


Regards,

Phil.
Hi Phil,

Yes I have had a version for 4.3 out before (I jumped the gun: my misunderstanding & a late sim issue) but because 4.2.3 stayed 'public' for a lot longer, hence the edit back to allow working with 4.2.3.

This is a simple edit of 0M25 on from that first 'for 4.3' timetable, so should be OK.

The ID setup at Carstairs is deliberate as this way the Glasgow section will pick up ARS automatically when signalled forward, saving a lot of unnecessary interposing. UID's from Carstairs are 1Sxx02 so the sim can tell them apart.

The Viewpark entry is not an error, yesterdays 6D71 is in there at the start and there are two trains in at once.
I have also not prevented causing a 'Mexican'.
6D71 in 2228 - 6B86 out 0122
6D72 in 0145 - 6B81 out 0934
0T77 in 1244 - 8T77 out 1312
6D71 in 2228 - 6B86N out 2522
6D72N in at 2542

Glad you are liking it

regards
Bill
Hi Bill,

Thanks for explaining the updated TT, and the workings in and out of Viewpark. I'm a good way through the original 4.3 right now and am thoroughly enjoying it. The modern era TT's may have more trains, but this and the other heritage TT's more than make up for less trains with more varied shunt moves and trip workings. When I get to midnight with this TT I'll make a start with the revised TT, and may even have a stab at running it without ARS too. Thanks again Bill.


Regards,

Phil.

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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 20/01/2018 at 01:08 #105248
postal
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3130 posts
bill_gensheet in post 105246 said:

6D72 in 0145 - 6B81 out 0934
6D72N in at 2542
Bill

Does 6D72 run at different times on different days or is there a typo here?

Democracy becomes a government of bullies tempered by editors - Ralph Waldo Emerson (May 25, 1803 – April 27, 1882) US essayist & poet
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1984 - Train 1C62 not appearing 21/01/2018 at 00:08 #105277
bill_gensheet
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Typo (I use the number pad), but worse than that 6D72N is not even there !
Escaped the +24:00 duplication.

regards
Bill

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