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| 1984 Timetable released 09/01/2016 at 14:07 #79742 | |
bill_gensheet
1314 posts |
Available now in the downloads is a 1984 timetable for the Motherwell sim. At this time not only were many of the steelworks in full production but passenger services were joining / splitting at Carstairs and Mossend. There is a short guide and 6 additional splash screen images supplied in the zip download. Download Link Some services may require adjustment until the sim release catches up fully. Please revalidate the timetable before use. Two timetables are supplied, both running from 0000 to 0300 next day. The 'fair' timetable has 857 trains and takes it to be the Glasgow holiday fortnight with the usual works maintenance closures. This allows the user to deal with just a few trips and slightly less freight. It is a good introduction to the 1984 layout, ground frames use and is OK for a single player at easy mode with low / no failures. The full timetable has Ravenscraig steel works in full production along with the related works so there are lots of trip freights giving a total of 1123 trains to deal with. [img size=550]http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/photo/scaled/10653.jpg[/img] [img size=550]http://www.railwayscenes.com/uploads/1/8/8/9/18895187/9315794_orig.jpg[/img] [img size=550]https://www.railscot.co.uk/Caledonian_Railway/clyde_lamington_tinto.jpg[/img] [img size=550]http://www.heraldscotland.com/resources/images/3815176.jpg[/img] While primarily it is set in summer 1984 using the public timetable, the source data for freight includes working timetables from 1982 - 1984 along with a 1979 trip notice, therefore it is not accurate to any one day. Additionally some reporting number sequences have been simplified. The full timetable will chain to Cowlairs and CSCOT 1984 timetables, but it is not compatible with the Edinburgh 1985 timetable from Agilchrist etc. although it will be similar in many respects. With thanks to Peter for providing the era and the folks at www.scot-rail.co.uk for a lot of the background information, enjoy ! Bill Last edited: 09/01/2016 at 14:10 by bill_gensheet Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Splodge, jeffh16, tjfrancis, 320322, officer dibble |
| 1984 Timetable released 09/01/2016 at 16:01 #79749 | |
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bill_gensheet
1314 posts |
Sorry folks I had not realised how old the release sim is. There are two problems: ARS paths to Carstairs reversal point documented above Entry and exits on the Shotts line moved to Midcalder Jn (Shotts Line) which does not exist in 4.2.3 An edited timetable is attached to address these points but be aware that this will then fail when the sim updates. Bill Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Last edited: 09/01/2016 at 23:52 by bill_gensheet Log in to reply The following users said thank you: 320322, officer dibble |
| 1984 Timetable released 09/01/2016 at 19:44 #79753 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
" said:Sorry folks I had not realised how old the release sim is.Nice WTT, up to 2:35 so far, some trains have no timing points after Benhar Jn heading on the up, could be the old sim version? Also 6S98 and 8B78 both seem to want to be in UR3 at the same time! Last edited: 09/01/2016 at 19:45 by Sacro Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 09/01/2016 at 21:33 #79757 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
 Getting busy now... Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: officer dibble |
| 1984 Timetable released 09/01/2016 at 21:39 #79758 | |
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bill_gensheet
1314 posts |
I chose not to 'correct' those trains after Benhar with a West Calder location, they will drop off anyway. The receptions are quite long, so will take two shorter trains such as 8B78. I found it best to keep a sticky note with the loop contents especially about where you are as there's light engines lying about too. 0300 is quite a fun time, especially with the splitting actions at Mossend and Carstairs. Glad you are liking it Bill Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 09/01/2016 at 21:52 #79759 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
" said:I chose not to 'correct' those trains after Benhar with a West Calder location, they will drop off anyway.Nope, the trains stop at Benhar and state "No more timetabled locations". Yeah, I need to look up the lengths, make more efficient use of what I have, I've cleared it up mostly! Yep, got someone else running Carstairs, he's busy too! Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 09/01/2016 at 22:00 #79760 | |
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officer dibble
390 posts |
Having a blast with this TT Bill! Top work! :cheer: I have an awesome queue coming in from Carlisle, they decided to send a Cl.4 out in front of everything, delightful! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Noisynoel |
| 1984 Timetable released 09/01/2016 at 23:53 #79765 | |
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bill_gensheet
1314 posts |
attachment edited For those already running, insert a West Calder time 10 minutes after Benhar Jn and you won't be far out Bill Log in to reply The following user said thank you: officer dibble |
| 1984 Timetable released 12/01/2016 at 20:37 #79815 | |
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Ray
211 posts 
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Can someone please explain to me (like I'm a six year old) what is happening at the first split at Carstairs involving the 1S04? What I get is a loco attaching from rear to form a train which goes off to Edinburgh (OK I get this bit). But the front portion seems to want to form 2 trains each with the same descriptors 1S04. Cant work out why there are two trains with the same descriptors. What I was expecting was an electric loco detaching there with a descriptor like 0S04E and the diesel loco attaching with a descriptor like 0S04D to form 1S04 going to Glasgow Central. Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 13/01/2016 at 16:51 #79834 | |
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WesternChampion
173 posts |
Firstly, thanks to Bill for a great timetable, you might say a piece of our industrial history. In answer to Ray's query, I've just got to this point in the timetable and I think what should happen is as follows: 1S04 arrives from the south and divides into three. 0B04 reverses at Signal 418, couples on to the southernmost portion and departs for Edinburgh. The front portion, still coupled to the train engine, departs for Glasgow. 0P06 reverses at Signal 406, couples on to the middle portion and departs for Perth. Like you (and me!), ARS is confused by the presence of two 1S04s and, if not prevented from doing so, sends 0P06 onto the front of the train before 1S04 has left. It is necessary to turn off ARS or collar 406 until the Glasgow portion has left in order to prevent this. Hope this helps. Chris Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 13/01/2016 at 22:35 #79847 | |
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Ray
211 posts
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Many thanks Chris for answering my enquiry about the splitting of a service at Carstairs. Your explanation was very comprehensive. ARS does sometimes interfere with the process and it gets very confusing. I kinda worked it all out eventually by going to very low sim speed and collaring the signals involved with the joins to prevent unwanted or premature movements. I also became aware that the descriptors of the two or three parts sometimes needed to be ignored at times and I concentrated my attention more on the train list descriptions. I found that using sticky labels with the full descriptors was a help e.g. 1S04P01 and 1S04P02. A word of advise - when a complex split is about to happen, save the game so you can return to the last position without much difficulty. Also thank you Bill for an excellent timetable. I love timetables with splits and joins as I find they are much more satisfying and there are plenty of these in this timetable. Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 14/01/2016 at 00:15 #79851 | |
postal
5190 posts |
" said:A word of advise - when a complex split is about to happen, save the game so you can return to the last position without much difficulty.Or set the Autosave option on the Control tab when you use F3. That will only save at 10 minute (or longer) intervals, but it always gives you a comparatively recent reference point if you need to go back. You can always delete the saves at the end of the session if your hard disk space is at a premium. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 14/01/2016 at 12:19 #79855 | |
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John 23
173 posts |
Got as far as 0018! Now with 1M16 at 324 awaiting 0M16E which is standing at 317. On trying to clear 317 to 305 and then to 301 to attach, I get the response "No overlap available". I see no reason for it to be unavailable. I'm running the latest editions of everything except the loader. :silly: Similar problem with 0D99 / 6D99 Can someone advise, please? Thanks in anticipation. Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 14/01/2016 at 19:51 #79860 | |
Andrew G
548 posts
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While Bill has made some temporary corrections to the WTT (available via a link further up this thread) a few minor gremlins in the simulation need corrected. In this case you will need to set the route from 315 to 301 - manually lock the points in the position required and then talk the driver past Signal 317 or 321. For any routes into the Up Reception Sidings or Loco Holding Point you need to set the route from 313 first, then set the route from 317 or 315, where appropriate finishing with 321. Hope this makes sense. Basically you signal all loco swaps and arrivals unless these are on the Up Coatbridge in which case follow the instructions above. Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 15/01/2016 at 20:00 #79881 | |
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bill_gensheet
1314 posts |
The joins from 317 work if you let the ARS do its' thing and set the route for you. Just be sure to collar signals until you are happy for it to fire (ie the diesel TD is in there and it has a route away). If anything is late you may find the electric backing onto the diesel that is still uncoupling ! regards Bill Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 15/01/2016 at 23:06 #79887 | |
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Andrew G
548 posts
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" said:The joins from 317 work if you let the ARS do its' thing and set the route for you. Just be sure to collar signals until you are happy for it to fire (ie the diesel TD is in there and it has a route away).Bill, Scratching my head on this one - how can ARS set a route when I can't set the same route manually with ARS disabled? So I started a new session with ARS on and waited to see ARS crack the puzzle with the first engine swap on the Up Coatbridge - 1M16. To no avail - OM16E stuck at 317 "Waiting for route RMY317BS to become available". Can I ask - have you actually had a successful engine swap on the Up Coatbridge - with the current release version of the simulation - rather than a later test version? Andrew Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 16/01/2016 at 15:07 #79902 | |
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bill_gensheet
1314 posts |
Unfortunately the release sim is the only one with this problem. Earlier versions (test and full) were Ok, as are later test ones, so for now it looks like PSAD is the only option. Reversals via 321 and 323 have the same issue. While it has been a very difficult area due to eras, still my fault for believing that I was testing on 'release sim plus one known major alteration', which incidentally is removing entry to down reception and signals M312/320//328. Bill Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 16/01/2016 at 15:12 #79903 | |
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Andrew G
548 posts
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" said:Unfortunately the release sim is the only one with this problem. Earlier versions (test and full) were Ok, as are later test ones, so for now it looks like PSAD is the only option. Reversals via 321 and 323 have the same issue.Thanks for confirming this - I just wanted to check in case I was missing a trick somewhere. Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 19/01/2016 at 21:57 #79974 | |
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Andrew G
548 posts
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Making good progress through this excellent WTT which provides quite a different feel to Motherwell than the modern era. One observation is there is quite a lot of work to do for the host on occasions. For example there isn't much use of 'Set down only' for Freight Trains. This can lead to a Freight Train ringing out of a loop or yard early, Signaller checks no conflicts and runs the train only to find the same train wanting to wait for time at its first reversing or stopping point (e.g. Trip Freight leaving Lanark Yard via GF). Another example is a freight arriving early at Mossend where the incoming loco disposes to the Yard or Motherwell TMD. It is unlikely the crew will wait around for their booked time - more likely they will hook off and ask for the road asap so they can book off early. Perhaps any future updates might look at this issue. Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 19/01/2016 at 23:35 #79975 | |
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postal
5190 posts |
" said:Making good progress through this excellent WTT which provides quite a different feel to Motherwell than the modern era.I'm not sure that this is an issue under the control of the TT writer. There are lots of moves where the real world operation would see things happen as soon as the road is given. Even if you set things as 'set down only' and include the same stipulation at every point thereafter in the TT, from time to time the SimSig train/loco will just down tools and wait for booked time. This can be embarrassing if you are expecting things to run like they would in a real world where a RR loco wouldn't suddenly sit and wait for time on the main line before going back into the loop to join or a train with someone on job and finish suddenly sits and waits for time. Perhaps we need an additional TT option to "depart as soon as possible" as well as "set down only". “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 19/01/2016 at 23:58 #79976 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:Even if you set things as 'set down only' and include the same stipulation at every point thereafter in the TT, from time to time the SimSig train/loco will just down tools and wait for booked time.Do they actually do that though? I don't recall ever having seen a train set as "set down only" wait time, despite having tried quite hard to make them do so! The wiki explicitly states "Set Down Only- [...] if this is selected, the train will not wait for departure time". (Of course, that doesn't mean that there hasn't been a core code alteration recently, for certain values of "recently" dependent on how bad my memory is!) Last edited: 20/01/2016 at 00:01 by Danny252 Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 20/01/2016 at 00:30 #79977 | |
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postal
5190 posts |
" said:" said:I can't bring up saved games or definitive information but I am pretty sure I have seen things come to a grinding halt while something with a set down only tag has waited for time. Andrew G also seems to have had the same issue which caused his last post. I would be ever grateful if I (and Andrew G) could be proved wrong. If I am wrong, it would be an evil wrinkle to be able to set a "set down only but may wait for booked time" option.Even if you set things as 'set down only' and include the same stipulation at every point thereafter in the TT, from time to time the SimSig train/loco will just down tools and wait for booked time.Do they actually do that though? I don't recall ever having seen a train set as "set down only" wait time, despite having tried quite hard to make them do so! The wiki explicitly states "Set Down Only- [...] if this is selected, the train will not wait for departure time". “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 20/01/2016 at 00:35 by postal Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 20/01/2016 at 08:50 #79978 | |
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kbarber
1712 posts |
" said:" said:" said:I can't bring up saved games or definitive information but I am pretty sure I have seen things come to a grinding halt while something with a set down only tag has waited for time. Andrew G also seems to have had the same issue which caused his last post. I would be ever grateful if I (and Andrew G) could be proved wrong. If I am wrong, it would be an evil wrinkle to be able to set a "set down only but may wait for booked time" option.Even if you set things as 'set down only' and include the same stipulation at every point thereafter in the TT, from time to time the SimSig train/loco will just down tools and wait for booked time.Do they actually do that though? I don't recall ever having seen a train set as "set down only" wait time, despite having tried quite hard to make them do so! The wiki explicitly states "Set Down Only- [...] if this is selected, the train will not wait for departure time". I refer the Hon Gentleman to my previous posting about drivers trying to make overtime. Seriously, if that's going to be a feature, I'd say it needs to be linked to the 'Set down only' feature via a tick option, so certain trains may be given this (random) behaviour but others will never show it. (Just like the Bescot guard I knew... nice enough bloke with a Brummie Irish accent that was just about incomprehensible but... When I was in the Brent our hearts sank when we saw him come in on the loco for 6M92 (or was it 6M94?). However carefully the Tapper had gone over the train, he would always find something. Always! And we'd be lucky to get it away less than 20 late. His colleagues, on the other hand, seemed to regard taking a tail lamp down and doing the brake test as an imposition on their determination to get back home as soon as possible.) Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 20/01/2016 at 15:18 #79985 | |
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Andrew G
548 posts
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" said:I would be ever grateful if I (and Andrew G) could be proved wrong.I can't be 100% certain but think I might have seen cases where a 'Set Down' early has waited for booked time and the tag description does say 'May' leave early. Conversely my gut feel tells me it works more often than not. In my Paisley 1983 WTT I have made quite extensive use of this option for local trip freights - I'll keep an eye out next time I run it. Last edited: 20/01/2016 at 15:18 by Andrew G Log in to reply |
| 1984 Timetable released 20/01/2016 at 16:10 #79989 | |
Steamer
3921 posts |
" said:" said:Pascal has made use of this a lot in his West Hampstead TT. When I ran it (on Beginner mode), the various ECS moves in the Luton are almost always moved off early, as did anything else with a set down time. I say 'almost always', I can't guarantee it was every time, but it was the majority of the time.I would be ever grateful if I (and Andrew G) could be proved wrong.I can't be 100% certain but think I might have seen cases where a 'Set Down' early has waited for booked time and the tag description does say 'May' leave early. Conversely my gut feel tells me it works more often than not. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |