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Technician status display

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Technician status display 13/06/2016 at 16:18 #83033
hawke666
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It would be nice to have a display that would show technician "work orders" with status and ETA (e.g. enroute, in process, testing, complete)

It's not completely clear to me how the technicians work (is there one team of technicians such that only one problem can be worked on at a time, or do all problems simply last for a certain amount of time?). If technicians do not work in parallel it might also be nice to allow manual prioritization of the tech teams so that problems can be fixed in the order you prefer rather than in the order that they appear.

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Technician status display 13/06/2016 at 19:06 #83040
bfcmik
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Difficult to assign priorities if your technician in in a van 20 or 30 miles away heading for the 1st failure.

Some of the screens cover 40 or 50 route miles (possibly more) with Carlisle, for example having over 100 miles of the WCML.

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Technician status display 13/06/2016 at 20:33 #83044
hawke666
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Obviously it might take some time to redirect to a new failure. But if that means less time a main-line failure is in effect it might be worth it.

(This all hinges on whether the technicians are modeled with that level of detail, as opposed to being a simple timer for each failure, i.e. a track circuit failure always takes 45 minutes to fix).

Even if they are just a simple timer it would be kinda neat if they had some statuses, e.g. the first third of the timer is enroute, then 1/6th "arrived", another third "fixing problem", 1/6th "testing". (Pulling numbers out of thin air, but the concept is there)

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Technician status display 13/06/2016 at 20:49 #83045
Red For Danger
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I've always thought it would be good to have a system in place so that if a failure was close to another one that has just been fixed then it would result in a reduced 'fix' period as the technicians would have less distance to travel.

Not sure if this is possible with the current code, but could be something for future updates....?

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Technician status display 13/06/2016 at 21:04 #83046
DaveHarries
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1266 posts
I think the idea of a technician status display is a good one.

Dave

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Technician status display 13/06/2016 at 21:06 #83047
Lardybiker
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771 posts
First thing to remember, SimSig is a signaling simulation first and foremost.

As for the failures, here's how they work. There are no 'technicians' in SimSig. Failures are simply dealt with based on the simulation options that have been set at the time.

An object, such as a point or signal, will fail based on...
1) If the developer has marked the object to be allowed to fail
2) If the number of failures currently active in the sim is less than value in the maximum number of failures option.
3) The likelihood of a failure occurring set in the SimSig options.

While users cannot affect (1), both (2) and (3) can be changed at any time during a session from the F3 options menu.

Once an object has been deemed to have failed, the simulation merely applies a random timeout based on the length of failures option in the sim. The randomness of the timeout represents a combination of the time it takes S&T to get someone to the location of the failure, find the fault and then of course, actually fix it. When multiple failures have occurred, the timeouts all run simultaneously. Once the timeout on a failure is completed, the object is deemed to have been fixed, the object automatically returns to normal operation and the simulation informs you accordingly.

I don't think signalers have much sway if any to set priorities for S&T to fix failures in real life and that being so, such a feature wouldn't really fit with SimSig's simulation of an IECC.

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Technician status display 13/06/2016 at 21:25 #83049
GeoffM
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It's a difficult one as different sim areas have different technician coverage. Somewhere like Liverpool Street might have a fairly rapid response most of the time but pick another area and there might be two teams based at X and a third at Y, but the one at Y is only there during the day.

Ideally there would likely be a block requested for a period of time on whatever item they want to fix. Let's say they change the lamp in a signal. Which lines should be closed - it might be too close to another running line?

We could imrpove things by asking for points to be swung for testing purposes. Test the signal lamp by trying to get the signal to show that aspect (not always possible without either somebody dropping a TC some distance ahead).

Lots of ideas but also lots of corner cases to consider.

SimSig Boss
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Technician status display 14/06/2016 at 13:53 #83059
hawke666
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" said:
Once an object has been deemed to have failed, the simulation merely applies a random timeout based on the length of failures option in the sim. The randomness of the timeout represents a combination of the time it takes S&T to get someone to the location of the failure, find the fault and then of course, actually fix it. When multiple failures have occurred, the timeouts all run simultaneously. Once the timeout on a failure is completed, the object is deemed to have been fixed, the object automatically returns to normal operation and the simulation informs you accordingly.

I don't think signalers have much sway if any to set priorities for S&T to fix failures in real life and that being so, such a feature wouldn't really fit with SimSig's simulation of an IECC.
Thanks for the explanation; I kind of figured that was how it worked, though as I have never seen failures get repaired out of order I wasn't sure if there was a single failure queue or if all repairing effectively ran in parallel.

Even without being able to set priorities, I do think it would add to the immersion to have a display of what the fake-technicians might be doing at any given time (and even more so if they demanded a bit of interaction with the signaller as GeoffM suggested)

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Technician status display 14/06/2016 at 16:33 #83060
Stephen Fulcher
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2023 posts
" said:


It's not completely clear to me how the technicians work (is there one team of technicians such that only one problem can be worked on at a time, or do all problems simply last for a certain amount of time?).
The number of teams of Technicians available will depend on the area involved. From Par in Cornwall, we cover all the way from the outskirts of Totnes to Penzance plus the branch lines. There is only one designated "fault" team on duty to respond to failures over that area, but often more "maintenance" teams area also available to respond to faults if the need arises.

Whilst not impossible, teams do not normally work on more than one fault at a time. It is fairly rare to get two faults in the same area at the same time, and it is impracticable to attend two faults in different areas as one team will never have enough staff for that. Where more than one fault exists at the time, the order to attend them is often obvious, for instance a points failure locking up a major station will take priority over the phone not working on a signal somewhere. Where there are more disruptive faults then the Technician will make a judgement on what to attend first based on conversations with the Signallers and Route Control.

Even the time taken to fix the faults is infinitely variable. The same fault could take a vastly different amount of time to fix dependent on which Technician attends, the amount of trains running at the time, and any other number of factors.

The other thing to consider is that what the Signaller sees on the panel can have any number of causes. 99% of signal lamp failures will result in the Technician simply replacing the lamp which takes about one minute, but if the local rat population decide to chew through the cable it will likely take a few hours to sort out.

The ideas GeoffM suggests are good, also there are a couple more failure modes that could be interesting, for instance a route that won't set even though it should, or a signal that won't clear for no apparent reason, sets of points locking up for no apparent reason etc.

EDIT: I should also add that if the Signaller wants to know what is going on with a specific fault he will just ring up the Technician and ask, there certainly isn't any complicated display available to them to see what is going on!

Last edited: 14/06/2016 at 16:34 by Stephen Fulcher
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Technician status display 14/06/2016 at 23:20 #83069
hawke666
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16 posts
" said:
Whilst not impossible, teams do not normally work on more than one fault at a time. It is fairly rare to get two faults in the same area at the same time, and it is impracticable to attend two faults in different areas as one team will never have enough staff for that. Where more than one fault exists at the time, the order to attend them is often obvious, for instance a points failure locking up a major station will take priority over the phone not working on a signal somewhere. Where there are more disruptive faults then the Technician will make a judgement on what to attend first based on conversations with the Signallers and Route Control.

EDIT: I should also add that if the Signaller wants to know what is going on with a specific fault he will just ring up the Technician and ask, there certainly isn't any complicated display available to them to see what is going on!
Yeah, I was talking about the in-game "technician" concept -- real life is of course a lot more flexible and complex.

The display doesn't necessarily need to be complicated. A simple table of "crew 1 ... enroute to signal failure at XXY ETA 2:15 / crew 2 ... testing track circuit XYZ Est. complete 5 min." would suffice.

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Technician status display 15/06/2016 at 07:01 #83073
Peter Bennet
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5357 posts
" said:
" said:
Whilst not impossible, teams do not normally work on more than one fault at a time. It is fairly rare to get two faults in the same area at the same time, and it is impracticable to attend two faults in different areas as one team will never have enough staff for that. Where more than one fault exists at the time, the order to attend them is often obvious, for instance a points failure locking up a major station will take priority over the phone not working on a signal somewhere. Where there are more disruptive faults then the Technician will make a judgement on what to attend first based on conversations with the Signallers and Route Control.

EDIT: I should also add that if the Signaller wants to know what is going on with a specific fault he will just ring up the Technician and ask, there certainly isn't any complicated display available to them to see what is going on!
Yeah, I was talking about the in-game "technician" concept -- real life is of course a lot more flexible and complex.

The display doesn't necessarily need to be complicated. A simple table of "crew 1 ... enroute to signal failure at XXY ETA 2:15 / crew 2 ... testing track circuit XYZ Est. complete 5 min." would suffice.
This is done on a bespoke basis by Clive in Cambridge and the principle copied into Edinburgh and I think Paisley and NEScotland and to slightly a different end Victoria Line.

Peter

I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Technician status display 15/06/2016 at 14:55 #83079
2W34
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58 posts
Perhaps i'm digressing a little here, if I am apologies.

To me SimSig "wants" you to run trains through a failure such as a TC failure or a signal failure (basically any instance where the train CAN pass under instruction, but will meet with delay). I have noticed in the real world, if we take a 4 track railway for example, NR prefer to route most trains onto the adjacent, failure free line (so if you have a Up Fast TC failure, route all trains via the Up Slow). However, they seem to route maybe 1 in every 5 trains through the failure. Perhaps this is to assist the technicians in testing the problem?

I should add that it is not unknown and infact quite common for all lines to be blocked while technicians access a TC failure. They don't seem that bad in SimSig but certainly I have known a TC failure to be a job stopped event. This will usually be something like a broken rail or serious damage though.


With TC failures you could in theory use the "examine the line" instruction as a pretend test train for yourself and the technician?

Last edited: 15/06/2016 at 14:57 by 2W34
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Technician status display 15/06/2016 at 15:35 #83080
KymriskaDraken
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963 posts
" said:

With TC failures you could in theory use the "examine the line" instruction as a pretend test train for yourself and the technician?
There is no "in theory" about it. Module TS11 of the Rule Book is quite clear about the procedure to be adopted if a track circuit shows occupied when it should be clear. Section 16, Clause 16.1 says:

If a track circuit fails to clear after the passage of a train or shows
occupied for some other reason, you must arrange for the line to
be examined.



Kev

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Technician status display 15/06/2016 at 16:03 #83081
2W34
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Kev

What I meant was, once you'd carried out the initial examination you could then have another train perhaps 30 mins later carry out an examination for the benefit of the technicians.

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Technician status display 15/06/2016 at 16:43 #83082
KymriskaDraken
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I can see that a tech would ask the Signalman to observe the passage of a train through the affected area (for example to make sure that the "fixed" track circuit is indeed fixed) but I very much doubt if they would ask for an examination.



Kev

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Technician status display 15/06/2016 at 18:54 #83086
Stephen Fulcher
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2023 posts
There would be little point in asking for an examination of the line after its been fixed.
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Technician status display 16/06/2016 at 05:50 #83090
Peter Bennet
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I've never seen a broken rail but I envisage it as a fracture rather than a huge chunk of metal missing, though I suppose it could be either. How observable that would be from a train inspection I question.

Peter

I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Technician status display 16/06/2016 at 08:15 #83091
kbarber
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1711 posts
" said:
I've never seen a broken rail but I envisage it as a fracture rather than a huge chunk of metal missing, though I suppose it could be either. How observable that would be from a train inspection I question.

Peter

Yes, normally just a fracture. Surprisingly noticeable, it will appear as a distinct dark line across the otherwise continuous polished line of the rail head.

Missing chunks tend to be associated with jointed track rather than CWR. I think they're known as 'star' fractures (I may well be wrong), and tend to propagate out from fishplate bolt holes. It was a fracture of that kind that was the immediate cause of the terrible Hither Green derailment of 1967.

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Technician status display 16/06/2016 at 09:15 #83092
northroad
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870 posts
" said:
I've never seen a broken rail but I envisage it as a fracture rather than a huge chunk of metal missing, though I suppose it could be either. How observable that would be from a train inspection I question.

Peter

Try this one for size Peter.

As per usual with any news story you either believe what they are claiming or you don't.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-20577690

Geoff

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Technician status display 16/06/2016 at 11:44 #83093
Stephen Fulcher
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2023 posts
Broken rails are often reported by drivers complaining of a rough ride, which will require trains to be cautioned until the P-Way inspect the line irrespective of whether or not the examining train can see anything.

The example shown above isn't as bad as it looks - the bolts through the rail indicate a joint so at least its held together even with a chunk of the head missing. No way they would be running over it though.

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Technician status display 16/06/2016 at 22:08 #83096
RainbowNines
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272 posts
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547c8fc1ed915d4c0d000161/R242014_141113_ECML_Rail_Breaks.pdf

RAIB did a class investigation into breaks on the ECML, pasted above. Think one of those refers to the pic posted.

https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/derailment-at-porthkerry

And this one was less of a break and more of a total structural failure of a rail, with rather spectacular results.

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Technician status display 16/06/2016 at 22:46 #83097
AndyG
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1834 posts
Nah, this is what you call a proper rail break:-

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