Loader Update Issues - Solutions

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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 10/07/2017 at 19:49 #96297
JamesN
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1575 posts 		postal in post 96295 said:
A whole thread full of comments from technically literate and involved people. Nothing has yet addressed how to make it understandable for paying customers who do not fit that profile. It is all very well saying that the information is already there but it is clearly not presented in a fashion that a lot of users understand or appreciate. If it was, there wouldn't be as many queries and complaints on the Forum.

How do we arrange things so that people such as those who have had trouble with the Plymouth or Oxford updates don't have problems in the future? It's not just a case of Geoff being on top of the SimSig side of the house; don't forget the unlimited capacity for Microsoft to block something which currently works and which may require a similar exercise of download and re-install. I've tried with some suggestions which have been shown to be technically infeasible but I'm not sure that no change is a tenable position.
One user has commented that they struggled, they asked for help on the fourm and that resolved their problem. The implication that there is some silent majority who all struggle but are for whatever reason incapable/unwilling to voice their problems sounds grossly implausible.

The phrase "mountains out of sand grains" springs to mind....
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 10/07/2017 at 20:52 #96300
clive
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2738 posts 		postal in post 96295 said:

How do we arrange things so that people such as those who have had trouble with the Plymouth or Oxford updates don't have problems in the future?
I've seen one suggestion which, with some modifications, I hope Geoff will pick up on (this is his area, not mine).

Here's what I would like to see. On the server there's a location for a file for each version of the loader; the file for version 4.6.22 might be called alert.4.6.22.html. The first time the loader is run each day, or whenever the update button is pressed, the loader checks on the server for that file. If it finds it, it causes the contents to be displayed on the user's screen (whether within the loader window or in a separate browser window is irrelevant). This can then be used to alert users that they need to do something unusual (e.g. because Microsoft has broken things for us again).

This can't be retro-fitted to 4.6.4 or earlier, but it would be available for all future versions.
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 10/07/2017 at 21:24 #96303
postal
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5190 posts 		JamesN in post 96297 said:
The phrase "mountains out of sand grains" springs to mind....
James

Peter found six different posts raised regarding problems in this one thread. There are other topics raised previously that also covered the same ground never mind the questions on the ShoutBox. Maybe it's not my head that's in the sand . . .
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 11/07/2017 at 12:00 by postal
Reason: None given
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 10/07/2017 at 22:50 #96311
Peter Bennet
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5360 posts 		postal in post 96303 said:
JamesN in post 96297 said:
The phrase "mountains out of sand grains" springs to mind....
James

Peter found six different posts raised regarding problems in this one thread. There are other topics raised previously that also covered the same ground. Maybe it's not my head that's in the sand . . .
I think it's true to say I found six different posts that collectively made no sense to me. I suspect because we were discussing two different issues - what exactly was the problem and solution and how to communicate that to users.

It's also fair to say that there are a number recurring questions asked on the forum, many of which are covered in FAQs, manuals etc. The danger with trying to highlight one specific issue is that you then find previously highlighted issues drop off the radar or you have so many issues in FAQ that you lose them and need a VFAQ to sift them and so it goes on.

It's also fair to say that the SimSig population that need to update their loader to 4.6.3 and thereafter is shrinking all the time without new people replacing them because they can't.

Peter
I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 10/07/2017 at 23:48 #96314
postal
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5190 posts 		Peter Bennet in post 96311 said:
It's also fair to say that the SimSig population that need to update their loader to 4.6.3 and thereafter is shrinking all the time without new people replacing them because they can't.

Peter
Until we get to the new cadre who haven't updated from vX.X.X when Microsoft next swing their wrecking-ball.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 11/07/2017 at 00:19 #96315
MarkC
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1089 posts 		postal in post 96314 said:
Peter Bennet in post 96311 said:
It's also fair to say that the SimSig population that need to update their loader to 4.6.3 and thereafter is shrinking all the time without new people replacing them because they can't.

Peter
Until we get to the new cadre who haven't updated from vX.X.X when Microsoft next swing their wrecking-ball.
I am taking a guess at this but I think from now (from version4.6.3) on updating thing's shoudn't be to bad.

from memory 4.5.8 and before the update is not compatable with the current update location/format on the server and that was the reason for having to download the system files again, the issue of the loader not closing when the updater was launched was a version prior to 4.5.8, but cannot remember which.

From 4.6.0 the updater started to create a backup file in the program files directory where the SimSig system files are stored (to add new files/copy you have to have elevated rights) and to carry this process out needed admin rights to do so but updater never asked for elevated rights, this I belive was fixed in 4.6.3 so update prompts for elevated rights on lauching.

So unless the update loction/format on the server is changed again, updating from 4.6.3 should not be a problem. The only other reason for it not working in the future would be an inadvertant change to the updater that caused it to stop asking for elevated rights.
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 11/07/2017 at 01:01 #96317
postal
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5190 posts 		mark265 in post 96315 said:
So unless the update loction/format on the server is changed again, updating from 4.6.3 should not be a problem. The only other reason for it not working in the future would be an inadvertant change to the updater that caused it to stop asking for elevated rights.
Whether there are any other issues at stake or not, your premise relies on a stable Windows environment.

I admire your optimism but refer you to a sign Ron Dennis (formerly of McLaren F1 Team) used to have on his desk.

"The difference between an optimist and a pessimist is that an optimist is not in full possession of the facts".
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 11/07/2017 at 01:16 #96318
MarkC
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1089 posts 		My premise is based on the problems with updating and elevated rights which has been resolved, I will admit one option I didn't consider when writing my previous statement was the possibility that Microsoft may one day prevent 3rd party software vendors being able to release software to install/run on windows,
Last edited: 11/07/2017 at 01:17 by MarkC
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 17/07/2017 at 19:59 #96460
jimbolimbo9
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11 posts 		I'm currently running the loader on version 4.6.3. When I click 'Check for updates' I allow it to use admin privileges, and click 'Update automatically'. After doing this, every single file it tries to update flashes the message underneath "File not found on server.". Once it reaches the end of the update it says that the update was completed successfully. I restart SimSig and nothing has changed, I'm still on 4.6.3. Does anyone know why this is happening? Could it be something to do with my OS? (I'm running on Vista.)
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 18/07/2017 at 09:46 #96469
nimbus32a
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21 posts 		I Have loaded the latest loader but I am unable to Download Kings cross properly> Every time I Download KX my computer says it has been down loaded but when I go to look in the file it is not there can some one please explain as to what I am doing wrong this despite following YOUR INSTRUCTIONS
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 18/07/2017 at 10:41 #96470
postal
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5190 posts 		nimbus32a in post 96469 said:
I Have loaded the latest loader but I am unable to Download Kings cross properly> Every time I Download KX my computer says it has been down loaded but when I go to look in the file it is not there can some one please explain as to what I am doing wrong this despite following YOUR INSTRUCTIONS
PLEASE DON'T SHOUT. PEOPLE WILL TRY AND HELP BUT BEING RUDE BEFORE YOU GET HELP ISN'T GOING TO ASSIST YOUR CASE.

As a starting point have you run the Loader and checked whether Kings Cross shows in the list of sims available for you to load?
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 18/07/2017 at 10:43 by postal
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 18/07/2017 at 12:40 #96471
JamesN
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1575 posts 		nimbus32a in post 96469 said:
I Have loaded the latest loader but I am unable to Download Kings cross properly> Every time I Download KX my computer says it has been down loaded but when I go to look in the file it is not there can some one please explain as to what I am doing wrong this despite following YOUR INSTRUCTIONS
What do you mean it isn't there? Where are you looking and what do you think are you looking for?
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 18/07/2017 at 13:31 #96473
Peter Bennet
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5360 posts 		JamesN in post 96471 said:
nimbus32a in post 96469 said:
I Have loaded the latest loader but I am unable to Download Kings cross properly> Every time I Download KX my computer says it has been down loaded but when I go to look in the file it is not there can some one please explain as to what I am doing wrong this despite following YOUR INSTRUCTIONS
What do you mean it isn't there? Where are you looking and what do you think are you looking for?
Have you done a search for "Kingscross.sim"? or however it's formatted.

Peter
I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 22/07/2017 at 00:00 #96537
postal
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5190 posts 		nimbus32a in post 96469 said:
I Have loaded the latest loader but I am unable to Download Kings cross properly> Every time I Download KX my computer says it has been down loaded but when I go to look in the file it is not there can some one please explain as to what I am doing wrong this despite following YOUR INSTRUCTIONS
Comment from a moderator on another Forum I visit:

"It is rather noticeable when someone starts a thread then ignores it for four days. Also rude and insulting to the many who reply."
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 22/07/2017 at 08:40 #96541
Peter Bennet
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5360 posts 		postal in post 96537 said:
nimbus32a in post 96469 said:
I Have loaded the latest loader but I am unable to Download Kings cross properly> Every time I Download KX my computer says it has been down loaded but when I go to look in the file it is not there can some one please explain as to what I am doing wrong this despite following YOUR INSTRUCTIONS
Comment from a moderator on another Forum I visit:

"It is rather noticeable when someone starts a thread then ignores it for four days. Also rude and insulting to the many who reply."

This thread implies it's all fixed now (Kings Cross- wise)
https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/43816?postId=96540

Peter
I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 22/07/2017 at 09:19 #96543
northroad
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870 posts 		You might be right to implie that Peter but had the original poster of the problem come back to Postals question then we would all know for definite if it was resolved. I can understand the frustration of some users on the forum when this does not happen but sadly others do not see it that way.

Geoff
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 23/07/2017 at 06:23 #96557
Giantray
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330 posts 		I too have noticed a lot of "customers" are buying the product then download and find problems. Perhaps there should be something that says to the buyer, before buying, download and install product and run in demo mode. This way they will not be so irate, or quick to complain as they have not parted with any money. Also add a check list for the layman to understand, that lists the various things that need to be checked if a product does not run.
Retired Professional Railwayman (1981-2023); Pway & S&T (1981-88); Former Signalman/Signaller/ Signalling Trainer (1989-2023) [AB, TCB, Mechanical, NX, WestCad, Hitachi SARS]; Railway Historian (esp.SER, LCDR); Member of The Permanent Way Institution..
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 23/07/2017 at 06:23 #96558
Giantray
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330 posts 		I too have noticed a lot of "customers" are buying the product then download and find problems. Perhaps there should be something that says to the buyer, before buying, download and install product and run in demo mode. This way they will not be so irate, or quick to complain as they have not parted with any money. Also add a check list for the layman to understand, that lists the various things that need to be checked if a product does not run.
Retired Professional Railwayman (1981-2023); Pway & S&T (1981-88); Former Signalman/Signaller/ Signalling Trainer (1989-2023) [AB, TCB, Mechanical, NX, WestCad, Hitachi SARS]; Railway Historian (esp.SER, LCDR); Member of The Permanent Way Institution..
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 15/08/2017 at 16:15 #101051
jimbolimbo9
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11 posts 		jimbolimbo9 in post 96460 said:
I'm currently running the loader on version 4.6.3. When I click 'Check for updates' I allow it to use admin privileges, and click 'Update automatically'. After doing this, every single file it tries to update flashes the message underneath "File not found on server.". Once it reaches the end of the update it says that the update was completed successfully. I restart SimSig and nothing has changed, I'm still on 4.6.3. Does anyone know why this is happening? Could it be something to do with my OS? (I'm running on Vista.)
Any ideas on how to solve my issue stated above? Posted it a while back and it seems to have been ignored.
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 16/08/2017 at 02:07 #101068
BarryM
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2158 posts 		jimbolimbo9 in post 101051 said:
jimbolimbo9 in post 96460 said:
I'm currently running the loader on version 4.6.3. When I click 'Check for updates' I allow it to use admin privileges, and click 'Update automatically'. After doing this, every single file it tries to update flashes the message underneath "File not found on server.". Once it reaches the end of the update it says that the update was completed successfully. I restart SimSig and nothing has changed, I'm still on 4.6.3. Does anyone know why this is happening? Could it be something to do with my OS? (I'm running on Vista.)
Any ideas on how to solve my issue stated above? Posted it a while back and it seems to have been ignored.
Sorry for the delay. You need to start from scratch. Download the Official Software which should update to Loader version 4.6 4.

Vista handles the Loader a little differently. You need to find your Simsig folder. Once you have found it, note its location on your C drive. Start the Loader and click on Folder Options and Add the locations of your Simsig folder and subfolders. Tick the box's and click Ok.

I hope it fixes your problem.

Barry

E&OE
Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 16/08/2017 at 17:35 #101085
jimbolimbo9
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11 posts 		Still doesn't work with the instructions you've provided. The photo attached shows what's happening when I update, the "File not found on server" error appears after it tries to update every sim.

Is it possible to download version 4.6.4 without having to download 4.6.3 and update it? The version available online is 4.6.3.
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 16/08/2017 at 17:37 #101086
headshot119
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4869 posts 		I suspect your anti virus or firewall is blocking the download. You may want to try turning them off then doing the update.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 16/08/2017 at 18:07 #101087
jimbolimbo9
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11 posts 		headshot119 in post 101086 said:
I suspect your anti virus or firewall is blocking the download. You may want to try turning them off then doing the update.
Switched off firewall and it made no difference. Unable to switch off my antivirus for some reason as it won't let me (McAfee, running in admin)
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 16/08/2017 at 18:36 #101088
postal
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5190 posts 		jimbolimbo9 in post 101087 said:
headshot119 in post 101086 said:
I suspect your anti virus or firewall is blocking the download. You may want to try turning them off then doing the update.
Switched off firewall and it made no difference. Unable to switch off my antivirus for some reason as it won't let me (McAfee, running in admin)
Given the other posts on the Forum where people have had various problems (downloading, hosting, updating) with McAfee I suspect we are not going to get much further until you can find a way to temporarily disable McAfee.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 16/08/2017 at 18:40 by postal
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Loader Update Issues - Solutions 16/08/2017 at 19:18 #101089
GeoffM
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6282 posts
Online 		postal in post 101088 said:
jimbolimbo9 in post 101087 said:
headshot119 in post 101086 said:
I suspect your anti virus or firewall is blocking the download. You may want to try turning them off then doing the update.
Switched off firewall and it made no difference. Unable to switch off my antivirus for some reason as it won't let me (McAfee, running in admin)
Given the other posts on the Forum where people have had various problems (downloading, hosting, updating) with McAfee I suspect we are not going to get much further until you can find a way to temporarily disable McAfee.
Odd thing is it's downloaded the manifest file perfectly okay but it won't download even images which is the same URL apart from the end bit.

McAfee ought to have some setting somewhere to whitelist URLs/websites which would be preferable to disabling it completely (even temporarily). But it's McAfee and I won't have that anywhere near my PC so I can't find out more.

Edit: maybe this link would help: here. Since I got there by Googling, and there are no backlinks on that page, I can't tell if it really is for their current Antivirus or for something else.
SimSig Boss
Last edited: 16/08/2017 at 19:49 by GeoffM
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