Peak District absolute block

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Peak District absolute block 15/12/2017 at 17:48 #104045
KymriskaDraken
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Some users have reported having problems with the block instruments on Peak District. I've managed to get myself tied up as well, and the only thing I can think of is that the instruments are a bit "picky". If you don't operate them in exactly the right order, and under the right conditions, it will get confused.

Things to look out for:

* Before box A can give Line Clear to box B the home signal at A and the section signal at A must be at Danger with no route set
* Before box A can give Train out of Section to box B, the train must have passed the home signal at A, occupied and cleared the track circuits within the clearing point, and the home signal must have been returned to Danger with no route set. In addition the section signal at B must be at Danger with no route set.
* Before operating the block release make sure that all signals are at Danger with no route set.

Similar conditions apply to the token instruments. To release or restore the token you must have the signals at either end at Danger with no route set.

If you get locked up, running a train through the section (passing signals at Danger) should reset the block instruments.


Kev

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Peak District absolute block 19/12/2017 at 00:37 #104230
Phil-jmw
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KymriskaDraken in post 104045 said:
Some users have reported having problems with the block instruments on Peak District. I've managed to get myself tied up as well, and the only thing I can think of is that the instruments are a bit "picky". If you don't operate them in exactly the right order, and under the right conditions, it will get confused.

Things to look out for:

* Before box A can give Line Clear to box B the home signal at A and the section signal at A must be at Danger with no route set
* Before box A can give Train out of Section to box B, the train must have passed the home signal at A, occupied and cleared the track circuits within the clearing point, and the home signal must have been returned to Danger with no route set. In addition the section signal at B must be at Danger with no route set.
* Before operating the block release make sure that all signals are at Danger with no route set.

Similar conditions apply to the token instruments. To release or restore the token you must have the signals at either end at Danger with no route set.

If you get locked up, running a train through the section (passing signals at Danger) should reset the block instruments.


Kev
I've just started a new sim using AB. I've just run 6H42 over the Down from Peak Forest to Great Rocks and into Tunstead Reception, followed all your instructions (routes cancelled behind the train, no other routes set) but the block instrument will not go back to normal and the block release CAN button does not work either. I've attached a save.

Phil.

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Peak District absolute block 19/12/2017 at 01:16 #104231
Phil-jmw
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I've just talked 6H45 Peakstone - Tunstead Sdgs through the section but the block still will not reset after the train had passed clear of the section. No routes set, all track circuits clear.
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Peak District absolute block 19/12/2017 at 08:43 #104234
bossman
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The only problem i have with the AB system is between Peak Forest and Great Rocks when 6M15 just enters into Great Rocks' section but doesn't go through the whole section as it only has to reverse behind PF28 signal. I will try to talk the next train through to clear the block.
cliff cook
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Peak District absolute block 19/12/2017 at 09:27 #104235
AndyG
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I see there is an phone call option to call S&T to attend the Block Instruments, but not sure what can be done.
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
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Peak District absolute block 19/12/2017 at 11:35 #104236
jc92
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The phonecall is to reset the token machines
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Peak District absolute block 19/12/2017 at 11:56 #104238
KymriskaDraken
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There have been a few issues reported with the block instruments, and bugs have been raised on mantis for the developer to investigate.


Kev

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Peak District absolute block 19/12/2017 at 13:33 #104241
Phil-jmw
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On the subject of the Absolute Block in this sim, this time what could be deemed a wrong-side failure.

Running the 1987 TT, 8Z39 0420 Earles Sdgs - Widnes is offered from Earles Sdgs to Edale, signalman doesn't notice straight away as he's too busy browsing the internet(!). When he does finally look up he sees both the Line Clear and Train On Line lamps flashing on the Earles to Edale Down block instrument, and 8Z39 rolling gently to a stand at Edale Down Home signal EE2.

Issues arising:-
1. How was Earles Sdgs able to send 8Z39 without the Line Clear request being acknowleged by me?
2. How were the LC and TOL lamps able to flash simultaneously?

In my haste to get a Line Clear from Chinley and pull off I forgot to get a save. I'll try and recreate with the next Down train.

Phil

Last edited: 19/12/2017 at 13:36 by Phil-jmw
Reason: None given

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Peak District absolute block 19/12/2017 at 13:44 #104242
jc92
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In your haste did you remember to send 6 bells to earles sidings? 😂
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Peak District absolute block 19/12/2017 at 14:07 #104244
Phil-jmw
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jc92 in post 104242 said:
In your haste did you remember to send 6 bells to earles sidings? 😂
I'm afraid not JC. My P45 is waiting.

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Peak District absolute block 19/12/2017 at 14:16 #104245
Phil-jmw
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Has anyone else had this scenario happen to them?

Having previously sent 0M23 light engine towards Marple without incident, I had 6J44 0339 Tunstead - Pendleton approaching New Mills Sth Jn for the Marple direction. Train offered to New Mills Central on the Down (but wrongly labelled Up) block instrument and accepted. However, I was unable to clear NMS52 signal, but a message was received stating 'Line Clear required'. I talked the train past NMS52 signal and sent TES in the normal way. Fortunately, I was able to restore the block instrument to Normal after 6J44 passed New Mills Central, unlike the situation existing between Peak Forest South and Great Rocks. I've attached a save.

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Last edited: 19/12/2017 at 14:18 by Phil-jmw
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Peak District absolute block 19/12/2017 at 14:21 #104246
KymriskaDraken
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Phil-jmw in post 104245 said:
Has anyone else had this scenario happen to them?

Having previously sent 0M23 light engine towards Marple without incident, I had 6J44 0339 Tunstead - Pendleton approaching New Mills Sth Jn for the Marple direction. Train offered to New Mills Central on the Down (but wrongly labelled Up) block instrument and accepted. However, I was unable to clear NMS52 signal, but a message was received stating 'Line Clear required'. I talked the train past NMS52 signal and sent TES in the normal way. Fortunately, I was able to restore the block instrument to Normal after 6J44 passed New Mills Central, unlike the situation existing between Peak Forest South and Great Rocks. I've attached a save.
This has already been reported. Mantis 18856.

Workround is to place block to TOL, then N and offer the train again.


Kev

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Peak District absolute block 19/12/2017 at 14:46 #104247
Phil-jmw
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KymriskaDraken in post 104246 said:
Phil-jmw in post 104245 said:
Has anyone else had this scenario happen to them?

Having previously sent 0M23 light engine towards Marple without incident, I had 6J44 0339 Tunstead - Pendleton approaching New Mills Sth Jn for the Marple direction. Train offered to New Mills Central on the Down (but wrongly labelled Up) block instrument and accepted. However, I was unable to clear NMS52 signal, but a message was received stating 'Line Clear required'. I talked the train past NMS52 signal and sent TES in the normal way. Fortunately, I was able to restore the block instrument to Normal after 6J44 passed New Mills Central, unlike the situation existing between Peak Forest South and Great Rocks. I've attached a save.
This has already been reported. Mantis 18856.

Workround is to place block to TOL, then N and offer the train again.


Kev
Thanks Kev. I'd not seen it reported before. I offered 7J18 on just now, expecting to have to use the workaround and NMS52 signal cleared without incident.

Cheerz, Phil.

Last edited: 19/12/2017 at 14:52 by Phil-jmw
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Peak District absolute block 20/12/2017 at 15:59 #104269
Noisynoel
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this one is baffling me a bit. I've tested and tested and test and 9 times out of 10 it works fine, it's just the one odd occasion that it doesn't, however, I can not, as yet pinpoint what's doing it.
If anyone can reproduce this I would appreciate a pause & save with the save being sent to me or posted on here.

Noisynoel
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Peak District absolute block 20/12/2017 at 16:35 #104271
Phil-jmw
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Noisynoel in post 104269 said:
this one is baffling me a bit. I've tested and tested and test and 9 times out of 10 it works fine, it's just the one odd occasion that it doesn't, however, I can not, as yet pinpoint what's doing it.
If anyone can reproduce this I would appreciate a pause & save with the save being sent to me or posted on here.
I've had one or two more trains for Marple since 7J18 Noel, and as you say it appears to be a completely random event. sometimes NMS52 clears with the first Line Clear, sometimes it doesn't and you need to ask for another. And there appears to be no obvious pattern or set of circumstances that cause the block to behave this way.

Phil.

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Peak District absolute block 21/12/2017 at 09:16 #104299
kbarber
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Phil-jmw in post 104271 said:
Noisynoel in post 104269 said:
this one is baffling me a bit. I've tested and tested and test and 9 times out of 10 it works fine, it's just the one odd occasion that it doesn't, however, I can not, as yet pinpoint what's doing it.
If anyone can reproduce this I would appreciate a pause & save with the save being sent to me or posted on here.
I've had one or two more trains for Marple since 7J18 Noel, and as you say it appears to be a completely random event. sometimes NMS52 clears with the first Line Clear, sometimes it doesn't and you need to ask for another. And there appears to be no obvious pattern or set of circumstances that cause the block to behave this way.

Phil.
Yeah I remember working with block instruments like that. Pain in a tender part of the anatomy when you wanted a minimum of disturbance on nights...

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Peak District absolute block 21/12/2017 at 13:58 #104308
KymriskaDraken
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Noisynoel in post 104269 said:
this one is baffling me a bit. I've tested and tested and test and 9 times out of 10 it works fine, it's just the one odd occasion that it doesn't, however, I can not, as yet pinpoint what's doing it.
If anyone can reproduce this I would appreciate a pause & save with the save being sent to me or posted on here.
I think I have got a handle on this now. You can send as many trains as you like towards Marple Wharf Jn and the block will work correctly. If you then send a train towards Hazel Grove, and then one towards Marple Wharf the bug will appear. It will then work correctly until a train is sent towards Hazel Grove.


Kev

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Peak District absolute block 21/12/2017 at 15:17 #104310
WesternChampion
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KymriskaDraken in post 104308 said:
Noisynoel in post 104269 said:
this one is baffling me a bit. I've tested and tested and test and 9 times out of 10 it works fine, it's just the one odd occasion that it doesn't, however, I can not, as yet pinpoint what's doing it.
If anyone can reproduce this I would appreciate a pause & save with the save being sent to me or posted on here.
I think I have got a handle on this now. You can send as many trains as you like towards Marple Wharf Jn and the block will work correctly. If you then send a train towards Hazel Grove, and then one towards Marple Wharf the bug will appear. It will then work correctly until a train is sent towards Hazel Grove.


Kev
Nice bit of detective work. Did you mean New Mills rather than Hazel Grove?

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Peak District absolute block 21/12/2017 at 15:21 #104311
KymriskaDraken
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WesternChampion in post 104310 said:
KymriskaDraken in post 104308 said:
Noisynoel in post 104269 said:
this one is baffling me a bit. I've tested and tested and test and 9 times out of 10 it works fine, it's just the one odd occasion that it doesn't, however, I can not, as yet pinpoint what's doing it.
If anyone can reproduce this I would appreciate a pause & save with the save being sent to me or posted on here.
I think I have got a handle on this now. You can send as many trains as you like towards Marple Wharf Jn and the block will work correctly. If you then send a train towards Hazel Grove, and then one towards Marple Wharf the bug will appear. It will then work correctly until a train is sent towards Hazel Grove.


Kev
Nice bit of detective work. Did you mean New Mills rather than Hazel Grove?
Nope. New Mills is in the same direction as Marple Wharf Jn.


Kev

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Peak District absolute block 21/12/2017 at 16:17 #104314
WesternChampion
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KymriskaDraken in post 104311 said:
WesternChampion in post 104310 said:
KymriskaDraken in post 104308 said:
Noisynoel in post 104269 said:
this one is baffling me a bit. I've tested and tested and test and 9 times out of 10 it works fine, it's just the one odd occasion that it doesn't, however, I can not, as yet pinpoint what's doing it.
If anyone can reproduce this I would appreciate a pause & save with the save being sent to me or posted on here.
I think I have got a handle on this now. You can send as many trains as you like towards Marple Wharf Jn and the block will work correctly. If you then send a train towards Hazel Grove, and then one towards Marple Wharf the bug will appear. It will then work correctly until a train is sent towards Hazel Grove.


Kev
Nice bit of detective work. Did you mean New Mills rather than Hazel Grove?
Nope. New Mills is in the same direction as Marple Wharf Jn.


Kev
Sorry. I was thinking of a different block section.

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Peak District absolute block 21/12/2017 at 18:11 #104316
jc92
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KymriskaDraken in post 104308 said:
Noisynoel in post 104269 said:
this one is baffling me a bit. I've tested and tested and test and 9 times out of 10 it works fine, it's just the one odd occasion that it doesn't, however, I can not, as yet pinpoint what's doing it.
If anyone can reproduce this I would appreciate a pause & save with the save being sent to me or posted on here.
I think I have got a handle on this now. You can send as many trains as you like towards Marple Wharf Jn and the block will work correctly. If you then send a train towards Hazel Grove, and then one towards Marple Wharf the bug will appear. It will then work correctly until a train is sent towards Hazel Grove.


Kev
Is it possible its linked in anyway to any controls over one line clear one pull? Maybe setting a route towards hazel grove confuses the sim in some way as the same signal has two routes. I recall a similar issue with slotting on shrewsbury?

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Peak District absolute block 21/12/2017 at 18:49 #104317
Noisynoel
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Don't worry, fixed it :-) Spurious "-" in the code!
Noisynoel
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