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0T82 Peak Forest - Long Sidings - Peak Forest Sorting Sdgs

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0T82 Peak Forest - Long Sidings - Peak Forest Sorting Sdgs 15/01/2018 at 18:01 #105099
Phil-jmw
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171 posts
Running the 1987 TT with Absolute Block enabled, 6T82 arrives at Peak Forest from Earles Sdgs, 0T82 detaches from the front and is timed to run round via the Long Sdgs to get to the Up Sorting Sdgs, but the Wiki states, "Note that there is no route from the Down line to the Long Sidings", so I must presumably wait until 6T82 has been drawn clear of the Down line by PF02 shunt loco and then let 0T82, (which by now has drawn up to the Down Sdgs GF and has asked for a way back) draw up to PF24 signal. This causes me to ask the following questions:-

1. Why is 0T82 timed via the Long Sdgs if there is no access from the Down line?
2. Why is 0T82 not simply timed to reverse after detaching from the front of its train and follow 6T82 towards PF28?


Regards,

Phil.

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0T82 Peak Forest - Long Sidings - Peak Forest Sorting Sdgs 15/01/2018 at 18:25 #105102
Danny252
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I suspect the manual is error (or at least ambiguous), as such a move is recorded in this video. At 45:30, 37509 draws a train from Peakstone/Cemex onto the Down line, and 60015 Bow Fell is seen shunting onto the rear (up) end. A little later, at 48:45, a matching 37 (though I can't definitely confirm the number due to the video quality!) runs back via the Long Sidings to Peakstone/Cemex.

The following paragraph in the manual does imply such a thing is possible, stating that an engine that has shunted from sidings to the down line may "request a route back [...] via the Long Sidings".

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0T82 Peak Forest - Long Sidings - Peak Forest Sorting Sdgs 15/01/2018 at 18:34 #105104
Phil-jmw
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But that's an engine shunting from the sidings Danny. This is an engine that has detached from its train on the Down line and is looking for a way back. I can't even give him a handsignal to proceed to PF24 signal.
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0T82 Peak Forest - Long Sidings - Peak Forest Sorting Sdgs 15/01/2018 at 18:51 #105106
58050
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What you need to realise when playing the 1987 timetable is that it is set during the BR era some 7 years before privatisation & I suspect that the manual is predominantly written to cater for the modern era or todays railway as developers would struggle to gain access to the working conditions back in the 1980s unless like me you were issued them whilst working on the railway. The engine would reverse behind the GF & return via the Long Sdg. In most places around the country the number of shunt moves permited were far higher back then than today. Whilst playing on the multi-player session hosted by KimriskaDraken(Kev) last week I noticed some tt errors regarding 7A22 & 7A12 in respect of the pilot loco that brings the trains out of Dove Holes Quarry. They have now been corrected & will be released in the next version.
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0T82 Peak Forest - Long Sidings - Peak Forest Sorting Sdgs 15/01/2018 at 18:52 #105107
Danny252
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I do now see the problem Phil - the GF cannot be released with a train in section, regardless of the state of the block, and whether or not the loco has phoned in from the GF.

It looks like the trick (or workaround?) is to release the GF before clearing PF21. It's not the way round I would expect it to work (i.e. I'd expect GF release only after the train had arrived), and I'm surprised the section signal can be released simultaneously with the GF release, so hopefully Noel or someone can comment. One can even get into the fun situation of pulling and reversing the point lever, watching PF21 alternate between green and red...

Last edited: 15/01/2018 at 18:55 by Danny252
Reason: None given

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0T82 Peak Forest - Long Sidings - Peak Forest Sorting Sdgs 15/01/2018 at 19:04 #105109
KymriskaDraken
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589 posts
Mantis 19303 for not being able to release the Down Siding GF.


Kev

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0T82 Peak Forest - Long Sidings - Peak Forest Sorting Sdgs 15/01/2018 at 19:06 #105110
Phil-jmw
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171 posts
Danny252 in post 105107 said:
I do now see the problem Phil - the GF cannot be released with a train in section, regardless of the state of the block, and whether or not the loco has phoned in from the GF.

It looks like the trick (or workaround?) is to release the GF before clearing PF21. It's not the way round I would expect it to work (i.e. I'd expect GF release only after the train had arrived), and I'm surprised the section signal can be released simultaneously with the GF release, so hopefully Noel or someone can comment. One can even get into the fun situation of pulling and reversing the point lever, watching PF21 alternate between green and red...
I didn't try that because I'd already got 0T82 in section between Peak Forest and Great Rocks. I've just tried it now with the section clear and got the frame released. The sequence was as follows:-
1. Obtain 'Line Clear'.
2. Release Down Sdgs GF.
3. Clear PF21 signal.

I do think it very strange that you can clear the section signal with the GF released, and even more strange that you can then reverse the GF with the section signal 'Off', but when you reverse the points it puts PF21 signal back to Danger.


Regards,

Phil.

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0T82 Peak Forest - Long Sidings - Peak Forest Sorting Sdgs 16/01/2018 at 09:11 #105126
kbarber
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1264 posts
Phil-jmw in post 105110 said:
Danny252 in post 105107 said:
I do now see the problem Phil - the GF cannot be released with a train in section, regardless of the state of the block, and whether or not the loco has phoned in from the GF.

It looks like the trick (or workaround?) is to release the GF before clearing PF21. It's not the way round I would expect it to work (i.e. I'd expect GF release only after the train had arrived), and I'm surprised the section signal can be released simultaneously with the GF release, so hopefully Noel or someone can comment. One can even get into the fun situation of pulling and reversing the point lever, watching PF21 alternate between green and red...
I didn't try that because I'd already got 0T82 in section between Peak Forest and Great Rocks. I've just tried it now with the section clear and got the frame released. The sequence was as follows:-
1. Obtain 'Line Clear'.
2. Release Down Sdgs GF.
3. Clear PF21 signal.

I do think it very strange that you can clear the section signal with the GF released, and even more strange that you can then reverse the GF with the section signal 'Off', but when you reverse the points it puts PF21 signal back to Danger.


Regards,

Phil.
That sounds like a wrong side... a free pull in the locking that shouldn't be there.

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