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Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite

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Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 20/02/2018 at 00:44 #106030
whatlep
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This thread is for any comments on, or corrections to, the April 1989 suite of timetables, released in full on Feb 18th, 2018.

There were two objectives in creating timetables from April 1989:
1) to enable more use of the MPSCC simulation: solo or with fewer users than the standard supplied timetables
2) to provide a simulation of Manchester's railway scene before the events of 1989-1992 changed it utterly

Four timetables are provided:
The Northern Part - 1 user - includes just the lines to & from Manchester Victoria, plus the few trains which used the Windsor Link and Ordall Lane - Castlefield Jn sections of line. V1.1 contains an unusually large number of changes from V1.0 due to finding a source for WTT updates which reflected MPSCC's opening in October 1988 and the associated closure of the Fallowfield loop freight route. The changes are given in detail in an attached file.

The Oxford Road Part - 1/2 user(s) - includes all trains passing through Oxford Road. The main focus is on the intensive service to/from Altrincham which until May 1989 included fast services on the Chester route. Trains will run "block and block" in the rush hour with fast trains catching the locals as they approach Manchester. One user can handle this simulation, but rush-hour traffic is extremely tricky with 13 trains per hour in each direction through Oxford Road and multiple junctions at which to correctly schedule incoming trains. A second user covering the Longsight/ Piccadilly area is handy then. Updated to V1.1 on 18/02/2018 with 3 additional trains.

The Southern Part - 1 to 3 users - everything not covered by the Northern Part! All trains to/from Piccadilly and Oxford Road. Not quite as horrendous as it may seem, as the main part of Piccadilly station was much less intensively used than the through platforms. One user can just about cope, but splitting the load between 2 or even 3 users will make the simulation more relaxing. V1.0 issued on 18/02/2018

The Whole Picture - 2 to 4 users. Does exactly what you'd expect. V1.0 issued on 18/02/2018

There are various known issues which are detailed in each timetable. Two affect locos detached at Manchester Piccadilly's platform 5 and attaching to trains in platform 9. The relevant timetables suggest work-rounds for these two issues. Platform 9's rush-hour use also has issues due to the mismatch between SimSig's 1990 trackplan and what was actually in place between October 1988 and Christmas 1998. The correct trackplan is shown in an attached extract from the original, October 8th 1988, MPSCC resignalling notice.

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Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 22/02/2018 at 18:47 #106078
zachpratt
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Thanks for this time table! I'm a huge fan of the 80s era. It is a tough one!
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Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 23/02/2018 at 14:29 #106096
slatteryc
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Agree - Picc is one of the hardest single player jobs I've ever tried , only wimbledon no ARS and VIC SE no ARS come close
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Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 24/02/2018 at 21:21 #106134
Phil-jmw
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Running 'The Whole Picture', MP345 Sig will not clear for 0K03 to drop on top of 3H05, had to talk him past.


Regards,

Phil.

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Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 24/02/2018 at 22:01 #106135
Phil-jmw
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TRS received for 0M13 in Pfm.10. Route set towards the Engine Sdg, loco doesn't move down towards MP376 Sig for that signal to clear. I check F2 and 0M13 shows 'Held by conditions'.

Regards,

Phil.

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Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 24/02/2018 at 22:51 #106138
Phil-jmw
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Phil-jmw in post 106134 said:
Running 'The Whole Picture', MP345 Sig will not clear for 0K03 to drop on top of 3H05, had to talk him past.


Regards,

Phil.
Solution. Restarted sim and ran 0K03 via the Engine Sdg, MP1155 GPL clears into Pfm.10.

Regards,

Phil.

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Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 24/02/2018 at 23:27 #106142
Steamer
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Phil-jmw in post 106135 said:
TRS received for 0M13 in Pfm.10. Route set towards the Engine Sdg, loco doesn't move down towards MP376 Sig for that signal to clear. I check F2 and 0M13 shows 'Held by conditions'.

Regards,

Phil.
Set the route from 376 towards the (white) shunt arrow at 374; don't set towards 374 itself.

Let the challenge... Begin!
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Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 25/02/2018 at 00:48 #106145
Table 52
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I've played "the whole picture" through to noon so far. Off-peak, it's a surprisingly manageable timetable. But, during the peak, it's an absolute nightmare, even on half speed! Really enjoyable to play, thanks for putting it together.

It's interesting to see how much more utilised Victoria and Oxford Road stations are in this TT compared to the present day.

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Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 27/02/2018 at 00:10 #106218
Phil-jmw
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5O66 occupies all of Pfm.9, requiring 0O66 to be talked onto the ECS. As there have been no other comments regarding this I'm wondering if I've missed something which should be obvious.

Apart from the issues I've raised here (which seem to be mainly of my own making) this is a fab TT, but very challenging in the morning peak (where I'm up to so far with the whole picture TT). I may have to go to half speed to unravel it a bit until round 0900.

Regards,

Phil.

Last edited: 27/02/2018 at 00:13 by Phil-jmw
Reason: None given

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Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 27/02/2018 at 19:32 #106233
Phil-jmw
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6J75 0912 Appley Bridge - Dean Lane wrongly routed along the Up Bplton instead of Brindle Heath Loop did not stop and query the route, kept going towards Salford Crescent.

One thing I've noticed with sometimes two or more trains in the sim at the same time with the same reporting number, is that very often when you click on a reporting number you get the train details of a different train (2H86 is a frequent offender), requiring a look into the F2 window to look at the correct train), which takes up valuable time when having to make quick regulating decisions and looking up platformings and next workings.

Last edited: 27/02/2018 at 19:47 by Phil-jmw
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Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 28/02/2018 at 00:12 #106236
BarryM
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A new version of the sim was updated today. See if the problems arise again?

Barry

Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 28/02/2018 at 00:27 #106237
postal
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Phil-jmw in post 106233 said:
One thing I've noticed with sometimes two or more trains in the sim at the same time with the same reporting number, is that very often when you click on a reporting number you get the train details of a different train (2H86 is a frequent offender), requiring a look into the F2 window to look at the correct train), which takes up valuable time when having to make quick regulating decisions and looking up platformings and next workings.
Known problem when two trains with the same reporting number but different UID are in sim at the same time. Hopefully a solution to the problem will arrive in due course.

"It is a most mortifying reflection for a man to consider what he has done, compared to what he might have done." - Samuel Johnson, English author, 18/09/1709 - 13/12/1784
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Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 28/02/2018 at 02:55 #106238
whatlep
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Thanks for all the comments so far. As the timetable(s)' creator I'm pleased that they are of interest.

Various of the issues raised are covered by the MPSCC manual (e.g. light engine moves into the engine siding) which I strongly encourage users to read if they haven't already done so. All the others I've seen mentioned so far are part of SimSig's design. For example duplicate headcodes. As I mention in the text with each timetable, using "sticky labels" is helpful. When testing (which I do solo) I found that particularly helpful for trains off the CLC Liverpool route.

One item raised so far is the need to manually clear trains past the last signal(s) into Piccadilly if the panel thinks a platform is full (Lime Street control). Be aware that this can occur even for timetabled moves (e.g. 5O66 referenced in one post). There is, I'm afraid, no substitute for experience of the timetable....

If it's of interest, I am currently working on a 1991 simulation for Piccadilly. Release is probably 2-3 weeks out. That will have major changes from 1989 as the Windsor Link is fully operational. In terms of "solo games", are they of interest to people, or should a 1991 offering just be one "big picture"?

Good luck with the simulations and please feel free to contact me via SimSig's messaging facility if you seem to have hit an insuperable problem. Please add a saved situation file - trying to resolve problems is virtually impossible without one!

Last edited: 28/02/2018 at 02:57 by whatlep
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Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 01/03/2018 at 00:25 #106256
Phil-jmw
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whatlep in post 106238 said:
Thanks for all the comments so far. As the timetable(s)' creator I'm pleased that they are of interest.

Various of the issues raised are covered by the MPSCC manual (e.g. light engine moves into the engine siding) which I strongly encourage users to read if they haven't already done so. All the others I've seen mentioned so far are part of SimSig's design. For example duplicate headcodes. As I mention in the text with each timetable, using "sticky labels" is helpful. When testing (which I do solo) I found that particularly helpful for trains off the CLC Liverpool route.

One item raised so far is the need to manually clear trains past the last signal(s) into Piccadilly if the panel thinks a platform is full (Lime Street control). Be aware that this can occur even for timetabled moves (e.g. 5O66 referenced in one post). There is, I'm afraid, no substitute for experience of the timetable....

If it's of interest, I am currently working on a 1991 simulation for Piccadilly. Release is probably 2-3 weeks out. That will have major changes from 1989 as the Windsor Link is fully operational. In terms of "solo games", are they of interest to people, or should a 1991 offering just be one "big picture"?

Good luck with the simulations and please feel free to contact me via SimSig's messaging facility if you seem to have hit an insuperable problem. Please add a saved situation file - trying to resolve problems is virtually impossible without one!

Owning virtually every Simsig sim ever produced, I can say that Man Picc is the most daunting sim of them all for the single player (I've never been involved in multiplayer), and the only one I have ever had to slow down to half speed (just through the morning peak, not made it to evening peak yet). That said, I do thoroughly enjoy this sim, even more so with this 1989 TT and all its light loco shunt moves that make this TT (and all the other heritage TT's) much more enjoyable than running 'straight up and down', so to speak. I personally am all for a 'big picture' 1991 TT, regardless of how busy it is, because just running with a part-picture TT would make me feel there was something missing.

Thanks again for this excellent 1989 TT and I look forward to a 1991 TT.


Regards,

Phil

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Manchester Piccadilly April 1989 timetable suite 11/03/2018 at 18:33 #106658
whatlep
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Phil-jmw in post 106256 said:


Thanks again for this excellent 1989 TT and I look forward to a 1991 TT.


Regards,

Phil
Your wish is my demand. Manchester Piccadilly 1991 is now available!

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