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TUT's comments 22/03/2018 at 14:40 #106938
clive
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2737 posts 		Moved here from http://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/PostView/106731 as it's becoming Royston-specific.

TUT in post 106731 said:
clive in post 106729 said:
What do you mean by "confusing aspects of the display"?
To quote the manual:

Quote:
The signal arrangement at the north end means that the overlaps and routes aren't always obvious, and you will need to watch the signal "stems" to see what routes are and aren't set.

Yes, that's a bit unfortunate. However, it matches the real world.

TUT in post 106731 said:

There's also the three choices of screen layout (two stripes, King's Cross or Cambridge) and the choice of stacked signals, which are a bit novel.
Though those are purely visual and shouldn't affect playability. The King's Cross layout was for those wanting to extend KX (it's the way it's actually shown on the panel), "two stripes" fits conveniently on a screen and is what old-timers are used to, while Cambridge is a scrolly version of that.

TUT in post 106731 said:

This wasn't intended as a criticism of Royston, merely a personal opinion on whether it was the ideal first sim. Lots of people like a quieter sim, and lots of people like to add delays and disruption which of course will make things harder and more interesting. And there's always the option to speed things up. But if I were showing SimSig to a friend, I think I'd start with something a little bit more exciting to really show off what it can do.
Understood.

Though I think you're mixing requirements for beginners, experienced people who want a quiet time, and showing off. What's best for one might not be best for another.

TUT in post 106731 said:

Hehe, for me personally, I couldn't for the life of me get Sherriff's working - it's one of the trickiest things on SimSig for me, but then maybe I'm just weird :P
I'd like to know what your specific problems are. The next release will have some changes to make it a bit clearer.
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TUT's comments 22/03/2018 at 20:31 #106952
TUT
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507 posts 		Gosh I truly hadn't meant to make any criticism of Royston, I meant only to justify going against the conventional wisdom in the context of that thread.

But it's wonderful, I think, to be reminded how seriously developers take their craft and I'm really grateful to see the effort that you go to and the care you put in for one of the smallest sims - and a free sim!

Thank you!

clive in post 106938 said:
Moved here from http://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/PostView/106731 as it's becoming Royston-specific.

TUT in post 106731 said:
clive in post 106729 said:
What do you mean by "confusing aspects of the display"?
To quote the manual:

Quote:
The signal arrangement at the north end means that the overlaps and routes aren't always obvious, and you will need to watch the signal "stems" to see what routes are and aren't set.

Yes, that's a bit unfortunate. However, it matches the real world.

Indeed yes, and I wouldn't have it any other way. It should match the real world. I would just want my first Sim to be as prototypical as possible and I just think that's a mark against Royston-as-first-sim, not a mark against Royston.

My first sim was actually Victoria LUL, because the Underground was my first love railway-wise and it got me hooked on SimSig, but it was probably the wrong place to start, being very unusual.

clive in post 106938 said:
TUT in post 106731 said:

There's also the three choices of screen layout (two stripes, King's Cross or Cambridge) and the choice of stacked signals, which are a bit novel.
Though those are purely visual and shouldn't affect playability. The King's Cross layout was for those wanting to extend KX (it's the way it's actually shown on the panel), "two stripes" fits conveniently on a screen and is what old-timers are used to, while Cambridge is a scrolly version of that.
I played with King's Cross I love this feature. I think it's great. And it shouldn't confuse a new user, they can just pick one - one they've been advised to use and it's no big deal. The sim should have these options But again, when justifying to that person why I maybe wouldn't start with Royston even though it's the canonical first sim, I thought somebody who was still trying to figure out how to open up the loader might find the possibility of their sim looking different on different play throughs or different to pictures in the manual or whatever a negative. I know when I was refreshing my memory about Royston, the pictures I pulled up were different to the King's Cross layout that I played with, and I just thought that was a mark against Royston-as-first-sim, not against Royston. I think it's a good feature. It'd be nice if some other sims had options to choose layouts that were the most faithful to the real world drawing, and then maybe another layout that was more conventional SimSig.

clive in post 106938 said:
TUT in post 106731 said:

This wasn't intended as a criticism of Royston, merely a personal opinion on whether it was the ideal first sim. Lots of people like a quieter sim, and lots of people like to add delays and disruption which of course will make things harder and more interesting. And there's always the option to speed things up. But if I were showing SimSig to a friend, I think I'd start with something a little bit more exciting to really show off what it can do.
Understood.

Though I think you're mixing requirements for beginners, experienced people who want a quiet time, and showing off. What's best for one might not be best for another.

TUT in post 106731 said:

Hehe, for me personally, I couldn't for the life of me get Sherriff's working - it's one of the trickiest things on SimSig for me, but then maybe I'm just weird :P
I'd like to know what your specific problems are. The next release will have some changes to make it a bit clearer.
Do you know I can't remember exactly, and if I'd had a problem with it, I could have asked on the forum. Again, nothing against Royston I just remember 6T41 in the default timetable would not enter from Grain siding. I mean, it really wouldn't. I tried everything, I tried - after it didn't enter on one play through, I went back to the beginning with the shunter knows timetable option ticked and I couldn't make it happen. I decided not to worry instead of doing what I could have done and opened a forum post about it. I just thought, again, one of Royston's real selling points for beginners is it's easy to work, but then the sidings down there are kind of tricky so, maybe that's also an argument against having it as a first sim.

But really none of these were meant as attacks against Royston, I hope many people - including first time SimSignallers - continue to enjoy, I personally love the fact that it completes King's Cross. I would not want to be without it in my collection and I'm really grateful it's been converted to loader even though again it's small and free. I just have I think fair reasons for advocating different first sims.

I like Swindon A & B IECC as a fist sim. Which some would think is insane. Certainly the Power station complex, with run round locos and phone calls and trains being accepted on lines other than the ones they're booked on is not first-time-player-friendly. But if you read the manual on phone calls and divides and joins carefully, yes the very first hurdle is very high. But after that, you can take just one sub area if you so wish, or you can give yourself the equivalent of a workstation. Workstation 1 is really manageable but also fun. As you gain confidence workstation 3 is very very enjoyable and it's the Sim I can't get bored of and the first Network Rail sim I ever played
Last edited: 22/03/2018 at 20:33 by TUT
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