K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967

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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 19/06/2018 at 22:23 #109772
bugsy
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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967
I’m currently playing the Kings Cross 1985 timetable and have encountered a problem for the second time. In the first instance I just abandoned that train’s timetable, manoeuvred it manually and reinstated its’ timetable once I had the train on the correct path.
On this occasion I want to see if there is the possibility of editing the timetable instead. The timetable doesn’t look right to me anyway and I couldn’t see many options for alternative routes in the editor.
If you look at the attached timetable for 5B967 you will see that it is supposed to reverse at K222 DCBG, proceed to Hitchin, presumably P2, where it’s TD changes to 2B80, waits 41 minutes and then proceeds to Biggleswade. Also attached is the areas signal plan
Firstly, as far as I can see, K222 is within CMEE, so I assume that it reverses at 217. The only way that I can see to get 5B967 into P2 from 217 is via 699 and 232 (North Reverse).
Now, I could of course be completely wrong, in which case could somebody put me right by explaining what should be done. I know that I could fiddle things again, but thought there must be a better way.

Bugsy


Found the solution. It had to go towards Letchworth to signal 228 and then from there to to Hitchin P2

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Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
Last edited: 19/06/2018 at 22:40 by bugsy
Reason: None given

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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 19/06/2018 at 23:01 #109773
58050
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Are running my King's Cross 1985 timetable or the one Kurt did upteen years ago?
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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 19/06/2018 at 23:54 #109778
bugsy
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58050 in post 109773 said:
Are running my King's Cross 1985 timetable or the one Kurt did upteen years ago?
I don't think that it was your one, as yours is 1985 - 1986.
This one was 1985 0000 Start.WTT and there's another with an 0600 start.
Not sure who produced them.

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 20/06/2018 at 09:51 #109787
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OK can't really help you if it's not my timetable. Although my timetable is listed as 1985-1986 the station working book I used for that timetable was from May 1985 - Sept. 1985 & is accurate unlike the King's Cross 1985 timetable you are running.
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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 20/06/2018 at 12:08 #109789
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58050 in post 109787 said:
OK can't really help you if it's not my timetable. Although my timetable is listed as 1985-1986 the station working book I used for that timetable was from May 1985 - Sept. 1985 & is accurate unlike the King's Cross 1985 timetable you are running.
Thanks anyway. You'll notice that I did work out the solution as shown in my edited post above.
No doubt I'll get around to using your timetable quite soon as Kings Cross is my favourite sim at the moment. I'm actuall running three Kings Cross sims and have to transfer 'saved games' and 'snapshots' into separate sim folders to keep from getting them mixed up.

Glad that I'm retired and only working part-time. Don't know how I would fit the sims in if I was still working full time. Not much sleep I suppose.

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 20/06/2018 at 17:31 #109794
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Glad to hear you resolved it. That 1985 KX timetable was very good when it came our, however once Id checked the actual 1985 station working book there were a number of discrepancies & train formations which led me to believe he hadn't got that publication when he wrote the timetable. My KX 1985 timetable is based on the actual BR documentation for the period. At some point in the not too distant future I've got to update that timetable as I now have the loco diagrams for the period & so can allocate the right type of loco to the trains in the timetable which should make the experience even better.
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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 20/06/2018 at 20:47 #109799
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58050 in post 109794 said:
Glad to hear you resolved it. That 1985 KX timetable was very good when it came our, however once Id checked the actual 1985 station working book there were a number of discrepancies & train formations which led me to believe he hadn't got that publication when he wrote the timetable. My KX 1985 timetable is based on the actual BR documentation for the period. At some point in the not too distant future I've got to update that timetable as I now have the loco diagrams for the period & so can allocate the right type of loco to the trains in the timetable which should make the experience even better.
Look forward to your update. In the meantime, I'll just carry on with the timetables that I already have.

I'm sure that if I have any more problems I'll find a work-around.

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 16/10/2019 at 08:30 #121077
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I noticed the same issue in the 1985-1986 timetable for 5B96:

Hitchin Plat 1
Hitchen K222 DCGB Reverse
Hitchen Plat 2 to become 2B80.

I don't see how sending it to K222 which is the CMEE gets it to platform 2.

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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 16/10/2019 at 17:01 #121089
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swiftaw in post 121077 said:
I noticed the same issue in the 1985-1986 timetable for 5B96:

Hitchin Plat 1
Hitchen K222 DCGB Reverse
Hitchen Plat 2 to become 2B80.

I don't see how sending it to K222 which is the CMEE gets it to platform 2.
It doesn't. That's why I did it as described in my first post above

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 16/10/2019 at 22:48 #121103
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bugsy in post 121089 said:
swiftaw in post 121077 said:
I noticed the same issue in the 1985-1986 timetable for 5B96:

Hitchin Plat 1
Hitchen K222 DCGB Reverse
Hitchen Plat 2 to become 2B80.

I don't see how sending it to K222 which is the CMEE gets it to platform 2.
It doesn't. That's why I did it as described in my first post above
Yes, my message was more in response to 58050's post where he asked if you were running his/her timetable and you said you weren't, but this does in fact occur in his timetable also with 5B96 (and also 5F01).

I dealt with it by right-clicking on the train in the train list and using Edit Timetable to route it the correct way (although Abandon timetable would also work).

Since this is my first time running this timetable I'm also keeping a list of impacted trains so I can modify the timetable for next time I want to run it.

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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 17/10/2019 at 12:15 #121119
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swiftaw in post 121103 said:

Yes, my message was more in response to 58050's post where he asked if you were running his/her timetable and you said you weren't, but this does in fact occur in his timetable also with 5B96 (and also 5F01).

I dealt with it by right-clicking on the train in the train list and using Edit Timetable to route it the correct way (although Abandon timetable would also work).

Since this is my first time running this timetable I'm also keeping a list of impacted trains so I can modify the timetable for next time I want to run it.
It just so happens that I have started playing 58050's timetable recently, so will keep an eye out for the two trains that you mention. I usually modify a timetable in these situations, but as you say, abandoning the timetable to get the train to where you want it and then reinstating it does just as well.

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 17/10/2019 at 17:18 #121129
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What both of you could do is list things you've come across & let me know what they are so when I come to carrying out the updates to this TT I can look at what you've listed. There shouldn't be any platform clashes at King's Cross station as I used my copy of the official BR King's Cross station working book for 1985.
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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 17/10/2019 at 17:55 #121130
swiftaw
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58050 in post 121129 said:
What both of you could do is list things you've come across & let me know what they are so when I come to carrying out the updates to this TT I can look at what you've listed. There shouldn't be any platform clashes at King's Cross station as I used my copy of the official BR King's Cross station working book for 1985.
Thanks. So far I have only found two, but I have only worked the sim up to about 7am so far:
5B96
5F01

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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 17/10/2019 at 18:13 #121131
MarkC
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swiftaw in post 121130 said:
58050 in post 121129 said:
What both of you could do is list things you've come across & let me know what they are so when I come to carrying out the updates to this TT I can look at what you've listed. There shouldn't be any platform clashes at King's Cross station as I used my copy of the official BR King's Cross station working book for 1985.
Thanks. So far I have only found two, but I have only worked the sim up to about 7am so far:
5B96
5F01
I do not know why it is named as K222 DCBG (Reverse) for the reversing location, but a clue as to where it reverses is in the name K222 DCBG (Reverse), I belive that DCBG is in referance to Down Cambridge and looking in F2 the direction the train is facing is DN so if you set the route to signal 943 he will happily take the route and arrive at the location, reverse and then continue on to Hitchin P2.


Updated info

Upon further investigation there is a mantis report for this #0015005, the location K222 DCBG (Reverse), is incorrectly named and it should be named K228 DCBG (Reverse)

It's not my fault! I was left unsupervised.
Last edited: 17/10/2019 at 18:21 by MarkC
Reason: None given

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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 17/10/2019 at 23:18 #121144
swiftaw
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MarkC in post 121131 said:
swiftaw in post 121130 said:
58050 in post 121129 said:
What both of you could do is list things you've come across & let me know what they are so when I come to carrying out the updates to this TT I can look at what you've listed. There shouldn't be any platform clashes at King's Cross station as I used my copy of the official BR King's Cross station working book for 1985.
Thanks. So far I have only found two, but I have only worked the sim up to about 7am so far:
5B96
5F01
I do not know why it is named as K222 DCBG (Reverse) for the reversing location, but a clue as to where it reverses is in the name K222 DCBG (Reverse), I belive that DCBG is in referance to Down Cambridge and looking in F2 the direction the train is facing is DN so if you set the route to signal 943 he will happily take the route and arrive at the location, reverse and then continue on to Hitchin P2.


Updated info

Upon further investigation there is a mantis report for this #0015005, the location K222 DCBG (Reverse), is incorrectly named and it should be named K228 DCBG (Reverse)
Oh, interesting. It reverses by going down the Cambridge line hadn't thought of that.

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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 23/10/2019 at 05:05 #121276
swiftaw
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Okay, so the K222 DCGB ones are just a typo, they work perfectly fine if you send them to K228.

However, I think i've definitely found one that is an issue: 5B53

It comes out of Hitchin Up Yard at 10:20, with instructions to go through Hitchin Platform 1 to get to Hitchin South (Reverse) and then on to Hitchin Platform 2.

However, as far as I can tell, there is no way to get from Hitchin South (Reverse) to Hitchin Platform 2 directly. It seems you would need to go from Hitchin South (Reverse) back though the station on the Down Fast line and then to Hitchin North (Reverse) and then back into Platform 2.

I tried that, but when it passed though the station on the Down Fast, it though it had reached platform 2 and changed to 2B53.

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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 23/10/2019 at 06:21 #121277
Hawk777
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swiftaw in post 121276 said:
5B53

It comes out of Hitchin Up Yard at 10:20, with instructions to go through Hitchin Platform 1 to get to Hitchin South (Reverse) and then on to Hitchin Platform 2.
Weird, in my copy of the 1985 timetable, 5B53 doesn’t enter from anywhere, it’s formed as a new working from 5B431, which in turn is made from 2B431, which comes from Biggleswade. Are you sure you got the right train ID?

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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 23/10/2019 at 19:24 #121283
swiftaw
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Hawk777 in post 121277 said:
swiftaw in post 121276 said:
5B53

It comes out of Hitchin Up Yard at 10:20, with instructions to go through Hitchin Platform 1 to get to Hitchin South (Reverse) and then on to Hitchin Platform 2.
Weird, in my copy of the 1985 timetable, 5B53 doesn’t enter from anywhere, it’s formed as a new working from 5B431, which in turn is made from 2B431, which comes from Biggleswade. Are you sure you got the right train ID?
Yes, I attached a screenshot.

Note that this is for 58050's 1985-1986 timetable.
[attachment=10599]Screen Shot 2019-10-23 at 1.23.05 PM.png[/attachment]

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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 24/10/2019 at 06:50 #121286
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Oh, we may be looking at different TTs. I think a 1985 TT probably shipped with the sim or I downloaded it from somewhere, but probably not the same one.
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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 24/10/2019 at 15:00 #121295
58050
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Now I've been looking at this in my 1985 TT & 5B53 is formned off 2b43 gtom Huntingdon. The reason it does into the yard for 19mins is due to the fact that they don't want to block the Up Slow or have a train sitting in P2 for over 15mins prior to its next working departure time. The WTT doesn't alway have shunt moves printed in them, certainly covering small distances like P1 to Hitchin Yard & so from my railway experience of the period & speaking to signalman who worked the area prior to KX PSB that was the movement that was generally done. Bear in mind as it was a Cl. as opposed to Cl.1 or Cl.2 where it would be conveying passengers it was allowed to signal this train over Goods Lines. Passenger trains conveying passenger had to have speacial authority to traverse Goods Lines.
On a side note to this timetable, at some point I intend to work on an upgrade for it with the addition of actual loco diagrams for the period against the trains they worked & this would also entail additional movements that the loco diagram would show like Local Trip Engine (LTS which WTTs don't contain, or other Departmental workings.

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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 24/10/2019 at 18:37 #121299
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58050 in post 121295 said:
Now I've been looking at this in my 1985 TT & 5B53 is formned off 2b43 gtom Huntingdon. The reason it does into the yard for 19mins is due to the fact that they don't want to block the Up Slow or have a train sitting in P2 for over 15mins prior to its next working departure time. The WTT doesn't alway have shunt moves printed in them, certainly covering small distances like P1 to Hitchin Yard & so from my railway experience of the period & speaking to signalman who worked the area prior to KX PSB that was the movement that was generally done. Bear in mind as it was a Cl. as opposed to Cl.1 or Cl.2 where it would be conveying passengers it was allowed to signal this train over Goods Lines. Passenger trains conveying passenger had to have speacial authority to traverse Goods Lines.
On a side note to this timetable, at some point I intend to work on an upgrade for it with the addition of actual loco diagrams for the period against the trains they worked & this would also entail additional movements that the loco diagram would show like Local Trip Engine (LTS which WTTs don't contain, or other Departmental workings.
Yes, it starts as 2B43 arriving at Hitchin Platform 1 at 09:51. It then becomes 5B53 and heads to Hitchin Up Yard at 09:59 (arriving at 10:01). That part is perfectly fine.

The issue occurs when 5B53 reappears (5B53A) from Hitchin Up Yard at 10:22. It is supposed to make its way to Platform 2 to form 2B53 which departs at 10:30. However, the way the timetable is written there is no way for it to get to Platform 2.

Last edited: 24/10/2019 at 18:41 by swiftaw
Reason: None given

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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 24/10/2019 at 19:42 #121302
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swiftaw in post 121299 said:
The issue occurs when 5B53 reappears (5B53A) from Hitchin Up Yard at 10:22. It is supposed to make its way to Platform 2 to form 2B53 which departs at 10:30. However, the way the timetable is written there is no way for it to get to Platform 2.
All discussed at some length many moons ago here. Looks like the TT has never been updated after that discussion.

"No question is too stupid, there are just some stupid answers" - Dr. Michael Reece, 12/08/1927 - 03/06/2019. Electrical engineer and inventor
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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 24/10/2019 at 20:52 #121304
58050
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postal in post 121302 said:
swiftaw in post 121299 said:
The issue occurs when 5B53 reappears (5B53A) from Hitchin Up Yard at 10:22. It is supposed to make its way to Platform 2 to form 2B53 which departs at 10:30. However, the way the timetable is written there is no way for it to get to Platform 2.
All discussed at some length many moons ago here. Looks like the TT has never been updated after that discussion.

When I get a bit noew of an empty plate I'll then start amending the 86-86 timetable. The down side is that this all takes time to do.

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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 24/10/2019 at 21:56 #121305
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58050 in post 121304 said:
postal in post 121302 said:
swiftaw in post 121299 said:
The issue occurs when 5B53 reappears (5B53A) from Hitchin Up Yard at 10:22. It is supposed to make its way to Platform 2 to form 2B53 which departs at 10:30. However, the way the timetable is written there is no way for it to get to Platform 2.
All discussed at some length many moons ago here. Looks like the TT has never been updated after that discussion.

When I get a bit noew of an empty plate I'll then start amending the 86-86 timetable. The down side is that this all takes time to do.
Sorry, Pascal. Wasn't having a go, just letting the poster know that the issue was in hand.

"No question is too stupid, there are just some stupid answers" - Dr. Michael Reece, 12/08/1927 - 03/06/2019. Electrical engineer and inventor
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K222 DCBG (Reverse) and train 5B967 24/10/2019 at 23:05 #121309
58050
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I wasn't suggesting John you were having a go. You know all too well what it's like.When I've diminished the pile of timetables I'm writing for developers new sims I'll then get round to updating some of the other timetables I've written in the past such as Carlisle 79-80m King's Cross 85-86, York North/South 1991 & Saltley 1995 to few but a few. As it's only me doing the hard work it's going to take time. I hope most users can put up with the wait.
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