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Some observations and questions around London Bridge

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 20/06/2018 at 17:20 #109793
bri2808
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First of all, again thank you to all for what I can only describe as a really superb and absorbing Sim. However, I have some questions and observations:

1) For such an indepth sim is there a signalling map available?

2) Sometimes if trains are running close together in a down direction through New Cross B Platform the description gets lost from the headcode, I guess this may be a fault perhaps?

3) Often, when a signal fails it states what area but I often struggle to locate which area it is as all it says is LE or similar. Is there anyway to locate these areas quickly?

4) This perhaps is a timetable observation but when trains arrive late at Charing Cross and Cannon Street, they tend to have a dwell time before they are ready to depart as per what I would assume is real life. However, at London Bridge that does not seem to be the case and as soon as a late train arrives if it should have left then it wants to leave pretty much straight away. Is this normal?

5) Also, several times in the timetable provided the trains from Charing Cross to Hayes that bypass Lewisham arrive at Parks Bridge Jct and attempt to set ARS towards Hither Green as opposed to Catord Bridge.


Appreciate some of these things may be down to operator error but having run the timetable nearly the full 24 hours (and loved it - except the headcode duplications) they are only a few minor things but if someone would point me in the direction of some of my questions it would be great


Again though, thanks to all concerned for a fantastic sim


Brian

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 20/06/2018 at 22:10 #109802
Steamer
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Quote:
1) For such an indepth sim is there a signalling map available?
I'm writing one, might be a few days before I get chance to finish it.

Quote:
2) Sometimes if trains are running close together in a down direction through New Cross B Platform the description gets lost from the headcode, I guess this may be a fault perhaps?
Which signal is the TD getting lost at?

Quote:
3) Often, when a signal fails it states what area but I often struggle to locate which area it is as all it says is LE or similar. Is there anyway to locate these areas quickly?
They're detailed in the manual: https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=simulations:londonbridge

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Last edited: 20/06/2018 at 22:35 by Steamer
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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 20/06/2018 at 23:46 #109806
Jan
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bri2808 in post 109793 said:
4) This perhaps is a timetable observation but when trains arrive late at Charing Cross and Cannon Street, they tend to have a dwell time before they are ready to depart as per what I would assume is real life. However, at London Bridge that does not seem to be the case and as soon as a late train arrives if it should have left then it wants to leave pretty much straight away. Is this normal?

Did you run the originally released version of the timetable? The initial release had dwell times missing for a number of train types. While both South Eastern and Southern train types were affected, it might just be possible that the latter's train types were some of the more frequently used ones, thereby making the problem more noticeable for Southern terminators at London Bridge.

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Last edited: 20/06/2018 at 23:47 by Jan
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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 21/06/2018 at 07:36 #109808
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Jan in post 109806 said:
bri2808 in post 109793 said:
4) This perhaps is a timetable observation but when trains arrive late at Charing Cross and Cannon Street, they tend to have a dwell time before they are ready to depart as per what I would assume is real life. However, at London Bridge that does not seem to be the case and as soon as a late train arrives if it should have left then it wants to leave pretty much straight away. Is this normal?

Did you run the originally released version of the timetable? The initial release had dwell times missing for a number of train types. While both South Eastern and Southern train types were affected, it might just be possible that the latter's train types were some of the more frequently used ones, thereby making the problem more noticeable for Southern terminators at London Bridge.
Thanks, yes I did so possibly on the next attempt it will be more challenging (If that's possible)

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 21/06/2018 at 07:54 #109809
Meld
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bri2808 in post 109793 said:

5) Also, several times in the timetable provided the trains from Charing Cross to Hayes that bypass Lewisham arrive at Parks Bridge Jct and attempt to set ARS towards Hither Green as opposed to Catord Bridge.

Brian
Brian, Make sure you have the latest TT v1.2.02 please it should have automatically updated, If you could make a note as to which are attempting to set a wrong ARS route with TD & UID in this thread - I'll take a look and see if theres anything amiss

Cheers

John

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Last edited: 21/06/2018 at 07:54 by Meld
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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 21/06/2018 at 10:22 #109812
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Will do John, thank you... May take me another month to complete 24 hours... But I have learnt a lot in the first run through so the next one should be smoother. I can see now why Network Rail took out the crossover at Spa Junction.. (Or as I used to call it, next to the biscuit factory where you could smell the custard creams) because that just becomes chaotic
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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 24/06/2018 at 12:40 #109891
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bri2808 in post 109812 said:
Will do John, thank you... May take me another month to complete 24 hours... But I have learnt a lot in the first run through so the next one should be smoother. I can see now why Network Rail took out the crossover at Spa Junction.. (Or as I used to call it, next to the biscuit factory where you could smell the custard creams) because that just becomes chaotic
Yes the Spa Road crossovers were very problematic. They were there basically for the Greenwich line services to and from Charing Cross. Of course today, Greenwich does not have any Charing Cross services, however they do have Thameslink services. These have to cross all three Cannon Street lines at North Kent East Jn, which when on time is fine, but when they are running late or the peak services into Cannon Street are running late, it is fun trying to thread these across North Kent East Jn, much like we used to do at Spa Road with the Charing Cross services.

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 24/06/2018 at 13:32 #109893
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Giantray in post 109891 said:
bri2808 in post 109812 said:
Will do John, thank you... May take me another month to complete 24 hours... But I have learnt a lot in the first run through so the next one should be smoother. I can see now why Network Rail took out the crossover at Spa Junction.. (Or as I used to call it, next to the biscuit factory where you could smell the custard creams) because that just becomes chaotic
Yes the Spa Road crossovers were very problematic. They were there basically for the Greenwich line services to and from Charing Cross. Of course today, Greenwich does not have any Charing Cross services, however they do have Thameslink services. These have to cross all three Cannon Street lines at North Kent East Jn, which when on time is fine, but when they are running late or the peak services into Cannon Street are running late, it is fun trying to thread these across North Kent East Jn, much like we used to do at Spa Road with the Charing Cross services.
Thameslink trains on the Greenwich line?? You are of course kidding me... We are lucky if they even run. In fact now they don't even show on the expected trains and if they show up its a bonus... Complete farce.

But yes, there was talk of NO Charing Cross trains on the whole Woolwich line but luckily at this stage that appears to have subsided.

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 30/06/2018 at 22:14 #109995
bri2808
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Meld in post 109809 said:
bri2808 in post 109793 said:

5) Also, several times in the timetable provided the trains from Charing Cross to Hayes that bypass Lewisham arrive at Parks Bridge Jct and attempt to set ARS towards Hither Green as opposed to Catord Bridge.

Brian
Brian, Make sure you have the latest TT v1.2.02 please it should have automatically updated, If you could make a note as to which are attempting to set a wrong ARS route with TD & UID in this thread - I'll take a look and see if theres anything amiss

Cheers

John
John

Running up to date TT now and the first train to go wrong at parks bridge jct is 5Y12, Charing Cross to Tonbridge via New Beckenham

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 01/07/2018 at 09:17 #109996
Meld
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bri2808 in post 109995 said:


Running up to date TT now and the first train to go wrong at parks bridge jct is 5Y12, Charing Cross to Tonbridge via New Beckenham
Bri had a quick look this morning have you got sig 267 in auto as thats the only way I can see it routing to Hither Green.

With 267 not in auto 5Y12 comes to a stand at Parks Bridge Jcn without any further route called by ARS - Mantis 21016 applies

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 01/07/2018 at 18:40 #110001
GeoffM
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bri2808 in post 109995 said:
Meld in post 109809 said:
bri2808 in post 109793 said:

5) Also, several times in the timetable provided the trains from Charing Cross to Hayes that bypass Lewisham arrive at Parks Bridge Jct and attempt to set ARS towards Hither Green as opposed to Catord Bridge.

Brian
Brian, Make sure you have the latest TT v1.2.02 please it should have automatically updated, If you could make a note as to which are attempting to set a wrong ARS route with TD & UID in this thread - I'll take a look and see if theres anything amiss

Cheers

John
John

Running up to date TT now and the first train to go wrong at parks bridge jct is 5Y12, Charing Cross to Tonbridge via New Beckenham
Which signal are you having problems at? Parks Bridge is a big junction and sending the train on its booked route works fine.

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 01/07/2018 at 19:07 #110002
bri2808
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Unless I am missing something there is no signal map so I cannot say (unless there is a way to tell from clicking on something and in which case excuse my ignorance.

I don't believe I had it set to auto Jon, but will keep an eye on any other issues at that signal

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 01/07/2018 at 19:45 #110003
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bri2808 in post 110002 said:
Unless I am missing something there is no signal map so I cannot say (unless there is a way to tell from clicking on something and in which case excuse my ignorance.

I don't believe I had it set to auto Jon, but will keep an eye on any other issues at that signal
Shift + right click on the signal to get it's number.

Or right click if you've amended the right click cancels route option.

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 01/07/2018 at 20:11 #110004
bri2808
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GeoffM in post 110001 said:
bri2808 in post 109995 said:
Meld in post 109809 said:
bri2808 in post 109793 said:

5) Also, several times in the timetable provided the trains from Charing Cross to Hayes that bypass Lewisham arrive at Parks Bridge Jct and attempt to set ARS towards Hither Green as opposed to Catord Bridge.

Brian
Brian, Make sure you have the latest TT v1.2.02 please it should have automatically updated, If you could make a note as to which are attempting to set a wrong ARS route with TD & UID in this thread - I'll take a look and see if theres anything amiss

Cheers

John
John

Running up to date TT now and the first train to go wrong at parks bridge jct is 5Y12, Charing Cross to Tonbridge via New Beckenham
Which signal are you having problems at? Parks Bridge is a big junction and sending the train on its booked route works fine.
It is indeed Signal 267 and having checked back it is not set to Auto... The ARS sets to continue on the FL towards Hither Green and Grove Park - Anyway, its no biggy only that John said to advise of any issues from that signal earlier in the post

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 02/07/2018 at 05:37 #110007
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Had 2E29 receive a Wrong Route message from signal 629 DN PORTSMOUTH. F2 reports train at South Bermondsey Jn.

Report on Mantis 21023.

Barry

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 02/07/2018 at 19:55 #110029
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bri2808 in post 110004 said:
It is indeed Signal 267 and having checked back it is not set to Auto... The ARS sets to continue on the FL towards Hither Green and Grove Park - Anyway, its no biggy only that John said to advise of any issues from that signal earlier in the post
Interposing the train at 267 causes ARS to set route to Ladywell.

BarryM in post 110007 said:
Had 2E29 receive a Wrong Route message from signal 629 DN PORTSMOUTH. F2 reports train at South Bermondsey Jn.

Report on Mantis 21023.

Barry
That sounds like you've mixed up the TDs.

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 03/07/2018 at 00:49 #110033
BarryM
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GeoffM in post 110029 said:
bri2808 in post 110004 said:
It is indeed Signal 267 and having checked back it is not set to Auto... The ARS sets to continue on the FL towards Hither Green and Grove Park - Anyway, its no biggy only that John said to advise of any issues from that signal earlier in the post
Interposing the train at 267 causes ARS to set route to Ladywell.

BarryM in post 110007 said:
Had 2E29 receive a Wrong Route message from signal 629 DN PORTSMOUTH. F2 reports train at South Bermondsey Jn.

Report on Mantis 21023.

Barry
That sounds like you've mixed up the TDs.
You are right. An ARS decision. Two services into P13 LB.

Barry

Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 03/07/2018 at 17:47 #110039
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BarryM in post 110033 said:
You are right. An ARS decision. Two services into P13 LB.
ARS would not have done that as they were two completely independent trains. If you put two trains in the same platform then you need to remember which way around they are.

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 04/07/2018 at 12:05 #110055
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GeoffM in post 110039 said:
BarryM in post 110033 said:
You are right. An ARS decision. Two services into P13 LB.
ARS would not have done that as they were two completely independent trains. If you put two trains in the same platform then you need to remember which way around they are.
Correct! Turns out to be an operator error in conjunction with a Timetable error. 2U95 was tabled to depart LB P13 at 18:20 whilst 2U92/2E29 was tabled to arrive at LB P13 at 18:20!

Barry

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 04/07/2018 at 23:00 #110064
Steamer
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bri2808 in post 110002 said:
Unless I am missing something there is no signal map so I cannot say (unless there is a way to tell from clicking on something and in which case excuse my ignorance.
Signal plan now added to manual

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 06/07/2018 at 20:36 #110097
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Ok, so next Hayes train to set the wrong route is 2v22 10:06 Charing X to Hayes at signl 267. ARS tries to send the train to Hither Green and Grove Park

And no I don't have the route set to auto

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 06/07/2018 at 21:04 #110098
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bri2808 in post 110097 said:
Ok, so next Hayes train to set the wrong route is 2v22 10:06 Charing X to Hayes at signl 267. ARS tries to send the train to Hither Green and Grove Park

And no I don't have the route set to auto
Bri

Because it seems to be happening in some sort of random fashion there is possibly something else in the sim that is causing the problem (maybe because another signal or path has been typo'd when the code was written and the other train is interfering with S267). Do you have any saved games from not long before the incident so that people can run through and a) see if the problem repeats itself and b) try and identify the cause?

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 06/07/2018 at 21:32 #110099
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Not sure if this save is already too late or not, but it shows ARS attempting to set a wrong route for 5V62 if you remove the reminder on signal 271.
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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 07/07/2018 at 00:16 #110100
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Jan in post 110099 said:
Not sure if this save is already too late or not, but it shows ARS attempting to set a wrong route for 5V62 if you remove the reminder on signal 271.
It is helpful to see it but it is too late unfortunately. The data shows it trying to route up to signal 271 but not how it got into that state. If you make that train ARS again it correctly routes to 361. So something must have happened earlier to it.

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Some observations and questions around London Bridge 07/07/2018 at 06:18 #110103
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So, not sure where it is at the start of the save, but 2V24 1036 Charing X to Hayes if on ARS will set route past signal 267 towards Hither Green and not towards Ladywell
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