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Cathcart Released 10/09/2018 at 21:21 #112050
headshot119
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Cathcart, a simulation of part of the Glasgow Suburban network (Please note this is not a simulation of Glasgow Central), simulating the Cathcart Circle, and Neilston branch. The simulation reflects the OCS nature of the panel, but this option can be turned off and the simulation used in the traditional SimSig sense.

Product page here

Download via "Check for Updates"

"As the last track dropped, and the route became free, came the cry BROMLEY " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Cathcart Released 10/09/2018 at 22:51 #112061
Ron_J
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Any chance of a screenshot?
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Cathcart Released 11/09/2018 at 00:06 #112066
Muzer
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Looks like an interesting sim; I've always wondered how an OCS sim would play! Don't have time to try it out tonight, but many thanks as ever! I guess, subject to timetable, it would also chain with Motherwell, thus providing a useful one-player add-on to that sim for some circumstances!
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Cathcart Released 11/09/2018 at 01:26 #112069
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Oh, now there's a "blast from the past". Not only a panel I worked as part of TCB training, but part of my commute from Patterton in 1981/82. Nice one, chaps!

Regarding the interface with Motherwell, my 1983 Sectional Appendix states "all lines between Newton West Jn (exclusive) and Cathcart West Jn are controlled from Cathcart". That included the reversing crossover at Kirkhill. Cathcart still had control of Kirkhill around 1987, though I think the reversing crossover had gone by then.

A version of the simulation which included Kirkhill crossover would enhance the simulation nicely for 1970s BR days since half the trains on the Kirkhill route terminated there, with the other half continuing on to Newton.

Last edited: 11/09/2018 at 14:12 by whatlep
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Cathcart Released 11/09/2018 at 07:33 #112072
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Ron_J in post 112061 said:
Any chance of a screenshot?
Theres one on the simsig Facebook group currently but it does have the simsig logo marked over it.

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Cathcart Released 11/09/2018 at 07:52 #112073
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Sounds like a nice sim!

Forgive me for asking, but what is 'OCS'?
I can only think of "On Course Side", but that's more a sailing-term, probably something totally different here.

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Cathcart Released 11/09/2018 at 08:58 #112075
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Vloris

OCS is shorthand for One Control Switch. Think the panel equivalent of levers. In a lot of cases, certainly where I am, if there were two or more routes from a traditional semaphore signal you might get one arm with a route indicator underneath. In order to get the signal to clear you would have to set all the points for the route and then the penultimate lever you pulled would be the route lever (So called because it operated the route indicator) and then finally the actual lever to move the arm. With an OCS panel each route from a signal has its own switch rather than a button at the entrance and then a button at the exit of the route.

Paul

You have to get a red before you can get any other colour
Last edited: 11/09/2018 at 09:03 by DriverCurran
Reason: Explanation entered

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Cathcart Released 11/09/2018 at 09:50 #112076
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A picture of the 1951 example at York here https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidh73/24171571365 and you can see it working from 0:21 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN_lTuJsIaY

Basically, turning one of the switches called all the points in the route (provided the requisite track circuits were clear and no conflicting route set) and cleared a signal to the appropriate indication. As you can see there were a lot of switches and, except on the smallest panels, they had to be located on a separate console, which meant the same kind of learning task as for a lever frame. (St Pancras was even worse, with a couple of signals that had something like 16 routes - shunt and main routes had separate switches even when they went to the same destination. Among the 16 were a couple of alternative routes to the same destination, so 2 main & 2 shunt switches, and if you cleared the wrong route for an incoming train you could pretty much box yourself up for the whole of the peak!) NX is so much easier to learn, and also capable of being contained in a much smaller space; no wonder it swept all before it.

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Cathcart Released 11/09/2018 at 11:14 #112077
Jan
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There's also a nice explanatory document in the British Power Signalling Register archive download that amongst other things also includes an explanation of the various route setting methodologies employed at one time or other in UK signalling.
Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
Last edited: 11/09/2018 at 11:14 by Jan
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Cathcart Released 12/09/2018 at 16:54 #112114
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What's the reason that signal 56 never clears to a less restrictive aspect than single yellow?
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Cathcart Released 12/09/2018 at 17:20 #112116
Peter Bennet
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It's an error in the display, but not the function.
I'll do an update over the weekend, just to see if anything else comes up.

Peter

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Cathcart Released 12/09/2018 at 21:22 #112127
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Just for interest/ fun, attached is a copy of the original (1961) signalling plan at the Kirkhill end of Cathcart panel. I'll confess that the existence of Kirkhill Jn, the signalbox Cathcart took over, and the goods-only line thence to Carmyle was unknown to me, though I remember the crossover at Kirkhill and the interface with Newton. I don't recall ever seeing the two sets of sidings, but someone will know better than I when they closed.

The junction signalling shown here only lasted to 1966 when the line to Carmyle closed, but if memory isn't playing tricks, the remaining Newton line signals were retained as shown/ numbered until Newton box closed in 1991 and the new interface between Motherwell PSB and Cathcart as shown in the Simsig simulation came into being.

It would be very cool if a pre-1991 version complete with Kirkhill crossover could be created....

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Cathcart Released 13/09/2018 at 09:13 #112133
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Question for anyone in the know. Why was the Neilston line truncated?

It seems strange to cut it off from the G&SW so close to the junction at Barrhead rather than retain it as a through route if needed

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Cathcart Released 13/09/2018 at 12:47 #112137
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jc92 in post 112133 said:
Question for anyone in the know. Why was the Neilston line truncated?

It seems strange to cut it off from the G&SW so close to the junction at Barrhead rather than retain it as a through route if needed
Your geography is a bit off, I'm afraid. There wasn't a junction at Barrhead, though there were multiple junctions further south around Lugton. Remember that the current Barrhead line was built by one company (eventually the Glasgow & South Western) and the Neilston line was built by a different one (Caledonian Railway). The two companies were in deep competition for the Clyde Coast traffic, with the Caledonian very much the second best option.

The Neilston line wasn't even conceived as a passenger route originally. It was intended as a freight route from the Clyde to the Motherwell area. As first built, at Cathcart there was no connection from the Neilston route to Cathcart station and Glasgow. Instead, the Neilston line joined the Kirkhill route to the east of the junction right at the southwest end of Cathcart station. The current junction arrangements were installed later. See: http://www.scotcities.com/cathcart/intro.htm for maps and a nice view of the former goods yard adjacent to Cathcart station.

The line closed beyond Neilston simply because there was not much reason to keep it. Passenger traffic to the Clyde coast was concentrated on the faster, more direct GSW route after nationalisation while freight traffic declined steeply here, as elsewhere, after the lorry market was deregulated in the mid-1950s. So the line reverted to a purely suburban role, with a long, rather rural tail from Whitecraigs to Neilston. Subsequent building around Patterton (Newton Mearns) has changed the line's passenger potential there out of all recognition, but the Neilston section remains delightfully rural.

Last edited: 13/09/2018 at 12:48 by whatlep
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Cathcart Released 16/09/2018 at 21:37 #112189
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A 1982-83 timetable is now available for the Cathcart simulation. Ten trains per hour during the day rather than 6 and a bonus extra train during the rush hours! A short version focussing on the evening rush hour is also available.

Donwloadable from the timetable section's root folder, pending a dedicated Cathcart sub-folder.

Last edited: 16/09/2018 at 21:37 by whatlep
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Cathcart Released 16/09/2018 at 21:38 #112190
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Panel signals seems to have no effect on this sim? I still see full aspects for all signals
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Cathcart Released 18/09/2018 at 20:41 #112219
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Is there a reason why Signal 56 at Pollokshields West does not clear to green?

Chris

Sorry - just read the post above. Please ignore. C

Last edited: 18/09/2018 at 21:13 by WesternChampion
Reason: Point already raised

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Cathcart Released 18/09/2018 at 21:37 #112221
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Further to the Neilston/Barrhead conversation, if anyone is track-bashing it is a 15-minute bus-ride between Neilston and Barrhead to save a long trek back to Glasgow and out again.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Cathcart Released 20/09/2018 at 06:59 #112237
Peter Bennet
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jc92 in post 112190 said:
Panel signals seems to have no effect on this sim? I still see full aspects for all signals
It's a side effect of the one button modelling.
Peter

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Cathcart Released 17/10/2018 at 13:04 #112701
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Ive just made the initial wikipage with the link to the manual and difficulty rating. I thought it was time for somebody to make it after having been out for just over a month.
SamTDS - STDS | My comments are my opinions and interpretations and do not reflect on the wonderfull SimSig team. I am in no way part of the team.
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Cathcart Released 17/10/2018 at 17:57 #112705
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SamTDS in post 112701 said:
Ive just made the initial wikipage with the link to the manual and difficulty rating. I thought it was time for somebody to make it after having been out for just over a month.
Well done sir. Purely FYI, when opened in 1961 there were goods yards at Maxwell Park, Cathcart, Kings Park, Burnside, Kirkhill, Kirkhill Junction, and Muirend with up side loops at Cathcart and Kings Park, both available for "footex" traffic.

Transfer of control for the line between Burnside and Newton West Jn from Cathcart to Motherwell PSB was in June 1991.

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Cathcart Released 17/10/2018 at 19:48 #112711
TUT
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GeoffM in post 112710 said:
TUT in post 112709 said:
GeoffM in post 112708 said:
SamTDS in post 112701 said:
Ive just made the initial wikipage with the link to the manual and difficulty rating. I thought it was time for somebody to make it after having been out for just over a month.
I'm not entirely clear what the purpose of this page is when it appears you copied a chunk of the original manual, added a difficulty section, and misspelled Peter's name?

https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=simulations:cathcart
https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:areainfo:cathcart

If you can add to the existing manual then great.

[Edit] It's been pointed out to me that there are a number of pages like this. I'll rephrase to "I'm not sure of the purpose of this whole section" then.
For me personally, I do appreciate the areainfo section of the Wiki very much when it includes a nice, full size image of the simulation. In the old days when you had to go and find a sim and download it in order to open it up these pages were really useful for deciding on which sim to play next and it meant you didn't have to install any exe sims to check them out, or clutter up your loader menu with loads of sims you didn't even have licenses for or any intention of playing (in those days of course, sims you didn't have licenses for weren't shown in pink). Now, of course, sims basically download themselves and it may seem like these pages are a little redundant. But I still really appreciate them, because it can take time to load up a sim and comparing three or four at a time in order to decide what to buy is so much easier when you can just have the pictures open in some tabs in your browser. Unfortunately no such image has been added to Catchart's new page, but I definitely like this whole section. I also found the difficulty rating a nice little guide when I was new to SimSig, although I disagree with some of the classifications. As it happens I was only just a few minutes ago whiling away some of my precious, limited time on earth flicking through this section of the wiki, and I definitely think Portsmouth deserves an intermediate rating and I'd nominate Salisbury and WembleySub for consideration for promotion too :P
Hmm yes, but my point was why there are separate pages that duplicate much of the manuals themselves. Why not put the pictures and anything not currently in the manual into the manual?
Well I suppose it's a synopsis? A handy guide for when you're deciding what to buy next. And then the manuals, which can be long and detailed, go into the operating instructions for when you actually have the sim. But certain information could well have a place in both, like a brief overview of the area is nice when selecting a sim and it also has an obvious place in the introduction of the manual.

I myself have never made a contribution to the wiki so I don't know what the original intention was or whether we couldn't improve things a bit, or whether Cathcart's areainfo page could be improved, but I definitely see the value in the areainfo pages for getting buyers interested and helping users select the next sim they wanna get their teeth into (donationware or payware) or looking back through old sims they've already played to decide which ones they might wanna have another go at. Or even for pure reminiscing. And I wouldn't have said the manuals would be improved if any information already found in the areainfo page were purged from them and not everyone will read both pages.

Last edited: 17/10/2018 at 20:56 by TUT
Reason: None given

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Cathcart Released 17/10/2018 at 19:59 #112708
GeoffM
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SamTDS in post 112701 said:
Ive just made the initial wikipage with the link to the manual and difficulty rating. I thought it was time for somebody to make it after having been out for just over a month.
I'm not entirely clear what the purpose of this page is when it appears you copied a chunk of the original manual, added a difficulty section, and misspelled Peter's name?

https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=simulations:cathcart
https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:areainfo:cathcart

If you can add to the existing manual then great.

[Edit] It's been pointed out to me that there are a number of pages like this. I'll rephrase to "I'm not sure of the purpose of this whole section" then.

SimSig Boss
Last edited: 17/10/2018 at 20:03 by GeoffM
Reason: None given

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Cathcart Released 17/10/2018 at 20:30 #112709
TUT
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GeoffM in post 112708 said:
SamTDS in post 112701 said:
Ive just made the initial wikipage with the link to the manual and difficulty rating. I thought it was time for somebody to make it after having been out for just over a month.
I'm not entirely clear what the purpose of this page is when it appears you copied a chunk of the original manual, added a difficulty section, and misspelled Peter's name?

https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=simulations:cathcart
https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:areainfo:cathcart

If you can add to the existing manual then great.

[Edit] It's been pointed out to me that there are a number of pages like this. I'll rephrase to "I'm not sure of the purpose of this whole section" then.
For me personally, I do appreciate the areainfo section of the Wiki very much when it includes a nice, full size image of the simulation. In the old days when you had to go and find a sim and download it in order to open it up these pages were really useful for deciding on which sim to play next and it meant you didn't have to install any exe sims to check them out, or clutter up your loader menu with loads of sims you didn't even have licenses for or any intention of playing (in those days of course, sims you didn't have licenses for weren't shown in pink). Now, of course, sims basically download themselves and it may seem like these pages are a little redundant. But I still really appreciate them, because it can take time to load up a sim and comparing three or four at a time in order to decide what to buy is so much easier when you can just have the pictures open in some tabs in your browser. Unfortunately no such image has been added to Catchart's new page, but I definitely like this whole section. I also found the difficulty rating a nice little guide when I was new to SimSig, although I disagree with some of the classifications. As it happens I was only just a few minutes ago whiling away some of my precious, limited time on earth flicking through this section of the wiki, and I definitely think Portsmouth deserves an intermediate rating and I'd nominate Salisbury and WembleySub for consideration for promotion too

Last edited: 17/10/2018 at 20:31 by TUT
Reason: None given

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Cathcart Released 17/10/2018 at 20:39 #112710
GeoffM
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TUT in post 112709 said:
GeoffM in post 112708 said:
SamTDS in post 112701 said:
Ive just made the initial wikipage with the link to the manual and difficulty rating. I thought it was time for somebody to make it after having been out for just over a month.
I'm not entirely clear what the purpose of this page is when it appears you copied a chunk of the original manual, added a difficulty section, and misspelled Peter's name?

https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=simulations:cathcart
https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:areainfo:cathcart

If you can add to the existing manual then great.

[Edit] It's been pointed out to me that there are a number of pages like this. I'll rephrase to "I'm not sure of the purpose of this whole section" then.
For me personally, I do appreciate the areainfo section of the Wiki very much when it includes a nice, full size image of the simulation. In the old days when you had to go and find a sim and download it in order to open it up these pages were really useful for deciding on which sim to play next and it meant you didn't have to install any exe sims to check them out, or clutter up your loader menu with loads of sims you didn't even have licenses for or any intention of playing (in those days of course, sims you didn't have licenses for weren't shown in pink). Now, of course, sims basically download themselves and it may seem like these pages are a little redundant. But I still really appreciate them, because it can take time to load up a sim and comparing three or four at a time in order to decide what to buy is so much easier when you can just have the pictures open in some tabs in your browser. Unfortunately no such image has been added to Catchart's new page, but I definitely like this whole section. I also found the difficulty rating a nice little guide when I was new to SimSig, although I disagree with some of the classifications. As it happens I was only just a few minutes ago whiling away some of my precious, limited time on earth flicking through this section of the wiki, and I definitely think Portsmouth deserves an intermediate rating and I'd nominate Salisbury and WembleySub for consideration for promotion too :P
Hmm yes, but my point was why there are separate pages that duplicate much of the manuals themselves. Why not put the pictures and anything not currently in the manual into the manual?

SimSig Boss
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