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1F64 stuck entering

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1F64 stuck entering 25/10/2018 at 23:56 #112885
SamTDS
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1F64 just entered Baguley fold junction due to go through manchester victoria yet reports stopped at BF18 towards ashburys with no approach indication. Now the train is stuck there unable to move, in my train list yet not on my screen. For now i think i will remove her so that i can continue playing. My save with the issue is as attached along with the save before.

It is a shame that i am coming across these errors just for this sim and not encountering errors for others. I still wont refund as Geoff and the Developers deserve the money for the time they put in.

UPDATE: Telling 1F64 to pass at danger makes her appear in the correct location with the missing TD marker

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SamTDS - STDS | My comments are my opinions and interpretations and do not reflect on the wonderfull SimSig team. I am in no way part of the team.
Last edited: 26/10/2018 at 00:02 by SamTDS
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1F64 stuck entering 26/10/2018 at 01:07 #112886
MarkC
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The reason for 1F64 being held at signal BF18 is due to 6E06.

6E06 has just past signal BF30 which will take the train in front of 1F64 so therefore 1F64 is being held at signal BF18.

As the juction is not in the viewable area of Manchester North you the signaller don't see it but there is an element of basic automatic control in off screen locations (basicly 1st come 1st served).

As you had already routed 6E06 to signal BF30 that train got the priority on the route, and as for the TD missing that is something that can happen when you talk a train pass a red signal. this case tho the TD wouldn't appear until the train was routed to the next signal either BF16 or the next signal on the DN Bagley (signal 835 on Manchester North).

On the attached picture which is a screenshot from Manchester East Bagley fold Jn panel, Highlighted in yellow is Signal BF18 and the line in marron is the path of 6E06 that has been routed, this junction is where the issue of 1F64 lies

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It's not my fault! I was left unsupervised.
Last edited: 26/10/2018 at 01:20 by MarkC
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1F64 stuck entering 26/10/2018 at 01:22 #112887
SamTDS
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Ah that makes sense, a sugestion then is something to show that BF18 applies to both entry points which would reduce the confusion caused from seeing the message.
SamTDS - STDS | My comments are my opinions and interpretations and do not reflect on the wonderfull SimSig team. I am in no way part of the team.
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1F64 stuck entering 26/10/2018 at 01:29 #112888
TUT
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Also I would just chip in that SimSig now has dozens of sims available which all rely on the core code and sometimes a change to the core code can break one tiny thing on one of those dozens of sims (possibly just in one era, possibly just in the event of one randomly generated failure) and sometimes it can take a while for some user to have the misfortune of stumbling upon it. I myself played through a timetable from start to finish on Manchester North only recently and didn't have any problems, but you know, as I've been saying, sometimes I little bug can creep in somewhere insidiously. Usually fixes are forthcoming quite quickly though. Of course, it's a little frustrating finding bugs, especially having paid money. I had a lot of problems with Victoria South Eastern (payware) and I'm currently on a SimSig hiatus while I wait with baited breath for the fixes to Carlisle (donationware) to be rolled out so I can sink my teeth into that one as soon as it's ready. But, you know, really quite a lot of software, programs and operating systems and everything else these days gets released and then patched and updated and fixed. And even with more traditional goods, you have to take the car to the garage to get stuff fixed every now and again.
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1F64 stuck entering 26/10/2018 at 01:53 #112889
MarkC
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TUT in post 112888 said:
Also I would just chip in that SimSig now has dozens of sims available which all rely on the core code and sometimes a change to the core code can break one tiny thing on one of those dozens of sims (possibly just in one era, possibly just in the event of one randomly generated failure) and sometimes it can take a while for some user to have the misfortune of stumbling upon it. I myself played through a timetable from start to finish on Manchester North only recently and didn't have any problems, but you know, as I've been saying, sometimes I little bug can creep in somewhere insidiously. Usually fixes are forthcoming quite quickly though. Of course, it's a little frustrating finding bugs, especially having paid money. I had a lot of problems with Victoria South Eastern (payware) and I'm currently on a SimSig hiatus while I wait with baited breath for the fixes to Carlisle (donationware) to be rolled out so I can sink my teeth into that one as soon as it's ready. But, you know, really quite a lot of software, programs and operating systems and everything else these days gets released and then patched and updated and fixed. And even with more traditional goods, you have to take the car to the garage to get stuff fixed every now and again.
While core code updates can cause issues, I do not belive that to be the case in this instance as one of the saves is from 5 days ago 20/10/2018 (181020-232215 sim time 101847.ssg) and I am not aware of any loader updates in that time. given that the save from the 20th had been ran for at least 6hrs and that no other issues along this lines has been reported, It appears most likely that the routing of 6E06 is the cause.

It's not my fault! I was left unsupervised.
Last edited: 26/10/2018 at 01:53 by MarkC
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1F64 stuck entering 26/10/2018 at 09:47 #112890
TUT
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MarkC in post 112889 said:
TUT in post 112888 said:
Also I would just chip in that SimSig now has dozens of sims available which all rely on the core code and sometimes a change to the core code can break one tiny thing on one of those dozens of sims (possibly just in one era, possibly just in the event of one randomly generated failure) and sometimes it can take a while for some user to have the misfortune of stumbling upon it. I myself played through a timetable from start to finish on Manchester North only recently and didn't have any problems, but you know, as I've been saying, sometimes I little bug can creep in somewhere insidiously. Usually fixes are forthcoming quite quickly though. Of course, it's a little frustrating finding bugs, especially having paid money. I had a lot of problems with Victoria South Eastern (payware) and I'm currently on a SimSig hiatus while I wait with baited breath for the fixes to Carlisle (donationware) to be rolled out so I can sink my teeth into that one as soon as it's ready. But, you know, really quite a lot of software, programs and operating systems and everything else these days gets released and then patched and updated and fixed. And even with more traditional goods, you have to take the car to the garage to get stuff fixed every now and again.
While core code updates can cause issues, I do not belive that to be the case in this instance as one of the saves is from 5 days ago 20/10/2018 (181020-232215 sim time 101847.ssg) and I am not aware of any loader updates in that time. given that the save from the 20th had been ran for at least 6hrs and that no other issues along this lines has been reported, It appears most likely that the routing of 6E06 is the cause.
Absolutely. No I'm sure you've diagnosed the issue exactly. I just noticed the OP was disappointed to have come across 'these errors' and was talking about refunds, and I just thought it was worth a mention, especially as I can't remember any problems on my recent play-through. You're right about this issue though I'm sure.

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1F64 stuck entering 26/10/2018 at 10:26 #112891
9pN1SEAp
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A similar thing happened to me on East with an early freight having to be talked though from PP South to Ashburys in order to unblock Baguley Fold for a Stalybridge service. Seems the AI in non-chained mode doesn't quite understand how to avoid deadlocking the junctions
Jamie S (JAMS)
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1F64 stuck entering 26/10/2018 at 11:04 #112892
Albert
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I don't quite understand what the problem is in your case @9pN1SEAp, a long train with its tail blocking the points?

But in the case of @SamTDS, I think this deserves to be mentioned in the Wiki. Sims often includes a few oddities because they are also present in the real-life signal box the sim is trying to replicate, and this could be one of those.

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1F64 stuck entering 26/10/2018 at 12:05 #112893
headshot119
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First of all you've only reported two issues with the simulation, the first of which you can't provide us any details about what caused it to happen to aid us in fixing the problem. For the tape I spent a good hour testing various scenarios with the incident train and others in an attempt to track the issue down, but I couldn't.

Secondly, you jump to mentioning refunds, this is the first we've heard of this issue, at least give some opportunity for it to be looked into by the team, and it to be fixed if there is an actual issue. (I'm away with work at the moment so can't diagnose the problem reported from the save yet.)

Following on from that if there is an issue, your blame should probably be aimed at me, not GeoffM, nor James (the simulation developer), as I wrote the original off sim routing (used in Cardiff Valleys), and did all the crash testing for James before release. Further to that if there is an issue James is very good at getting updates out, so you won't be waiting long.

"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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1F64 stuck entering 26/10/2018 at 13:17 #112894
SamTDS
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I think some of you have misread what I was saying. I said that I would never refund and that developers deserved the money for their amazing work. I was just a bit upset about having the problems and working around them but I know its a vital part of software development and bring up what I find helps.

As for what I found it was less an issue and more of unexplained behaviour making me believe there was something up. MarkC did an amazing job finding what it was and explaining what happened clearly. From there i made the suggestion that it was mentioned that the signal the train reported at was related to both.

SamTDS - STDS | My comments are my opinions and interpretations and do not reflect on the wonderfull SimSig team. I am in no way part of the team.
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1F64 stuck entering 26/10/2018 at 13:37 #112895
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SamTDS in post 112894 said:
I think some of you have misread what I was saying. I said that I would never refund and that developers deserved the money for their amazing work. I was just a bit upset about having the problems and working around them but I know its a vital part of software development and bring up what I find helps.

As for what I found it was less an issue and more of unexplained behaviour making me believe there was something up. MarkC did an amazing job finding what it was and explaining what happened clearly. From there i made the suggestion that it was mentioned that the signal the train reported at was related to both.
Apologies if I came across that way. I only originally meant to chuck in two cents. It can happen. I remember Newport was released and all was well but then I believe a core code update caused a bit of a problem with Newport and a few other sims, so I sat on my hands for a while before playing it. It's also worth being aware that one of the wonderful things about SimSig is being able to turn failures on and trying to recover from the problem. This means, though, that it's impossible to test the sim in all of the weird and wonderful situations people can find themselves in. I generally like to wait for a few weeks after a sim is released before buying it to allow any bugs to be ironed out.

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1F64 stuck entering 26/10/2018 at 16:05 #112896
pedroathome
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SamTDS in post 112885 said:
1F64 just entered Baguley fold junction due to go through manchester victoria yet reports stopped at BF18 towards ashburys with no approach indication. Now the train is stuck there unable to move, in my train list yet not on my screen. For now i think i will remove her so that i can continue playing. My save with the issue is as attached along with the save before.

It is a shame that i am coming across these errors just for this sim and not encountering errors for others. I still wont refund as Geoff and the Developers deserve the money for the time they put in.

UPDATE: Telling 1F64 to pass at danger makes her appear in the correct location with the missing TD marker
I have just run your scenario while looking at the debug areas of Baguley. The sim works as expected.

The first screenshot shows Baguley Fold Junction's debug area at 10:26 as 1F64 enters the sim. As you will see, 6E06 (which is running approx 9 mins late I believe it was) has already had the route set.



At 10:30, the freight train is clear of the junction, and thus allows the off sim routing to set the route for 1F64.



There is, generally speaking, a 2 minute timer for a train waiting at a red signal before phoning you. On the next update, I will set it that a train entering from here will not phone you until it has passed the final appropriate Baguley Junction signal.


As for the shame for coming across these errors point, I think you have just been unlucky in the way these trains have entered the sim for you. No matter how many times you run a timetable, (And I'm sure its been run many times by now in the 11 months (Or there about) that the sim has been released), both in testing and after release, just a slight variation on what time a train enters can cause a different experience. To add here, if the freight had entered as little as 2 mins either way you'd have had no calls here, and maybe a small delay.



James

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1F64 stuck entering 28/10/2018 at 21:41 #112952
Albert
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As we've figured out the problem, I made a note in the Wiki page for the sim that incoming trains on the Up Ashton line can be held at BF18.
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