Manchester South FAQ

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Manchester South FAQ 18/12/2018 at 18:05 #114149
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whatlep in post 114148 said:
Further issue - trains entering from Northwich South Jn

There seems to be something preventing trains entering from Northwich if a train has previously used the line from Sandbach northbound. Using the attached file, starting at 00:00 northbound trains work fine, but trains due to enter at Northwich never appear. With a start time of 02:40 the southbound train due at 02.41MX works fine.
See pedroathome's post further up this thread- he's aware of it and it will be fixed in the next update.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Manchester South FAQ 18/12/2018 at 19:39 #114152
pedroathome
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whatlep in post 114100 said:
Further issue - trains entering from Northwich South Jn

There seems to be something preventing trains entering from Northwich if a train has previously used the line from Sandbach northbound. Using the attached file, starting at 00:00 northbound trains work fine, but trains due to enter at Northwich never appear. With a start time of 02:40 the southbound train due at 02.41MX works fine.
I've got one other issue to fix, and an update shall be made available

whatlep in post 114148 said:

EDIT - one other item noted. The line codes when timetabling heading south from Sandbach have FL/SL as options, though onscreen designations are Up/Down Wilmslow for the fast/ passenger lines and up/down Manchester Independent for the slow/ goods lines as per the Sectional Appendix. Deliberate to make timetabling easier?
While I cant explain the line codes, I suspct that this is a throw back to when there was a crossover at Sydney Bridge Junction, and lines were identified as Fast (Current Crewe Line) and Slow (Current Salop Goods Line)

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Manchester South FAQ 21/12/2018 at 09:32 #114197
Javelin395
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Problem with 6Z07 on DN Middlewich. It comes to a stand just short of the access to British Salt Siding and shows as stopped at signal (there is no signal there on the screen). Eventually rings in then proceeds when authorized to pass signal at danger.

This is running original release of sim. Save available if needed.

Cheers

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Manchester South FAQ 21/12/2018 at 12:18 #114201
pedroathome
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Javelin395 in post 114197 said:
Problem with 6Z07 on DN Middlewich. It comes to a stand just short of the access to British Salt Siding and shows as stopped at signal (there is no signal there on the screen). Eventually rings in then proceeds when authorized to pass signal at danger.

This is running original release of sim. Save available if needed.

Cheers
Sounds like you're running the updated version, Version 1.1?

If you could drop me a save, then I can take a look at it closer

James

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Manchester South FAQ 21/12/2018 at 15:01 #114205
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Attached save has 6Z07 on the Middlewich single line. When run for about 5mins, 6z07 reproducibly comes to a stand with status "stopped at signal British Salt Siding GF" and should then call in to report this at 06.17 sim time.

Note, I am indeed running sim v1.1 but continuing a session that believe was started on the original release.

Am also chained with Stockport and noticed that when TD's are transferred in either direction there is quite a delay before clicking on the APPR berth calls up the relevant TT.

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Manchester South FAQ 21/12/2018 at 17:23 #114206
whatlep
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Many thanks to pedroathome for the recent update which addresses issues with the sidings around Sandbach & Middlewich and (I think) also fixes a sequencing issue on the Northwich single line. 1977 timetabling continues....
Last edited: 21/12/2018 at 17:23 by whatlep
Reason: None given

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Manchester South FAQ 21/12/2018 at 22:53 #114209
pedroathome
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Javelin395 in post 114205 said:
Attached save has 6Z07 on the Middlewich single line. When run for about 5mins, 6z07 reproducibly comes to a stand with status "stopped at signal British Salt Siding GF" and should then call in to report this at 06.17 sim time.

Note, I am indeed running sim v1.1 but continuing a session that believe was started on the original release.

Am also chained with Stockport and noticed that when TD's are transferred in either direction there is quite a delay before clicking on the APPR berth calls up the relevant TT.
Fixed for the next update. The updated version wasen't the cause here, it was a little logic back to front.

TDs are reliant on a route being set through before populating the appproach berth on either sim, I think with the exception on Stockport on the last 2 signals to South where they populate the approach berth anyway as there is no other route for trains to take.

James

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Manchester South FAQ 03/01/2019 at 23:30 #114566
belly buster
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In the attached save I can't route 1V39 from 4390 (Stockport up slow) to 4388 saying subroute locked in opposite direction. It doesn't immediately look like this should be a conflict.
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Manchester South FAQ 03/01/2019 at 23:37 #114567
pedroathome
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belly buster in post 114566 said:
In the attached save I can't route 1V39 from 4390 (Stockport up slow) to 4388 saying subroute locked in opposite direction. It doesn't immediately look like this should be a conflict.
From the manual:
Cheadle Hulme

There are restrictions on which routes can be set simultaneously over the junction. This is down to the positioning of Points 5250. When trying to set such routes, you will get a message along the lines of “No Overlap Available”, or “Subroute Locked in Opposite Direction”.

For example, if you have a route set, Signal 385 to Signal 391, along with the route, Signal 4390 to Signal 4388, you cannot set the route, Signal 4125 to Signal 4395.

====
As for why in sim you get the message relating to no overlap being available. For all intents and purposes the signal concerned have a longer (but hidden) overlap which enforces this. This is obviousally hidden, and the status of the tracks in said overlap are also not considerd.


James

Last edited: 03/01/2019 at 23:39 by pedroathome
Reason: None given

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Manchester South FAQ 03/01/2019 at 23:50 #114568
belly buster
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pedroathome in post 114567 said:
belly buster in post 114566 said:
In the attached save I can't route 1V39 from 4390 (Stockport up slow) to 4388 saying subroute locked in opposite direction. It doesn't immediately look like this should be a conflict.
From the manual:
Cheadle Hulme

There are restrictions on which routes can be set simultaneously over the junction. This is down to the positioning of Points 5250. When trying to set such routes, you will get a message along the lines of “No Overlap Available”, or “Subroute Locked in Opposite Direction”.

For example, if you have a route set, Signal 385 to Signal 391, along with the route, Signal 4390 to Signal 4388, you cannot set the route, Signal 4125 to Signal 4395.

====
As for why in sim you get the message relating to no overlap being available. For all intents and purposes the signal concerned have a longer (but hidden) overlap which enforces this. This is obviousally hidden, and the status of the tracks in said overlap are also not considerd.


James
Right I see. I think the presence of 1H63 on the down line locking the points which is what confused me - i.e. I was sure I had set up the same routes earlier and it had worked.

Oh yeah and RTFM of course ... :)

Thanks for the sim btw.

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Manchester South FAQ 18/01/2019 at 15:12 #114852
whatlep
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Can one of the developers/ timetablers please explain the intended sequence of activities needed to get a train from Sandbach to British Salt's sidings at Middlewich? Also whether an inbound train should be timetabled with a "stop" or "pass" timing at the ground frame?

So far, I can find no other way than first releasing the ground frame and setting the route at the sidings, then talking an incoming train past signal 3729 at Sandbach. If a route is set past 3729 to Middlewich loop, it locks out the ground frame from being used (as I would expect without a "lock in" release button at the GF). If a train is talked past 3729 without the ground frame released, it stops at the GF and reports "held by conditions" if given a "stop" timing, or proceeds merrily onwards if given a "pass" timing.

Attached file can be used as a means of investigation. Check 6M46 on the Down Independent near Sandbach.

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Manchester South FAQ 19/01/2019 at 00:56 #114868
pedroathome
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whatlep in post 114852 said:
Can one of the developers/ timetablers please explain the intended sequence of activities needed to get a train from Sandbach to British Salt's sidings at Middlewich? Also whether an inbound train should be timetabled with a "stop" or "pass" timing at the ground frame?

So far, I can find no other way than first releasing the ground frame and setting the route at the sidings, then talking an incoming train past signal 3729 at Sandbach. If a route is set past 3729 to Middlewich loop, it locks out the ground frame from being used (as I would expect without a "lock in" release button at the GF). If a train is talked past 3729 without the ground frame released, it stops at the GF and reports "held by conditions" if given a "stop" timing, or proceeds merrily onwards if given a "pass" timing.

Attached file can be used as a means of investigation. Check 6M46 on the Down Independent near Sandbach.
Without 100% accurate information on the ground frame, so, I'll admit its bit of a comprimise, to release, there is a timer of I believe its 2 mins (Not in a position to be able to confirm right now). After the track has been occupied for that amount of time, the ground frame can be released as per normal. Note though that the route lights may not drop after this time

James

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Manchester South FAQ 19/01/2019 at 01:41 #114869
whatlep
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pedroathome in post 114868 said:
whatlep in post 114852 said:
Can one of the developers/ timetablers please explain the intended sequence of activities needed to get a train from Sandbach to British Salt's sidings at Middlewich? Also whether an inbound train should be timetabled with a "stop" or "pass" timing at the ground frame?

So far, I can find no other way than first releasing the ground frame and setting the route at the sidings, then talking an incoming train past signal 3729 at Sandbach. If a route is set past 3729 to Middlewich loop, it locks out the ground frame from being used (as I would expect without a "lock in" release button at the GF). If a train is talked past 3729 without the ground frame released, it stops at the GF and reports "held by conditions" if given a "stop" timing, or proceeds merrily onwards if given a "pass" timing.

Attached file can be used as a means of investigation. Check 6M46 on the Down Independent near Sandbach.
Without 100% accurate information on the ground frame, so, I'll admit its bit of a comprimise, to release, there is a timer of I believe its 2 mins (Not in a position to be able to confirm right now). After the track has been occupied for that amount of time, the ground frame can be released as per normal. Note though that the route lights may not drop after this time

James
Agreed that the GF does become available after a wait (no call in from the driver), but the train appears to remain "held by conditions". See attached file.

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Manchester South FAQ 19/01/2019 at 12:16 #114879
pedroathome
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whatlep in post 114869 said:
pedroathome in post 114868 said:
whatlep in post 114852 said:
Can one of the developers/ timetablers please explain the intended sequence of activities needed to get a train from Sandbach to British Salt's sidings at Middlewich? Also whether an inbound train should be timetabled with a "stop" or "pass" timing at the ground frame?

So far, I can find no other way than first releasing the ground frame and setting the route at the sidings, then talking an incoming train past signal 3729 at Sandbach. If a route is set past 3729 to Middlewich loop, it locks out the ground frame from being used (as I would expect without a "lock in" release button at the GF). If a train is talked past 3729 without the ground frame released, it stops at the GF and reports "held by conditions" if given a "stop" timing, or proceeds merrily onwards if given a "pass" timing.

Attached file can be used as a means of investigation. Check 6M46 on the Down Independent near Sandbach.
Without 100% accurate information on the ground frame, so, I'll admit its bit of a comprimise, to release, there is a timer of I believe its 2 mins (Not in a position to be able to confirm right now). After the track has been occupied for that amount of time, the ground frame can be released as per normal. Note though that the route lights may not drop after this time

James
Agreed that the GF does become available after a wait (no call in from the driver), but the train appears to remain "held by conditions". See attached file.
Fixed for the next update

James

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