Upcoming Games

No games to display

Full list
Add a game

Upcoming Events

Who's Online

Hap, JamesN, MarkC, Northern Line, pedroathome, postal (6 users seen recently)

Sim with the most track miles?

You are here: Home > Forum > General > General questions, comments, and issues > Sim with the most track miles?

Page 1 of 2

Sim with the most track miles? 10/02/2019 at 20:02 #115531
AndyNTH
Avatar
29 posts
As topic, does anyone know what this (or these) sims are? I understand the new Australian sim has the most, but what about British?
Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 10/02/2019 at 21:38 #115539
KymriskaDraken
Avatar
831 posts
if we're talking sims compared with signal boxes I would say maybe Hereford has got to be in with a chance. The Central Wales bit is 80-odd miles (at least it is by road) and Shrewsbury to Newport is another 90.

Kev

Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 10/02/2019 at 22:15 #115540
HST125Scorton
Avatar
559 posts
I'd Say Rugby SCC sims. Around 106 miles across all three panels and if you add on Staffordshire Sim that is 9 miles more, so 115 miles from Watford Jn Entry to Stafford Station., Although would it count from Stafford to Crewe Bas Hall Jn as thats Stoke if I remember correctly?
Aaron (AJRO)
Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 10/02/2019 at 22:33 #115542
flabberdacks
Avatar
253 posts
I wonder how Motherwell rates, with that huge panel 6?
Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 10/02/2019 at 22:35 #115543
GeoffM
Avatar
4503 posts
Bear in mind track miles are generally different from route miles. London Bridge to North Kent East Jn is only 4 route miles, but 44 track miles (roughly), for example.

Westbury is about 90 route miles on the Theale-Westbury-Athenley section. Guesstimating somewhat with a cold-ridden head but something like 220 track miles in one .sim.

SimSig Boss
Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 10/02/2019 at 22:42 #115544
bugsy
Avatar
480 posts
Edinburgh must have quite a few track miles as well as Route miles. Does anybody know how many?
My goodness, that was difficult, but I managed it.
Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 10/02/2019 at 22:48 #115545
KymriskaDraken
Avatar
831 posts
HST125Scorton in post 115540 said:
I'd Say Rugby SCC sims. Around 106 miles across all three panels and if you add on Staffordshire Sim that is 9 miles more, so 115 miles from Watford Jn Entry to Stafford Station., Although would it count from Stafford to Crewe Bas Hall Jn as thats Stoke if I remember correctly?
Rugby is three sims so there won't be much on each one. And you can't add on Staffs as a) it hasn't been released and b) the question said "sim" (singular) :)

Kev

Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 10/02/2019 at 22:49 #115546
KymriskaDraken
Avatar
831 posts
AndyNTH in post 115531 said:
As topic, does anyone know what this (or these) sims are? I understand the new Australian sim has the most, but what about British?
Did you mean route miles or track miles? As Geoff said they are two different things.


Kev

Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 10/02/2019 at 22:59 #115548
Andrew G
Avatar
507 posts
This doesn't include recent signalling schemes as the source book was published in 1981 it does include several released or in development simulations. It is worth noting it is based on the area covered at the time of initial commissioning or Extension where EXT is shown.

While it might have been trumped by now Edinburgh leads the way on both fronts with 221 Route Miles and 435 (Single) Track Miles.

Year commissioned in brackets R=Route Miles S=(Single) Track Miles

Kings Cross (1977) R=83.5 S=260
Peterborough (1972) R=59 S=176

Saltley (1969) R=90 S=210
Derby (1969) R=78 S=178
Trent (1969) R=74 S=209
Warrington (1972) R=62 S=145
Preston (1972-3) R=114 S=263
Carlise (1973) R=104 S=210
West Hampstead (1979-81) R=70 S=270

Motherwell (1972) R=124 S=278
Edinburgh (1979-81 R=221 S=435

Feltham (1974) R=70 S=138
London Bridge (1975) R=47 S=138
Victoria (1980) R=103 S=267

Slough (1963) R=19 S=70
Reading (1965 Ext 1979) R=104 S=272
Swindon (1968) R=70 S=135
Bristol (1970-71) R=114 S=254
Newport (1962 Ext 1968) R=45 S=125
Cardiff (1966) R=31 S=90
Port Talbot (1963 Ext 1973) R=71 S=163
Gloucester (1968-9) R=95 S=182

Last edited: 10/02/2019 at 23:03 by Andrew G
Reason: Date added for London Bridge

Log in to reply
The following users said thank you: Edgemaster, AndyNTH, Steamer
Sim with the most track miles? 10/02/2019 at 23:06 #115549
Peter Bennet
Avatar
4584 posts
bugsy in post 115544 said:
Edinburgh must have quite a few track miles as well as Route miles. Does anybody know how many?
Very rough estimate from google maps is 155 Route miles: based on Cupar, Polmont, Midcalder, Berwick UT, Fife loop.
Say 200 route miles, mainly double track, so 400.

Peter

One of the great problems of our age is that we are governed by people who care more about feelings than they do about thoughts and ideas.
Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: bugsy
Sim with the most track miles? 10/02/2019 at 23:24 #115550
clive
Avatar
1933 posts
The very simple script I generated this on just adds up the lengths of the track circuits; where there's more than one path through the TC, it takes the longest one. So crossovers will probably be excluded in most cases.

Numbers are metres and miles:

10130 6.294 Chicago Loop
18972 11.788 Llangollen
31126 19.340 Lancing
40643 25.254 Liverpool St
42425 26.361 Royston
50266 31.233 Portsmouth
[...]
545645 339.048 Peterborough
549858 341.666 Nescot
570352 354.400 YorkNS
633513 393.647 Motherwell
657260 408.402 Marylebone
956363 594.256 Moss Vale

Log in to reply
The following users said thank you: Edgemaster, AndyNTH
Sim with the most track miles? 11/02/2019 at 05:17 #115553
AndyNTH
Avatar
29 posts
Thanks for the replies everyone. I did not think Edinburgh would be the 'winner'! Also interesting the difference between route and track miles. Both are interesting to discuss but I did originally intend route miles.

Clive, thanks for your list. It seems that some sims (NEScot) are missed out by your method, surely?

I guess I am not really surprised to see Motherwell and Carlisle up the top there, but Port Talbot took me be surprise.

Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 11/02/2019 at 07:05 #115554
Peter Bennet
Avatar
4584 posts
Bit surprised Edinburgh's not in Clive's list. NESCOT is (using my very rough method) in the region of 250 miles.

Peter

One of the great problems of our age is that we are governed by people who care more about feelings than they do about thoughts and ideas.
Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 11/02/2019 at 12:10 #115569
ajax103
Avatar
636 posts
Got to ask but what's the difference between Route Miles and Track Miles?
Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 11/02/2019 at 12:16 #115571
pedroathome
Avatar
519 posts
Online
ajax103 in post 115569 said:
Got to ask but what's the difference between Route Miles and Track Miles?


My understanding is that Route Miles is the distance between 2 points, for example, Stockport is 5 miles from Slade Lane junction to Chedle Hulme, but, in track miles that would be approximately 20. 4 lines for most of the way, plus the extra "loops" at Stockport

Last edited: 11/02/2019 at 12:16 by pedroathome
Reason: None given

Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 11/02/2019 at 13:49 #115578
clive
Avatar
1933 posts
AndyNTH in post 115553 said:

Clive, thanks for your list. It seems that some sims (NEScot) are missed out by your method, surely?
Um, NEScot is right up there, between York and Peterborough.

Edinburgh is a .exe, which my analysis technique can't use.

Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 11/02/2019 at 13:55 #115579
clive
Avatar
1933 posts
clive in post 115578 said:
Edinburgh is a .exe, which my analysis technique can't use.
However, based on some old sources I found, it's 763818 metres, 474.615 miles, putting it at the lead in the UK.

Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 11/02/2019 at 16:25 #115591
GeoffM
Avatar
4503 posts
pedroathome in post 115571 said:
ajax103 in post 115569 said:
Got to ask but what's the difference between Route Miles and Track Miles?


My understanding is that Route Miles is the distance between 2 points, for example, Stockport is 5 miles from Slade Lane junction to Chedle Hulme, but, in track miles that would be approximately 20. 4 lines for most of the way, plus the extra "loops" at Stockport
Route is a single line between two locations; track mileage would be double the route mileage if double tracked; 4x if a 4-track line, for example. I doubt simple crossovers are included, but loops probably are.

SimSig Boss
Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 11/02/2019 at 16:27 #115592
GeoffM
Avatar
4503 posts
clive in post 115550 said:
The very simple script I generated this on just adds up the lengths of the track circuits; where there's more than one path through the TC, it takes the longest one. So crossovers will probably be excluded in most cases.

Numbers are metres and miles:

10130 6.294 Chicago Loop
18972 11.788 Llangollen
31126 19.340 Lancing
40643 25.254 Liverpool St
42425 26.361 Royston
50266 31.233 Portsmouth
[...]
545645 339.048 Peterborough
549858 341.666 Nescot
570352 354.400 YorkNS
633513 393.647 Motherwell
657260 408.402 Marylebone
956363 594.256 Moss Vale
Marylebone might be slightly misleading as the LUL section is duplicated - a simple two-track railway for non-LUL mode, and the full 4-track (for a fair chunk of it) in LUL mode.

SimSig Boss
Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 11/02/2019 at 20:18 #115629
clive
Avatar
1933 posts
Yes, I don't know if there's an official definition of what's included in "track miles".

As I said, I add up the longest path through each track circuit. Where part of a layout is duplicated (or more) because of eras, that will inflate the figures. Loops will be included, but only the part that's separately track circuited. Assuming the loop turnout and the main line have the IBJs level, the turnout will be excluded. Similarly, crossovers will be left out because, in general, they are in the middle of a TC (note that SimSig doesn't record the position of points within a track circuit because it doesn't affect the signalling).

So these numbers need to be taken with a certain amount of salt. They were intended purely as a comparison.

Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 11/02/2019 at 20:43 #115635
GeoffM
Avatar
4503 posts
clive in post 115629 said:
Yes, I don't know if there's an official definition of what's included in "track miles".

As I said, I add up the longest path through each track circuit. Where part of a layout is duplicated (or more) because of eras, that will inflate the figures. Loops will be included, but only the part that's separately track circuited. Assuming the loop turnout and the main line have the IBJs level, the turnout will be excluded. Similarly, crossovers will be left out because, in general, they are in the middle of a TC (note that SimSig doesn't record the position of points within a track circuit because it doesn't affect the signalling).

So these numbers need to be taken with a certain amount of salt. They were intended purely as a comparison.
Oh, indeed. I was just surprised to see Marylebone up there and the LUL section is a fair chunk of it - but probably the biggest alternative chunks of any sim.

SimSig Boss
Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 11/02/2019 at 21:51 #115636
madaboutrains
Avatar
250 posts
GeoffM in post 115592 said:
clive in post 115550 said:
The very simple script I generated this on just adds up the lengths of the track circuits; where there's more than one path through the TC, it takes the longest one. So crossovers will probably be excluded in most cases.

Numbers are metres and miles:

10130 6.294 Chicago Loop
18972 11.788 Llangollen
31126 19.340 Lancing
40643 25.254 Liverpool St
42425 26.361 Royston
50266 31.233 Portsmouth
[...]
545645 339.048 Peterborough
549858 341.666 Nescot
570352 354.400 YorkNS
633513 393.647 Motherwell
657260 408.402 Marylebone
956363 594.256 Moss Vale
Marylebone might be slightly misleading as the LUL section is duplicated - a simple two-track railway for non-LUL mode, and the full 4-track (for a fair chunk of it) in LUL mode.
Does this figure count for the the track that is not visible? ie. Between mandatory timing points {Entry Points}?

Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 12/02/2019 at 00:38 #115645
JamesN
Avatar
1091 posts
Online
madaboutrains in post 115636 said:
GeoffM in post 115592 said:
clive in post 115550 said:
The very simple script I generated this on just adds up the lengths of the track circuits; where there's more than one path through the TC, it takes the longest one. So crossovers will probably be excluded in most cases.

Numbers are metres and miles:

10130 6.294 Chicago Loop
18972 11.788 Llangollen
31126 19.340 Lancing
40643 25.254 Liverpool St
42425 26.361 Royston
50266 31.233 Portsmouth
[...]
545645 339.048 Peterborough
549858 341.666 Nescot
570352 354.400 YorkNS
633513 393.647 Motherwell
657260 408.402 Marylebone
956363 594.256 Moss Vale
Marylebone might be slightly misleading as the LUL section is duplicated - a simple two-track railway for non-LUL mode, and the full 4-track (for a fair chunk of it) in LUL mode.
Does this figure count for the the track that is not visible? ie. Between mandatory timing points {Entry Points}?
Yes, deducing how Clive has arrived at those values it will account for all track within the simulation file; whether it is controlled by the user or not; and whether it is track circuited or not.

Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 12/02/2019 at 11:26 #115648
Sparky
Avatar
62 posts
The Moss Vale figure will be a bit short after I found about 20km's of track missing when I was doing an audit on the tracks checking ready for the final version. I still have a bit more to do so there may well be more.
I intend to live forever. So far so good
Log in to reply
Sim with the most track miles? 12/02/2019 at 13:36 #115650
clive
Avatar
1933 posts
JamesN in post 115645 said:

Yes, deducing how Clive has arrived at those values it will account for all track within the simulation file; whether it is controlled by the user or not; and whether it is track circuited or not.
Correct. As James has no doubt deduced, I'm simply scanning the simulation data for all track circuits.

Last edited: 12/02/2019 at 13:37 by clive
Reason: None given

Log in to reply