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Passenger trains and GPLs

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Passenger trains and GPLs 21/03/2019 at 19:09 #116499
trolleybus
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I'd always understood that passenger trains could not normally be signalled by GPLs. Clearly this isn't a hard rule, as arrangements can be made during disruption, but it normally stands.

The last CrossCountry into Stansted Airport in the evening and the first one out in the morning reverse in Stansted Mountfitchet at signal 5397, a GPL. Is this as unusual as I think?

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Passenger trains and GPLs 21/03/2019 at 19:15 #116501
KymriskaDraken
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trolleybus in post 116499 said:
I'd always understood that passenger trains could not normally be signalled by GPLs. Clearly this isn't a hard rule, as arrangements can be made during disruption, but it normally stands.

The last CrossCountry into Stansted Airport in the evening and the first one out in the morning reverse in Stansted Mountfitchet at signal 5397, a GPL. Is this as unusual as I think?
I would guess that it's relatively rare. Of course signal box "footnotes" can rewrite Rules & Regulations to suit local conditions.

Kev

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Passenger trains and GPLs 21/03/2019 at 20:25 #116505
TUT
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Rule book module S7 Observing and obeying signalling indications Train warning systems Reporting signalling failures and irregularities regulation 3.1 states:

Quote:
3.1 Passenger train at a position-light or semaphore shunting signal

Unless authority is published or you are instructed to do so by the signaller or another person acting on the signaller's instructions, you must not proceed with a passenger train on the authority of:

• a semaphore shunting signal
• a position-light signal.

However, you may proceed with a passenger train on the authority of a position-light or semaphore subsidiary signal if you are entering a permissive platform line.
The phrase "unless authority is published" usually does quite a lot of work on the railways.

At Great Missenden, too, (Marylebone IECC) the crossover is signalled by GPLs and up trains starting back there will proceed on the authority of a GPL.

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Passenger trains and GPLs 22/03/2019 at 08:57 #116524
geswedey
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If a GPL or similar proves a route and is able to be cleared it is preferable to use this rather than authorising a passenger train to pass a signal at danger as well

Glyn

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Passenger trains and GPLs 22/03/2019 at 09:57 #116526
topbanana
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geswedey in post 116524 said:
If a GPL or similar proves a route and is able to be cleared it is preferable to use this rather than authorising a passenger train to pass a signal at danger as well

Glyn
I have done this myself on quite a few occasions instead of talking past... I have also started passenger services from GPL's when terminating short.

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Passenger trains and GPLs 22/03/2019 at 12:12 #116537
madaboutrains
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I have had a look out of curiosity at starting Passenger trains of a Ground position light and I found this phase in WON/CPPP for blocks that require this particular move:

Quote:
AT [LOCATION] DOWN TRAINS ARE AUTHORISED TO TERMINATE AND START BACK AS UP TRAINS FROM THE DOWN PLATFORM LINE. A HANDSIGNALLER WILL NOT BE PROVIDED AND DRIVERS ARE AUTHORISED
TO DEPART ON THE AUTHORITY OF POSITION LIGHT SHUNT SIGNAL [SIGNAL NUMBER].
As a planner we have to take care to note when and when not we are permitted to do this. But usually its marked with the above note giving a indication that its been allowed.

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Passenger trains and GPLs 22/03/2019 at 14:06 #116546
Giantray
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Elmers End station on the Mid Kent lines (under London Bridge ASC) used to have a GPL on the London End of the down Platform before a main signal was positioned there. There was an instruction in the Sectional Appendix that allowed passgener trains to start in the up direction under authority of the GPL.
Professional Railwayman since 1981. Railway Historian (SER, LCDR)
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Passenger trains and GPLs 23/03/2019 at 23:16 #116602
TomOF
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In the post-Hatfield world when seemingly half the countries routes would be closed at weekends, what would normally be the Cleethorpes - Manchester Airport would terminate at Scunthorpe. On a couple of occasions it ran into the platform without opening the doors then reversed via the GPLs at the Barnetby end before letting us off onto the waiting bus transport.

Later on I used to commute on the last down St Pancras - Derby which would go via chellaston after Nottingham and then reverse via the GPL at Stenson. This was pretty much every night so must have been allowed.

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Passenger trains and GPLs 24/03/2019 at 08:45 #116609
ajax103
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I've dispatched passenger trains past GPLs before using flag and bat but that was only due to engineering works.
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Passenger trains and GPLs 24/03/2019 at 09:58 #116610
VInce
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Hiya,

The Stenson thing comes under the heading of it being authorised when published in the engineering and special operating notices since it was as a result of an engineering blockage between Sheet Stores Jcn and Derby.

Vince

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Passenger trains and GPLs 24/03/2019 at 13:04 #116612
bill_gensheet
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Is there a subtle differentiation between:

'you must not proceed'
and
'TO TERMINATE AND START BACK '


Suggests a slightly different approach to a reversal 'out in a field' compared to a passenger call / departure,
or is it just the latter is the instruction satisfying the former ?

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Passenger trains and GPLs 25/03/2019 at 07:43 #116663
clive
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I remember once some disruption on the ECML and I was trying to get from Huntingdon to London. We were all told to go over to platform 3 and board the train there. It then ran forward on to the Down Fast (normal green with feather), then reversed direction and headed for London along the Up Fast, meaning we must have reversed under the authority of a GPL.

I've also heard of trains being terminated at Sandy and departing south in passenger use during engineering works; another GPL move. That GPL is even mounted on a post at the end of the platform, not on the ground.

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Passenger trains and GPLs 25/03/2019 at 18:26 #116735
Hap
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Few places up here where we can start on a PLS in passenger service.
The two that instantly come to mind are:

Kirkcaldy UP platform heading in the DN direction.
Holytown DN platform heading in the UP direction.

Haymarket platform 3 in the DN direction is NOT permitted to start a passenger train in passenger service.

It's laid out in the Sectional Appendix where local conditions apply for such movements.

I'm pretty sure that any other facing road movements where a PLS/GPS is involved further away from the station requires pilotman working. (open for correction on that one)

HAP
Last edited: 25/03/2019 at 18:27 by Hap
Reason: None given

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Passenger trains and GPLs 25/03/2019 at 19:47 #116744
Giantray
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There is also the case during Single Line working where GPLs are used to signal passenger trains. I have been on several trains out KGX that used GPLs at station platforms to shunt over and enter/leave single lines.
Professional Railwayman since 1981. Railway Historian (SER, LCDR)
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Passenger trains and GPLs 25/03/2019 at 20:58 #116751
Edgemaster
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The manual for the upcoming Sandhills sim includes a number of GPL moves that are permitted for departure from stations when services are disrupted.
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