Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded

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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 15/04/2019 at 20:03 #117616
headshot119
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Definitely going into York ROC. I suspect it'll all go live with the move, I can't see money being spent modifying the panel
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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 15/04/2019 at 20:34 #117620
mfcooper
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jc92 in post 117614 said:
Last I heard TB was taking the southern ECML as part of Thames link. Nonetheless my question still stands.
There was once a proposal that some of the London-end of Kings Cross PSB would eventually be recontrolled/resignalled into Three Bridges ROC, but that has not been the plan for a number of years now.

All of KXPSB is going to York ROC.

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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 16/04/2019 at 09:13 #117627
kbarber
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mfcooper in post 117620 said:
jc92 in post 117614 said:
Last I heard TB was taking the southern ECML as part of Thames link. Nonetheless my question still stands.
There was once a proposal that some of the London-end of Kings Cross PSB would eventually be recontrolled/resignalled into Three Bridges ROC, but that has not been the plan for a number of years now.

All of KXPSB is going to York ROC.
I wonder, modern IT being what it is, if TB will have screens on their video wall to mimic what York is controlling (rather as Rugby has screens showing Euston/Willesden/Watford)?

If that sort of thing had been possible in my day, we'd have thought we'd died & gone to heaven.

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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 16/04/2019 at 16:55 #117636
GeoffM
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kbarber in post 117627 said:
mfcooper in post 117620 said:
jc92 in post 117614 said:
Last I heard TB was taking the southern ECML as part of Thames link. Nonetheless my question still stands.
There was once a proposal that some of the London-end of Kings Cross PSB would eventually be recontrolled/resignalled into Three Bridges ROC, but that has not been the plan for a number of years now.

All of KXPSB is going to York ROC.
I wonder, modern IT being what it is, if TB will have screens on their video wall to mimic what York is controlling (rather as Rugby has screens showing Euston/Willesden/Watford)?

If that sort of thing had been possible in my day, we'd have thought we'd died & gone to heaven.
The video walls (whether of their own area or adjacent areas) always seems to be the first casualty of the budget - or perhaps managers saying "nah, we don't need that." Upminster was supposed to get them, Edinburgh was supposed to get them (not sure if they did in the end), at least a couple of other places too. Rugby had to switch out the Barco displays due to reliability issues, leaving smaller, regular screens haphazardly placed in front of the decommissioned Barco video wall...

I guess the TMIS and equivalent screens on the signallers' desks are cheaper and more flexible.

SimSig Boss
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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 16/04/2019 at 20:55 #117646
clive
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THIS is how the Aussies do it.
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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 16/04/2019 at 20:58 #117647
Meld
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clive in post 117646 said:
THIS is how the Aussies do it.
They just need the staff now

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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 17/04/2019 at 16:37 #117672
ajax103
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GeoffM in post 117636 said:
kbarber in post 117627 said:
mfcooper in post 117620 said:
jc92 in post 117614 said:
Last I heard TB was taking the southern ECML as part of Thames link. Nonetheless my question still stands.
There was once a proposal that some of the London-end of Kings Cross PSB would eventually be recontrolled/resignalled into Three Bridges ROC, but that has not been the plan for a number of years now.

All of KXPSB is going to York ROC.
I wonder, modern IT being what it is, if TB will have screens on their video wall to mimic what York is controlling (rather as Rugby has screens showing Euston/Willesden/Watford)?

If that sort of thing had been possible in my day, we'd have thought we'd died & gone to heaven.
The video walls (whether of their own area or adjacent areas) always seems to be the first casualty of the budget - or perhaps managers saying "nah, we don't need that." Upminster was supposed to get them, Edinburgh was supposed to get them (not sure if they did in the end), at least a couple of other places too. Rugby had to switch out the Barco displays due to reliability issues, leaving smaller, regular screens haphazardly placed in front of the decommissioned Barco video wall...

I guess the TMIS and equivalent screens on the signallers' desks are cheaper and more flexible.
Is this not a Barco display?

https://photos.signalling.org/picture?/20405/category/2138-2008_july

I can see it being useful to see what's going on at the fringes of any signalbox.

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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 17/04/2019 at 16:45 #117674
headshot119
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No that's a Westinghouse Train Describer.
"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 17/04/2019 at 17:04 #117675
GeoffM
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ajax103 in post 117672 said:
GeoffM in post 117636 said:
kbarber in post 117627 said:
mfcooper in post 117620 said:
jc92 in post 117614 said:
Last I heard TB was taking the southern ECML as part of Thames link. Nonetheless my question still stands.
There was once a proposal that some of the London-end of Kings Cross PSB would eventually be recontrolled/resignalled into Three Bridges ROC, but that has not been the plan for a number of years now.

All of KXPSB is going to York ROC.
I wonder, modern IT being what it is, if TB will have screens on their video wall to mimic what York is controlling (rather as Rugby has screens showing Euston/Willesden/Watford)?

If that sort of thing had been possible in my day, we'd have thought we'd died & gone to heaven.
The video walls (whether of their own area or adjacent areas) always seems to be the first casualty of the budget - or perhaps managers saying "nah, we don't need that." Upminster was supposed to get them, Edinburgh was supposed to get them (not sure if they did in the end), at least a couple of other places too. Rugby had to switch out the Barco displays due to reliability issues, leaving smaller, regular screens haphazardly placed in front of the decommissioned Barco video wall...

I guess the TMIS and equivalent screens on the signallers' desks are cheaper and more flexible.
Is this not a Barco display?

https://photos.signalling.org/picture?/20405/category/2138-2008_july

I can see it being useful to see what's going on at the fringes of any signalbox.
Rugby's Barco displays were rear projection video wall screens. Unfortunately I can't find any decent pictures but the below does show the replacement screens in front of the old Barco displays - and these newer screens appear to have been straightened up since I was last there, perhaps with rear bracing linking them together or something.

https://www.planitplus.net/JobProfileImages/848.jpg

SimSig Boss
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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 18/04/2019 at 18:48 #117696
baitboy2004
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The whole thing regarding Thameslink is that ALL the services currently operated by Great Northern (not including Moorgate services I think) are to be rerouted through the TL core (St. Pan. - Blackfriars) and that no-more trains operated by GTR currently will serve KGX. A video linked here will show you what I mean by "no-more trains operated by GTR will serve KGX". Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvvkkHywrhE
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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 18/04/2019 at 19:37 #117697
Giantray
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GeoffM in post 117636 said:
kbarber in post 117627 said:
mfcooper in post 117620 said:
jc92 in post 117614 said:
Last I heard TB was taking the southern ECML as part of Thames link. Nonetheless my question still stands.
There was once a proposal that some of the London-end of Kings Cross PSB would eventually be recontrolled/resignalled into Three Bridges ROC, but that has not been the plan for a number of years now.

All of KXPSB is going to York ROC.
I wonder, modern IT being what it is, if TB will have screens on their video wall to mimic what York is controlling (rather as Rugby has screens showing Euston/Willesden/Watford)?

If that sort of thing had been possible in my day, we'd have thought we'd died & gone to heaven.
The video walls (whether of their own area or adjacent areas) always seems to be the first casualty of the budget - or perhaps managers saying "nah, we don't need that." Upminster was supposed to get them, Edinburgh was supposed to get them (not sure if they did in the end), at least a couple of other places too. Rugby had to switch out the Barco displays due to reliability issues, leaving smaller, regular screens haphazardly placed in front of the decommissioned Barco video wall...

I guess the TMIS and equivalent screens on the signallers' desks are cheaper and more flexible.
I have to sit back and laugh. I worked London Bridge ASC for 25 years, we had a overview mimic of everything the box controlled and we could see what each other was doing and could react quickly diverting trains around problems. I am now at TBROC working the same areas as at London Bridge ASC, but there is no mimic, overview or video wall. In fact there is no overall map, image, screens whatsoever of the area controlled. Makes things extremely difficult to work out what is available during faults and failures or for seeing which lines are blocked for Engineers Possessions. There is no ARS and workstations, they are basically electronic NX workstations and are not next to each other logically. Example, Charing Cross Workstation is between London Bridge 3b( New Cross Gate to Anerley/North Dulwich) and with Core Central (Farringdon - St Pancras) workstations, the two workstations that Charing Cross Workstation has no connection nor shares trains with. Cannon Street, Lewisham and Grove Park Workstations are in the opposite corner with the SSMs inbetween. As Geoff says, economics and " You don't need that" certainly applies at TBROC, although I think they may be at last seeing the errors of their ways. London Bridge ASC was a 1970s Westinghouse Designed box that had the end user in mind. TBROC, is designed for ARS which has never materialised. We basicaly have seven individual workstations in there own "Signal Boxes" on the same operating floor where you have to use a telephone to converse with other workstations or leave your workstation to walk to another to talk to the Signallers. As for TMIS, because the London Bridge Area is a very small but complex area, Signallers need to see track circuit occupation to judge train speeds to regulate trains efficiently, a Train digit alone does not tell a signaller where a train is exactly, or its speed, or if it is moving.

The idea of the Thameslink Programe was to have all the core Thameslink route in one ROC, hence why the southern half of Kings Cross PSB and West Hampstead PSB were planned to migrate to TBROC. St Pancras from West Hampstead is in TBROC but the rest of West Hampstead is now going to East Midlands ROC. But as with all projects, others get other ideas and original plans never really come to full frutition. As regards TBROC, the end users were not thought about.

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Last edited: 18/04/2019 at 19:39 by Giantray
Reason: None given

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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 18/04/2019 at 21:11 #117700
baitboy2004
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Should KX become payware, what will happen to those who already own KX as a free sim like me?
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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 18/04/2019 at 22:06 #117702
Peter Bennet
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baitboy2004 in post 117696 said:
The whole thing regarding Thameslink is that ALL the services currently operated by Great Northern (not including Moorgate services I think) are to be rerouted through the TL core (St. Pan. - Blackfriars) and that no-more trains operated by GTR currently will serve KGX. A video linked here will show you what I mean by "no-more trains operated by GTR will serve KGX". Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvvkkHywrhE
I think the video is slightly misleading, the trains referred too that currently go to Kings Cross are Thameslink branded and operated by 700 units. It is they that are going through the core eventually. What the video does not cover are the GN branded trains which are the 387, 365 and 717 operated services. The 717s, as you say generally going to MOG, and the 387 and the 365s operating Kings Lynn and the Peterborough peak trains.

Peter

One of the great problems of our age is that we are governed by people who care more about feelings than they do about thoughts and ideas.
Last edited: 18/04/2019 at 23:10 by Peter Bennet
Reason: Typo

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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 18/04/2019 at 22:25 #117704
jc92
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baitboy2004 in post 117700 said:
Should KX become payware, what will happen to those who already own KX as a free sim like me?
Based on previous precedents like Edinburgh, you would still be able to operate the sim but it would be the current version with no further upgrades/support/fixes.

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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 18/04/2019 at 22:38 #117705
baitboy2004
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So, is KGX been remade?
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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 18/04/2019 at 22:38 #117706
northroad
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Peter Bennet in post 117702 said:
baitboy2004 in post 117696 said:
The whole thing regarding Thameslink is that ALL the services currently operated by Great Northern (not including Moorgate services I think) are to be rerouted through the TL core (St. Pan. - Blackfriars) and that no-more trains operated by GTR currently will serve KGX. A video linked here will show you what I mean by "no-more trains operated by GTR will serve KGX". Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvvkkHywrhE
I think the video is slightly misleading, the trains referred too that currently go to Kings Cross are Thameslink branded and operated by 700 units. It is they that are going through the core eventually. What the video does not cover are the GN branded trains which are the 376, 365 and 717 operated services. The 717s, as you say generally going to MOG, and the 376 and the 365s operating Kings Lynn and the Peterborough peak trains.

Peter
I thought it was Class 387’s that were alongside the 365’s.

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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 18/04/2019 at 22:39 #117707
pedroathome
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jc92 in post 117704 said:
baitboy2004 in post 117700 said:
Should KX become payware, what will happen to those who already own KX as a free sim like me?
Based on previous precedents like Edinburgh, you would still be able to operate the sim but it would be the current version with no further upgrades/support/fixes.
Remember, as with all Software products, you do not own the product, but instead own a licence which allows you to use the software.

(The controversial bit) The fact that Kings Cross is currently free (Well, donationware) does not rule things out in the future changing

James

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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 18/04/2019 at 22:47 #117708
postal
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baitboy2004 in post 117705 said:
So, is KGX been remade?
If it is, everyone will find out when the developer is ready to release it. Any speculation until then is just hot air.

"If you can find something everyone agrees on, it's wrong." - Morris King Udall (15/06/1922 – 12/12/1998), American politician.
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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 19/04/2019 at 08:32 #117713
Giantray
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northroad in post 117706 said:
Peter Bennet in post 117702 said:
baitboy2004 in post 117696 said:
The whole thing regarding Thameslink is that ALL the services currently operated by Great Northern (not including Moorgate services I think) are to be rerouted through the TL core (St. Pan. - Blackfriars) and that no-more trains operated by GTR currently will serve KGX. A video linked here will show you what I mean by "no-more trains operated by GTR will serve KGX". Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvvkkHywrhE
I think the video is slightly misleading, the trains referred too that currently go to Kings Cross are Thameslink branded and operated by 700 units. It is they that are going through the core eventually. What the video does not cover are the GN branded trains which are the 376, 365 and 717 operated services. The 717s, as you say generally going to MOG, and the 376 and the 365s operating Kings Lynn and the Peterborough peak trains.

Peter
I thought it was Class 387’s that were alongside the 365’s.
Kings Lynn was removed as being part of the Thameslink TOC because of its distance from London,the fact that 700s aren't permitted beyond Ely and also it would mean unnecessary Platform lengthening to accommodate 12 car 700s. There would be no 8 car 700s available as these are required for Sutton/Wimbledon and Luton-Medway Towns services. Thus Kings Lynn will be part of Great Northern TOC, but could possibly be transferred to another TOC Franchise, if the Franchise process remains with us. As for the Peterborough "Peak" services, I would suspect they would come under Thameslink at some point, but as to whether they carry on into Kings Cross is unknown. Once ECTS (presently available but unused through lack of trained drivers and 700 units actually switched on to use ECTS) is finally used in the core section through London, there will be provision of 32 pathways an hour each direction, so there is availability for some additional trains to pass through the core section at peak times.

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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 19/04/2019 at 09:21 #117716
Peter Bennet
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Giantray in post 117713 said:

Kings Lynn was removed as being part of the Thameslink TOC because of its distance from London,the fact that 700s aren't permitted beyond Ely and also it would mean unnecessary Platform lengthening to accommodate 12 car 700s. There would be no 8 car 700s available as these are required for Sutton/Wimbledon and Luton-Medway Towns services. Thus Kings Lynn will be part of Great Northern TOC, but could possibly be transferred to another TOC Franchise, if the Franchise process remains with us. As for the Peterborough "Peak" services, I would suspect they would come under Thameslink at some point, but as to whether they carry on into Kings Cross is unknown. Once ECTS (presently available but unused through lack of trained drivers and 700 units actually switched on to use ECTS) is finally used in the core section through London, there will be provision of 32 pathways an hour each direction, so there is availability for some additional trains to pass through the core section at peak times.
Just a pedantic but important point, Thameslink and Great Northern (as well as Southern and Gatwick Express) are simply trading brand names of the single TOC GoVia Thameslink Railway. This distinction creates an interesting question over the interaction of the Conditions of Travel which relates to TOCS and not trading names used by them, and tickets marked "Thameslink only" or "GatEx only" as the parallel routes are operated by the same TOC under a different brand. But I digress.

Peter

One of the great problems of our age is that we are governed by people who care more about feelings than they do about thoughts and ideas.
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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 21/04/2019 at 21:35 #117786
baitboy2004
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Giantray in post 117713 said:
northroad in post 117706 said:
Peter Bennet in post 117702 said:
baitboy2004 in post 117696 said:
The whole thing regarding Thameslink is that ALL the services currently operated by Great Northern (not including Moorgate services I think) are to be rerouted through the TL core (St. Pan. - Blackfriars) and that no-more trains operated by GTR currently will serve KGX. A video linked here will show you what I mean by "no-more trains operated by GTR will serve KGX". Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvvkkHywrhE
I think the video is slightly misleading, the trains referred too that currently go to Kings Cross are Thameslink branded and operated by 700 units. It is they that are going through the core eventually. What the video does not cover are the GN branded trains which are the 376, 365 and 717 operated services. The 717s, as you say generally going to MOG, and the 376 and the 365s operating Kings Lynn and the Peterborough peak trains.

Peter
I thought it was Class 387’s that were alongside the 365’s.
Kings Lynn was removed as being part of the Thameslink TOC because of its distance from London, the fact that 700s aren't permitted beyond Ely and also it would mean unnecessary Platform lengthening to accommodate 12 car 700s. There would be no 8 car 700s available as these are required for Sutton/Wimbledon and Luton-Medway Towns services. Thus Kings Lynn will be part of Great Northern TOC, but could possibly be transferred to another TOC Franchise, if the Franchise process remains with us. As for the Peterborough "Peak" services, I would suspect they would come under Thameslink at some point, but as to whether they carry on into Kings Cross is unknown. Once ECTS (presently available but unused through lack of trained drivers and 700 units actually switched on to use ECTS) is finally used in the core section through London, there will be provision of 32 pathways an hour each direction, so there is availability for some additional trains to pass through the core section at peak times.
However, do remember that Class 707s coming off lease from SWR when the Class 701s enter service, which could mean that Thameslink could introduce those to run the Kings Lynn services as opposed to the stressful and money costing platform extensions which are going to be needed should 12 car 700s be passed to run to Kings Lynn.

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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 24/04/2019 at 17:08 #117816
GW43125
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baitboy2004 in post 117786 said:
Giantray in post 117713 said:
northroad in post 117706 said:
Peter Bennet in post 117702 said:
baitboy2004 in post 117696 said:
The whole thing regarding Thameslink is that ALL the services currently operated by Great Northern (not including Moorgate services I think) are to be rerouted through the TL core (St. Pan. - Blackfriars) and that no-more trains operated by GTR currently will serve KGX. A video linked here will show you what I mean by "no-more trains operated by GTR will serve KGX". Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvvkkHywrhE
I think the video is slightly misleading, the trains referred too that currently go to Kings Cross are Thameslink branded and operated by 700 units. It is they that are going through the core eventually. What the video does not cover are the GN branded trains which are the 376, 365 and 717 operated services. The 717s, as you say generally going to MOG, and the 376 and the 365s operating Kings Lynn and the Peterborough peak trains.

Peter
I thought it was Class 387’s that were alongside the 365’s.
Kings Lynn was removed as being part of the Thameslink TOC because of its distance from London, the fact that 700s aren't permitted beyond Ely and also it would mean unnecessary Platform lengthening to accommodate 12 car 700s. There would be no 8 car 700s available as these are required for Sutton/Wimbledon and Luton-Medway Towns services. Thus Kings Lynn will be part of Great Northern TOC, but could possibly be transferred to another TOC Franchise, if the Franchise process remains with us. As for the Peterborough "Peak" services, I would suspect they would come under Thameslink at some point, but as to whether they carry on into Kings Cross is unknown. Once ECTS (presently available but unused through lack of trained drivers and 700 units actually switched on to use ECTS) is finally used in the core section through London, there will be provision of 32 pathways an hour each direction, so there is availability for some additional trains to pass through the core section at peak times.
However, do remember that Class 707s coming off lease from SWR when the Class 701s enter service, which could mean that Thameslink could introduce those to run the Kings Lynn services as opposed to the stressful and money costing platform extensions which are going to be needed should 12 car 700s be passed to run to Kings Lynn.
I highly doubt the 707s will go to TL. There's speculation of them going elsewhere but they have a worse power-to-weight ratio than the 700s, to the point at which a loaded test run with a motor isolated failed to make it up the bank through the canal tunnels!

Would 707s not have the same power issue as a 700? In such that sending one north of Ely causes the power supply to trip out.

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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 24/04/2019 at 17:56 #117817
Peter Bennet
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GW43125 in post 117816 said:
baitboy2004 in post 117786 said:
Giantray in post 117713 said:
northroad in post 117706 said:
Peter Bennet in post 117702 said:
baitboy2004 in post 117696 said:
The whole thing regarding Thameslink is that ALL the services currently operated by Great Northern (not including Moorgate services I think) are to be rerouted through the TL core (St. Pan. - Blackfriars) and that no-more trains operated by GTR currently will serve KGX. A video linked here will show you what I mean by "no-more trains operated by GTR will serve KGX". Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvvkkHywrhE
I think the video is slightly misleading, the trains referred too that currently go to Kings Cross are Thameslink branded and operated by 700 units. It is they that are going through the core eventually. What the video does not cover are the GN branded trains which are the 376, 365 and 717 operated services. The 717s, as you say generally going to MOG, and the 376 and the 365s operating Kings Lynn and the Peterborough peak trains.

Peter
I thought it was Class 387’s that were alongside the 365’s.
Kings Lynn was removed as being part of the Thameslink TOC because of its distance from London, the fact that 700s aren't permitted beyond Ely and also it would mean unnecessary Platform lengthening to accommodate 12 car 700s. There would be no 8 car 700s available as these are required for Sutton/Wimbledon and Luton-Medway Towns services. Thus Kings Lynn will be part of Great Northern TOC, but could possibly be transferred to another TOC Franchise, if the Franchise process remains with us. As for the Peterborough "Peak" services, I would suspect they would come under Thameslink at some point, but as to whether they carry on into Kings Cross is unknown. Once ECTS (presently available but unused through lack of trained drivers and 700 units actually switched on to use ECTS) is finally used in the core section through London, there will be provision of 32 pathways an hour each direction, so there is availability for some additional trains to pass through the core section at peak times.
However, do remember that Class 707s coming off lease from SWR when the Class 701s enter service, which could mean that Thameslink could introduce those to run the Kings Lynn services as opposed to the stressful and money costing platform extensions which are going to be needed should 12 car 700s be passed to run to Kings Lynn.
I highly doubt the 707s will go to TL. There's speculation of them going elsewhere but they have a worse power-to-weight ratio than the 700s, to the point at which a loaded test run with a motor isolated failed to make it up the bank through the canal tunnels!

Would 707s not have the same power issue as a 700? In such that sending one north of Ely causes the power supply to trip out.
Does a 5 car 707 require more juice than a pair of 387s?

Peter

One of the great problems of our age is that we are governed by people who care more about feelings than they do about thoughts and ideas.
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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 26/04/2019 at 20:59 #117859
baitboy2004
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But could NR upgrade the power supply on the OHLE north of Ely for the class 700s to allow for operation to Kings Lynn to happen?
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Kings Cross summer 2019 timetable uploaded 26/04/2019 at 21:39 #117862
Peter Bennet
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baitboy2004 in post 117859 said:
But could NR upgrade the power supply on the OHLE north of Ely for the class 700s to allow for operation to Kings Lynn to happen?
Yes.

Peter

One of the great problems of our age is that we are governed by people who care more about feelings than they do about thoughts and ideas.
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