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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015

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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015 09/05/2019 at 20:46 #118179
headshot119
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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015

This thread is for discussion of the Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015 timetable.

"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015 18/05/2019 at 23:49 #118371
Phil-jmw
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Running the 2015 TT starting at 0000hrs, 2S01 0606 Hunts Cross - Southport enters at Liverpool South Parkway while its forming unit 5S01 is still at Moorfields in a queue behind late-running weedkiller 3S07.
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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015 19/05/2019 at 14:40 #118377
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Phil-jmw I've noted that down to discuss with the timetable writer. We did take a conscious decision not to rule up services towards Hunts Cross given how the service recovery works in real life during disruption. Though this ECS may be a bit of an edge case to that.

Hope you're enjoying the sim so far.

"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015 19/05/2019 at 14:58 #118378
postal
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headshot119 in post 118377 said:
Phil-jmw I've noted that down to discuss with the timetable writer. We did take a conscious decision not to rule up services towards Hunts Cross given how the service recovery works in real life during disruption. Though this ECS may be a bit of an edge case to that.

Hope you're enjoying the sim so far.
John did apply a rule to 5C01/2C01 to stop premature re-entry after it was raised in testing.

"You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it." - Malcolm X (19/05/1925 – 21/02/1965) American Muslim minister and human rights activist.
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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015 19/05/2019 at 15:00 #118379
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postal in post 118378 said:
headshot119 in post 118377 said:
Phil-jmw I've noted that down to discuss with the timetable writer. We did take a conscious decision not to rule up services towards Hunts Cross given how the service recovery works in real life during disruption. Though this ECS may be a bit of an edge case to that.

Hope you're enjoying the sim so far.
John did apply a rule to 5C01/2C01 to stop premature re-entry after it was raised in testing.
From memory I think 5C01 terminates at Hooton, and comes back as 2C01, rather than going all the way (to Chester) so to speak. But yes it did get a rule applied.

"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015 19/05/2019 at 15:22 #118380
postal
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headshot119 in post 118379 said:
From memory I think 5C01 terminates at Hooton, and comes back as 2C01, rather than going all the way (to Chester) so to speak.
Correct.

"You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it." - Malcolm X (19/05/1925 – 21/02/1965) American Muslim minister and human rights activist.
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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015 19/05/2019 at 16:53 #118382
Phil-jmw
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headshot119 in post 118377 said:
Phil-jmw I've noted that down to discuss with the timetable writer. We did take a conscious decision not to rule up services towards Hunts Cross given how the service recovery works in real life during disruption. Though this ECS may be a bit of an edge case to that.

Hope you're enjoying the sim so far.
It's a cracking sim Karl, of an area I used to know very well when it was mechanically signalled, especially the Northern lines, and the Southport line in particular. I'm currently up to 0750 with a few delays added and it's an 'interesting' morning peak, meaning I've had to step one or two services and units up. You mentioned service recovery, as a matter of interest if things start to go awry in the peaks in real life do they implement service recovery then or ride it out until after the peaks to avoid overcrowding?

You really do have to watch those weedkiller/sandite schedules or you'll be in trouble. Thanks again for a cracking sim.


Regards,

Phil.

Last edited: 19/05/2019 at 17:06 by Phil-jmw
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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015 19/05/2019 at 17:52 #118383
Jan
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headshot119 in post 118377 said:
Phil-jmwWe did take a conscious decision not to rule up services towards Hunts Cross given how the service recovery works in real life during disruption.

Out of interest, how does it work? Terminating early at South Parkway?

Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015 19/05/2019 at 18:00 #118384
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I'll try and write up something more comprehensive. But generally speaking running fast to Hunts Cross from Liverpool Central or vice versa is popular. In significant disruption turn backs at Liverpool South Parkway aren't uncommon. Stepping up of services aren't uncommon either.

With a 15 minute headway, if the first train is 10 - 14 down, people aren't that inconvenienced by waiting for the one behind.

"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
Last edited: 19/05/2019 at 18:01 by headshot119
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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015 27/05/2019 at 20:53 #118491
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headshot119 in post 118377 said:
Phil-jmw I've noted that down to discuss with the timetable writer. We did take a conscious decision not to rule up services towards Hunts Cross given how the service recovery works in real life during disruption. Though this ECS may be a bit of an edge case to that.

Hope you're enjoying the sim so far.
Been playing Sandhills for the first time today, definitely one of the best sims.

Personally I think there should be rules for Hunts Cross, Chester and Ellesmere Port services. I had a few late runners coming southwards to Hunts Cross, and it was frustrating to find the return services appeared on time even when nothing had gone south to make them up. I also reversed one service via the siding at Liverpool Central, and then ended up with a duplicate entering from Liverpool South Parkway which I had to remove. My understanding is there aren’t crew depots at these three outposts, so in reality I’d be surprised if there’s scope for doing much apart from non-stopping (which can be done via F2 presumably) or turning short.

I know late runners sometimes get turned at South Parkway or Hooton, so a simple rule just disallowing the next service entering until the outgoing has left the area would suffice.

Last edited: 27/05/2019 at 20:55 by DavidSplett
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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015 28/05/2019 at 01:40 #118496
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DavidSplett glad you are enjoying the sim.

Your idea of a simple rule without a time reference isn't one we'd added into the discussion, but we will now.

You're also correct about the crew depots, the main base for the Wirral is in Birkenhead.

"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
Last edited: 28/05/2019 at 01:41 by headshot119
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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015 28/05/2019 at 09:24 #118498
postal
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headshot119 in post 118496 said:
DavidSplett glad you are enjoying the sim.

Your idea of a simple rule without a time reference isn't one we'd added into the discussion, but we will now.

You're also correct about the crew depots, the main base for the Wirral is in Birkenhead.
Even for a turnback just off sim you would need time for the distance off sim and a change of ends so it would need a small time difference in the rule (say 5 min or something like that).

"You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it." - Malcolm X (19/05/1925 – 21/02/1965) American Muslim minister and human rights activist.
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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015 28/05/2019 at 09:49 #118500
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postal in post 118498 said:
headshot119 in post 118496 said:
DavidSplett glad you are enjoying the sim.

Your idea of a simple rule without a time reference isn't one we'd added into the discussion, but we will now.

You're also correct about the crew depots, the main base for the Wirral is in Birkenhead.
Even for a turnback just off sim you would need time for the distance off sim and a change of ends so it would need a small time difference in the rule (say 5 min or something like that).
That would probably be ideal. That’s roughly what I’ve done on the KX timetables with the services which terminate at Royston and it works well in practice.

I’d say a general rule of thumb should be that anything where it will likely be the same driver bringing the train back should have a rule.

On the Sandhills sim it would effectively make all trains captive, which I think would be more realistic.

On a related note, I’ve added some rules via F4 for my own use, however at the Hunts Cross end I can’t get them to have any effect. With unique IDs, what format should I be using in the rules box? I’ve tried just the reporting number and also “reporting number / unique ID”, however in neither case does it work.

Last edited: 28/05/2019 at 16:48 by DavidSplett
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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015 29/05/2019 at 19:59 #118535
Jan
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Rules referencing an UID need to be entered as $UID. The train ID field in the rules editor also works as a drop-down control, so you could also pick the (U)ID directly from that list.
Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015 01/06/2019 at 03:12 #118584
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Just to add that although timetable 1.1 will be on the update server by the time the UK wakes up, we are still debating what the best way to solve this is, and we don't want to rush into a hatchet job.
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Sandhills (Merseyrail) SX 08 04 2015 01/06/2019 at 08:44 #118593
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headshot119 in post 118584 said:
Just to add that although timetable 1.1 will be on the update server by the time the UK wakes up, we are still debating what the best way to solve this is, and we don't want to rush into a hatchet job.

Thanks for taking the time to look into it. I ruled up the timetable for my own use with a 5 minute rule between exit and entry, and now I’ve managed to get it to work it works quite well. No duplicates if stuff turned short, and reactionary delays occur more realistically.

I wonder if there might be scope for a new sim feature to take account of this situation, namely a rule which has a random variable window between a minimum and maximum number of minutes, the minimum being the shortest time a train could get out and back (ie turned short), and the maximum being the normal running time to and from booked destination. Something to think about. Would definitely prove useful in other sims, KX springs to mind.

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