2mph on the Penistone Single

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2mph on the Penistone Single 09/12/2019 at 16:02 #122180
Banners88
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Not sure if this is a TT issue or sim issue so stick it here for now.

Running the 2007 TT with poor adhesion option and no ARS.

Finding that if you hold trains at BY1039 they will not accelerate above 2mph causing problems, I've removed the last few trains to help keep the sim running realistically.

Any ideas?

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2mph on the Penistone Single 09/12/2019 at 16:24 #122182
jc92
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Banners88 in post 122180 said:
Not sure if this is a TT issue or sim issue so stick it here for now.

Running the 2007 TT with poor adhesion option and no ARS.

Finding that if you hold trains at BY1039 they will not accelerate above 2mph causing problems, I've removed the last few trains to help keep the sim running realistically.

Any ideas?
Sounds like the way the core code is handling the gradient. Barnsley - Huddersfield is a real climb, especially between Barnsley and summer lane Jcn where the line singles. that combined with low adhesion and a standing start is probably causing this issue. I recall Sheffield .exe had a similar issue with trains to grindleford from a standing start at totley.

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2mph on the Penistone Single 09/12/2019 at 21:34 #122190
clive
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jc92 in post 122182 said:

Banners88 in post 122180 said:

Running the 2007 TT with poor adhesion option and no ARS.

Finding that if you hold trains at BY1039 they will not accelerate above 2mph
Sounds like the way the core code is handling the gradient. Barnsley - Huddersfield is a real climb, especially between Barnsley and summer lane Jcn where the line singles. that combined with low adhesion and a standing start is probably causing this issue. I recall Sheffield .exe had a similar issue with trains to grindleford from a standing start at totley.
That's exactly what it is. A previous version of the core code, in a similar situation, had trains running away out of control down the North London Incline. I changed the code to add emergency sanding: trains which can't cope with the gradient (in either direction) creep along.

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2mph on the Penistone Single 09/12/2019 at 23:35 #122191
postal
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Adverse conditions have always had a disruptive effect on Sheffield ever since the original .exe sim was released. Have a look at this post!
"No question is too stupid, there are just some stupid answers" - Dr. Michael Reece, 12/08/1927 - 03/06/2019. Electrical engineer and inventor
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2mph on the Penistone Single 10/12/2019 at 11:13 #122192
Banners88
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Can a fix be added to the Christmas wish list for what Santa brings me in a few weeks?

Been a good boy this year!

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2mph on the Penistone Single 10/12/2019 at 13:35 #122193
clive
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Banners88 in post 122192 said:
Can a fix be added to the Christmas wish list for what Santa brings me in a few weeks?
Fix what? This isn't a bug. The loco simply doesn't have enough adhesion to pull that load up that gradient. If I removed the 2 mph code, it would be doing 0 mph instead.

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2mph on the Penistone Single 10/12/2019 at 15:15 #122197
Jan
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clive in post 122193 said:
The loco [...]

What if the train in question is an MU, though? The ratio of adhesive weight to total weight is an important factor in this case and it will differ significantly between loco-hauled trains and MUs, and even within those classes, too.
Simsig however currently doesn't expose this factor in its train type properties, so if the internal physics model were to use a value that is more typical of loco-hauled trains (i.e. a low ratio of adhesive to total weight), then under low-adhesion conditions MUs would fare worse than they'd do in reality.

Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
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2mph on the Penistone Single 10/12/2019 at 16:02 #122199
Chromatix
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And in the case of loco-hauled trains, I'd expect an extra loco to be provided if weather conditions warranted it. In the old days, that might have meant conditional banking; these days it might occasionally double-heading (but conditions would have to be very bad for that, not merely wet rails).
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2mph on the Penistone Single 10/12/2019 at 16:18 #122200
jc92
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clive in post 122193 said:
Banners88 in post 122192 said:
Can a fix be added to the Christmas wish list for what Santa brings me in a few weeks?
Fix what? This isn't a bug. The loco simply doesn't have enough adhesion to pull that load up that gradient. If I removed the 2 mph code, it would be doing 0 mph instead.
I think the argument would be it SHOULD even if it currently doesn't. Simsig knows this is a 30m train with medium acceleration and presumably medium weight. I can't see anything that sticks out that says "this train shouldn't be able to handle a standing start. A multiple unit can (and of course do IRL) handle that line and even if it was a 30m loco and one coach I can't see there would be issues.

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2mph on the Penistone Single 10/12/2019 at 16:44 #122201
GeoffM
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The incline at that signal is 1 in 50 and the schedule shows (per save) a medium weight, medium/intercity-type of train. Since it's a 142 I would expect a light weight and high/commuter-type of train. Indeed, if you change the type to this, it does accelerate up the hill. So the timetable needs correcting.
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2mph on the Penistone Single 15/12/2019 at 17:50 #122285
Lyn-Greenwood
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GeoffM in post 122201 said:
The incline at that signal is 1 in 50 and the schedule shows (per save) a medium weight, medium/intercity-type of train. Since it's a 142 I would expect a light weight and high/commuter-type of train. Indeed, if you change the type to this, it does accelerate up the hill. So the timetable needs correcting.
I'll have a look at this issue over Xmas and provide an updated version of the timetable.

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2mph on the Penistone Single 01/01/2020 at 15:07 #122684
Lyn-Greenwood
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An updated version of the Sheffield 2007 timetable has now been uploaded to the website and is currently awaiting Moderator approval. This version fixes the 2mph issue and also has dwell times added to give more realism under Late Running conditions.

Enjoy!

Edit: Now approved and available for Download.

Last edited: 01/01/2020 at 16:32 by Lyn-Greenwood
Reason: None given

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