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Totality of Network Rail WTTs

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Totality of Network Rail WTTs 25/04/2020 at 20:04 #126319
tomkagnew
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Hi All

Been thinking about starting a timetable for Three Bridges based on the current WTT available on the Network Rail website. Have figured out the books I require (WA, WE, WF) but it seems pretty clear that there are no freight or infrastructure paths included. Also, information on some ECS moves (e.g. 5J99 working around the Back Road and Up Sdg North on Three Bridges) require some blanks to be filled in as they aren't detailed in the above WTTs.

My question is where can one (or those experienced TT builders) find this information?

Real Time Trains is useful but over the course of making a timetable the information would change on a day to day basis and would theoretically require every train/timing point to be checked for additional timing points/movements.

Cheers
Tom

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Totality of Network Rail WTTs 25/04/2020 at 20:18 #126320
jc92
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freight and departmental trains are in the relevant WTT's so will be listed. the books above cover passenger trains.

for shunts around depots, they aren't always listed and you'll need to "make them up" in effect yourself. TBH most are listed on realtime trains and don't normally change day to day in my experience although some locations like Sheffield have no "booked" shunt moves and everything is run to shunters orders.

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Totality of Network Rail WTTs 25/04/2020 at 21:04 #126322
markt
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Some shunts are now timed - others would purely be in the Carriage Working Notices.

I can probably help you with any timings you need for this current WTT.

Registered: 6-2004 according to the Wayback machine snapshots. 16 years and counting!
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Totality of Network Rail WTTs 25/04/2020 at 21:20 #126323
bill_gensheet
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The Groups.io 'UKMODERNEMU' group files are good for Carriage Workings or diagrams. For south of the river they have usually got CWN, while elsewhere it is diagrams.

For older timetables there is a degree of 'make it up' with common sense, so a simple 'conservation of mass' will point out a lot of the necessary workings.
For example my first stab at Kings Cross 1964 had 20 DMU too many ending up at Hitchin, so I had to look at sorting that out to balance each yard exit/entry.

Bill

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Totality of Network Rail WTTs 26/04/2020 at 09:28 #126331
TimTamToe
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Hi Tom,

I notice it was your first post, and don't know what experience you have with SimSig or writing timetables for it, but Three Bridges is a beast of a sim to write a tt for even for an experienced writer.

Search the wiki for guides for tt writing to help you, or practice on a smaller sim first (even if you just make things like timings and stock up) just so you get used to how the system works and what way works best for you (each writer has their own quirks )

I've written a tt for Three Bridges that's being tested at the mo so PM me if you have any questions along the way

Good Luck!
Gareth

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Totality of Network Rail WTTs 26/04/2020 at 16:11 #126336
DaveHarries
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I was going to try and write a Three Bridges TT but I am not sure now if I have the time to get it finished. A pity as it would be a good one with three sets of engineering works.

Dave

Last edited: 26/04/2020 at 16:12 by DaveHarries
Reason: None given

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Totality of Network Rail WTTs 27/04/2020 at 00:02 #126346
tomkagnew
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Hi Guys, thanks for all your responses.

I thought about a formal introduction but I was an avid player years ago before work took over. Had a short stint in timetable planning but mostly for another mode of transport so used to joining the dots! Have come back to see my local box modeled, hence the interest in Three Bridges and familiarity with the timetable.

I haven't really set any expectations, something I was always interested in and have the time to learn something new. Only aspiring to do a Sunday timetable to start with and at the 'data collection stage', making a WTT to make the data input easier.

jc92: That's what I believed in my experience, but the normal staple freight flows and movements that I've observed in real life (Tonbridge-Redhill and Ardingly aggregates) aren't there at all, along with the departmentals etc. I'm using WE01 to check those, wasn't sure from your post if the freight moves are in a separate WTT? Will try and comb RTT for moves in the meantime!

markt and bill: Thanks for the heads up and support- signed up to the group and downloaded the GTR CWN. Now to figure it out!

TTT: Fantastic Gareth thanks, had a good look through. Started about 194 trains into my own WTT for input to Simsig so will use that test-set to try some methods. Will be on TS from time to time too.

Thanks guys
Tom

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Totality of Network Rail WTTs 27/04/2020 at 00:33 #126347
postal
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Freight/departmental are shown separately in the WK series. WK00 lists the areas covered by each of the TTs in the section. WK04 is probably the most help for you.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Totality of Network Rail WTTs 27/04/2020 at 08:51 #126351
TimTamToe
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Hi Tom,

As John (Postal) has said the freight is in a separate WTT WK--, I think there's a couple that are useful, I have a search for what ones I've used.

Remember you'll also need the LO diagrams / CWN (should be on UKModernEMU) but they aren't too difficult to work out as clockface timings.

And FGW for their Reading - Redhill / Gatwick these won't be on that group as they are diesel but I think are still class 165 and 166 and 2 or 3 cars. There is someone on the forum that may be able to help further with FGW's but I'll let him answer.

I'll drop you a PM regarding some other things

Gareth

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Totality of Network Rail WTTs 27/04/2020 at 12:18 #126360
JamesN
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The GWR (we haven’t been FGW for nearly 5 years now!) Redhill/Gatwick services are all 3 car 165s - there are no 2 cars or 166s diagrammed in the Dec19 TT
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Totality of Network Rail WTTs 27/04/2020 at 13:37 #126368
Meld
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JamesN in post 126360 said:
The GWR (we haven’t been FGW for nearly 5 years now!) Redhill/Gatwick services are all 3 car 165s - there are no 2 cars or 166s diagrammed in the Dec19 TT
Thank you 'Someone on the forum'

Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!!
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Totality of Network Rail WTTs 27/04/2020 at 16:24 #126376
TimTamToe
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JamesN in post 126360 said:
The GWR (we haven’t been FGW for nearly 5 years now!) Redhill/Gatwick services are all 3 car 165s - there are no 2 cars or 166s diagrammed in the Dec19 TT
It was early and I only write in 2012 - that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it

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Totality of Network Rail WTTs 27/04/2020 at 17:13 #126377
9pN1SEAp
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Do you know how I can find freight workings over HS1 to Dollands Moor / Calais? The NR site doesn't seem to have these listed in sections WK or LD.

Ripple Lane Exchange seems to be a complete black spot for any WTT's!

Thanks
Jamie

Jamie S (JAMS)
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Totality of Network Rail WTTs 30/04/2020 at 16:17 #126451
tomkagnew
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Hi All

Thanks again for all of your help! Freight and departmentals are now in hand, as well at the UKModernEMU CWNs.

A question about the GB WTT system however (didn't have this problem in Northern Ireland):
If two Books overlap over more than two timing points does that mean that ALL movements between the two will appear in both? To show a few examples I have:

WA01 Orpington/Redhill-Ashford
WF01AF/WF01AR Victoria/LBridge-East Croydon/West Croydon
WE01 East Croydon-Brighton and Redhill-Tonbridge
WF01B East Croydon-Stoats Nest Jn inc. Caterham, Tattenham and East Grinstead branch (as far as Sanderstead)

1. While managing data for 1Axx Victoria-Brighton fasts, I can use WF01AF and WE01 - can I consider WF01B redundant?
2. While managing data for 2Axx Redhill-Tonbridge shuttles, I can use WE01 - can I consider WA01 redundant?
3. Is this a consistent policy?

ATB
Tom

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Totality of Network Rail WTTs 03/05/2020 at 20:11 #126526
madaboutrains
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On a tangent, I have noticed that London overground on the Clapham to Dalston East London route do not seem to be tabled at Clapham Junction in the main timetable section. Although its shown the origin times in the timetable headers I honestly thought that the times will need to show atleast once in the main timetable section?

Thoughts?

RIP Feltham Panel 1
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Totality of Network Rail WTTs 03/05/2020 at 20:32 #126529
9pN1SEAp
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madaboutrains in post 126526 said:
On a tangent, I have noticed that London overground on the Clapham to Dalston East London route do not seem to be tabled at Clapham Junction in the main timetable section. Although its shown the origin times in the timetable headers I honestly thought that the times will need to show atleast once in the main timetable section?

Thoughts?
The West London Line (Book WB02) is in a different area to the other lines running through Clapham Jn. The through services via 16/17 continue in book WF01A Southwards, and are in a separate table in Waterloo book WH02. As you can see in SimSig, there are multiple control areas at Clapham Junction fringed with each other!

As the LOROL services terminate in Platforms 0-2, they only need to covered in the one book.

Jamie S (JAMS)
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