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Cheshire Lines Timetables 08/07/2020 at 11:29 #129273
whatlep
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Four "heritage" timetables are now available for downloading for the Mid Cheshire line and its appendage to Stockport. If you find any bugs or issues, document them here, but PLEASE, check the supplied guidance notes in the General tab of the timetable first!

The timetables are:
1985 (May) - all passenger trains using the direct route to Manchester and the Skelton-Warrington Arpley route still in use (simulated by cheating and using Partington as an entry/ exit substitute). Very intense evening service on the Down line, intermixing scheduled freight and passenger traffic. Peak hour trains originate/ reverse at Greenbank and Knutsford (Plumley West).
1985 (September) - as May, but the Arpley route is closed with some trains re-routed via Deansgate Jn and Northwich.
1989 - Chester services now re-routed via Stockport adding to conflicts at Deansgate Jn. More rush hour services of both DMUs and EMUs require careful terminus platforming at Altrincham. Rather tricky!
1992 (May) - a cheeky little timetable from the end of the six-month period when the Altrincham line was being downgraded to tram operation. Good for getting your bearings on the simulation's curiosities.

In every case, it's much more fun if you keep to the default options: level crossings and Absolute Block on; TORR off. The level crossings at Navigation Road and Deansgate Lane in particular will keep you alert even when traffic is light.

The Holy Grail is to recreate the 1977 timetable, but that will have to wait for some Mantis activity. In 1977, there was more freight, plus peak hour DMU reversals from the Chester direction at Altrincham as well as the usual reversals at Greenbank and Knutsford (and also Northwich in reality).

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Last edited: 08/07/2020 at 11:32 by whatlep
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Cheshire Lines Timetables 09/07/2020 at 01:08 #129336
Phil-jmw
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whatlep in post 129273 said:
Four "heritage" timetables are now available for downloading for the Mid Cheshire line and its appendage to Stockport. If you find any bugs or issues, document them here, but PLEASE, check the supplied guidance notes in the General tab of the timetable first!

The timetables are:
1985 (May) - all passenger trains using the direct route to Manchester and the Skelton-Warrington Arpley route still in use (simulated by cheating and using Partington as an entry/ exit substitute). Very intense evening service on the Down line, intermixing scheduled freight and passenger traffic. Peak hour trains originate/ reverse at Greenbank and Knutsford (Plumley West).
1985 (September) - as May, but the Arpley route is closed with some trains re-routed via Deansgate Jn and Northwich.
1989 - Chester services now re-routed via Stockport adding to conflicts at Deansgate Jn. More rush hour services of both DMUs and EMUs require careful terminus platforming at Altrincham. Rather tricky!
1992 (May) - a cheeky little timetable from the end of the six-month period when the Altrincham line was being downgraded to tram operation. Good for getting your bearings on the simulation's curiosities.

In every case, it's much more fun if you keep to the default options: level crossings and Absolute Block on; TORR off. The level crossings at Navigation Road and Deansgate Lane in particular will keep you alert even when traffic is light.

The Holy Grail is to recreate the 1977 timetable, but that will have to wait for some Mantis activity. In 1977, there was more freight, plus peak hour DMU reversals from the Chester direction at Altrincham as well as the usual reversals at Greenbank and Knutsford (and also Northwich in reality).
I'd best tell the Mrs not to make too many plans for this weekend then... :-)

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Cheshire Lines Timetables 09/07/2020 at 02:04 #129347
Phil-jmw
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Running the May 1985 TT Monday TT, 6M15 0155 Lindsey - Oakleigh needs a rule to prevent the Northwich - Oakleigh train calling up ready at Northwich before the Lindsey - Northwich train has arrived at Northwich Reception Sdgs.
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Cheshire Lines Timetables 09/07/2020 at 03:10 #129348
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Phil-jmw in post 129347 said:
Running the May 1985 TT Monday TT, 6M15 0155 Lindsey - Oakleigh needs a rule to prevent the Northwich - Oakleigh train calling up ready at Northwich before the Lindsey - Northwich train has arrived at Northwich Reception Sdgs.
There's a rule already in the timetable for exactly that purpose! Evidently it isn't working as anticipated. I will investigate. Thank you for the feedback.

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Cheshire Lines Timetables 09/07/2020 at 09:30 #129353
postal
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whatlep in post 129348 said:
Phil-jmw in post 129347 said:
Running the May 1985 TT Monday TT, 6M15 0155 Lindsey - Oakleigh needs a rule to prevent the Northwich - Oakleigh train calling up ready at Northwich before the Lindsey - Northwich train has arrived at Northwich Reception Sdgs.
There's a rule already in the timetable for exactly that purpose! Evidently it isn't working as anticipated. I will investigate. Thank you for the feedback.
Couple of questions.

1) Do trains drop off the sim at Northwich Reception Sdgs or do they remain in sim with an N working?
2) If they drop off, Is the rule "must enter x minutes after 6M15 arrives at Northwich" or "must enter x minutes after 6M15 leaves the area"?

I can't remember the exact whys and wherefores about whether it is how the data in the sim is constructed, but I have worked on a TTs in the past where you must use the "leaves the area" option for locations where trains drop off the sim as the "arrives at Northwich" doesn't seem to work. If 6M15 forms a N working you can just enter a dwell time in the Northwich Reception Sdgs time on the return leg rather than setting up a rule.

Disclaimer: that could be rubbish if the core code has moved on since my problems many moons ago.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Cheshire Lines Timetables 09/07/2020 at 11:14 #129360
whatlep
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postal in post 129353 said:
whatlep in post 129348 said:
Phil-jmw in post 129347 said:
Running the May 1985 TT Monday TT, 6M15 0155 Lindsey - Oakleigh needs a rule to prevent the Northwich - Oakleigh train calling up ready at Northwich before the Lindsey - Northwich train has arrived at Northwich Reception Sdgs.
There's a rule already in the timetable for exactly that purpose! Evidently it isn't working as anticipated. I will investigate. Thank you for the feedback.
Couple of questions.

1) Do trains drop off the sim at Northwich Reception Sdgs or do they remain in sim with an N working?
2) If they drop off, Is the rule "must enter x minutes after 6M15 arrives at Northwich" or "must enter x minutes after 6M15 leaves the area"?

I can't remember the exact whys and wherefores about whether it is how the data in the sim is constructed, but I have worked on a TTs in the past where you must use the "leaves the area" option for locations where trains drop off the sim as the "arrives at Northwich" doesn't seem to work. If 6M15 forms a N working you can just enter a dwell time in the Northwich Reception Sdgs time on the return leg rather than setting up a rule.

Disclaimer: that could be rubbish if the core code has moved on since my problems many moons ago.
I think you've hit the nail on the head with the "leaves the area" issue. By "N" working, do you mean a next working?
Thanks for the help - I will amend the timetables in due course. Just shows that you can test things and not have an issue that others get immediately. Sigh....

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Cheshire Lines Timetables 09/07/2020 at 16:09 #129377
whatlep
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OK - a quick update on the rules problem phil-jmw brought to my attention. The rules affecting "off stage" locations need to be changed to "Train must not appear until 25 minutes after (Previous Train) leaves the area". That appears to work, after testing using the 1992 timetable.

Expect V1.1 of the timetables to appear in the imminent future. Apologies for the initial rule-setting error.

As an aside, the 1977 timetable is in development. There is a LOT of freight and it promises to be challenging!

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Cheshire Lines Timetables 09/07/2020 at 17:34 #129382
bugsy
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Is there a layout diagram or signal plan for the Cheshire Lines sim?
I seem to recall seeing something somewhere, but that may just be my memory up to its usual tricks.

Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
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Cheshire Lines Timetables 09/07/2020 at 17:36 #129383
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bugsy in post 129382 said:
Is there a layout diagram or signal plan for the Cheshire Lines sim?
I seem to recall seeing something somewhere, but that may just be my memory up to its usual tricks.
Available on the Wiki

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Cheshire Lines Timetables 09/07/2020 at 17:49 #129385
bugsy
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Ah, yes. I see it now. Read down through the manual but didn't see it in the 'Table of Contents' box on the right. Neither did I see it in the 'Reference' section with the big bold lettering.

My mother always used to say to my day "You can't see the wood for the trees" Seems that I've got the same problem.
Thanks

Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
Last edited: 09/07/2020 at 18:00 by bugsy
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Cheshire Lines Timetables 09/07/2020 at 18:21 #129388
postal
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whatlep in post 129360 said:
I think you've hit the nail on the head with the "leaves the area" issue. By "N" working, do you mean a next working?
Indeed so.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Cheshire Lines Timetables 09/07/2020 at 18:42 #129391
GeoffM
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postal in post 129353 said:
I can't remember the exact whys and wherefores about whether it is how the data in the sim is constructed, but I have worked on a TTs in the past where you must use the "leaves the area" option for locations where trains drop off the sim as the "arrives at Northwich" doesn't seem to work. If 6M15 forms a N working you can just enter a dwell time in the Northwich Reception Sdgs time on the return leg rather than setting up a rule.

Disclaimer: that could be rubbish if the core code has moved on since my problems many moons ago.
It's nothing to do with the core code. It's whether the data developer has included that final location just before the train exits. There are pros and cons to including it versus letting the train fall off without ever arriving at that location. Case-by-case basis really.

SimSig Boss
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Cheshire Lines Timetables 09/07/2020 at 20:06 #129393
Phil-jmw
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whatlep in post 129348 said:
Phil-jmw in post 129347 said:
Running the May 1985 TT Monday TT, 6M15 0155 Lindsey - Oakleigh needs a rule to prevent the Northwich - Oakleigh train calling up ready at Northwich before the Lindsey - Northwich train has arrived at Northwich Reception Sdgs.
There's a rule already in the timetable for exactly that purpose! Evidently it isn't working as anticipated. I will investigate. Thank you for the feedback.
I must admit I didn't look to see if there was a rule, I just assumed there wasn't one because the outward working called up from Northwich Sdgs before the inwards arrived.

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Cheshire Lines Timetables 09/07/2020 at 20:12 #129394
whatlep
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Phil-jmw in post 129393 said:
whatlep in post 129348 said:
Phil-jmw in post 129347 said:
Running the May 1985 TT Monday TT, 6M15 0155 Lindsey - Oakleigh needs a rule to prevent the Northwich - Oakleigh train calling up ready at Northwich before the Lindsey - Northwich train has arrived at Northwich Reception Sdgs.
There's a rule already in the timetable for exactly that purpose! Evidently it isn't working as anticipated. I will investigate. Thank you for the feedback.
I must admit I didn't look to see if there was a rule, I just assumed there wasn't one because the outward working called up from Northwich Sdgs before the inwards arrived.
No problem - should be fixed in V1.1 in all 4 timetables. All awaiting Mod approval.

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Cheshire Lines Timetables 09/07/2020 at 21:46 #129400
postal
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GeoffM in post 129391 said:
It's nothing to do with the core code. It's whether the data developer has included that final location just before the train exits. There are pros and cons to including it versus letting the train fall off without ever arriving at that location. Case-by-case basis really.
It's a bad day when you don't learn something new!

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Cheshire Lines Timetables 10/07/2020 at 00:03 #129409
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postal in post 129400 said:
GeoffM in post 129391 said:
It's nothing to do with the core code. It's whether the data developer has included that final location just before the train exits. There are pros and cons to including it versus letting the train fall off without ever arriving at that location. Case-by-case basis really.
It's a bad day when you don't learn something new!
Watering up one of our UTU's at Glasgow Central one night a couple of years ago and two BT policewomen wandered up, curious to know what the train did. One of their comments after I explained has stayed with me ever since - "Every day's a school day".

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Cheshire Lines Timetables 10/07/2020 at 07:37 #129414
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What's a UTU?

Peter (a schoolboy)

I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Cheshire Lines Timetables 10/07/2020 at 07:48 #129416
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Ultrasonsic Test Unit

Paul

You have to get a red before you can get any other colour
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Cheshire Lines Timetables 10/07/2020 at 10:26 #129422
bugsy
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Peter Bennet in post 129414 said:
What's a UTU?

Peter (a schoolboy)
I have a suggestion. Perhaps those 'in the know' who use abbreviations like this could educate/inform others by putting an explanation in parentheses.

For example: TUT (Totally Unrelated Topic)

Sorry about that. Just my little joke

Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
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Cheshire Lines Timetables 10/07/2020 at 11:27 #129425
Hap
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All this information is located in the Simsig wiki, which has numerous links to different sources.

I've started a new thread https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/51022?postId=129424, so that this one here can focus on it's original topic of Timetables for Cheshire Lines.

HAP
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Cheshire Lines Timetables 10/07/2020 at 21:02 #129436
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Peter Bennet in post 129414 said:
What's a UTU?

Peter (a schoolboy)
Peter - thanks for asking. That's the trouble with TLAs, no-one has the balls to ask.

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Cheshire Lines Timetables 11/07/2020 at 00:33 #129462
Phil-jmw
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bugsy in post 129422 said:
Peter Bennet in post 129414 said:
What's a UTU?

Peter (a schoolboy)
I have a suggestion. Perhaps those 'in the know' who use abbreviations like this could educate/inform others by putting an explanation in parentheses.

For example: TUT (Totally Unrelated Topic)

Sorry about that. Just my little joke :)
UTU's appear in many of the Simsig TT's, bugsy, and have been discussed in various threads in this forum so it was fair of me to assume many of you would know what one is (unless people run sims without knowing what some of the trains are), without having to potentially insult people's intelligence with a long-winded explanation in parentheses to satisfy the needs of anyone who feels they should have everything handed to them on a plate (like you, it would appear, do) rather than answer a polite question (as Peter asked) to expand their knowledge base.

Just my little joke.

(And yes, totally unrelated to the original topic).

Last edited: 11/07/2020 at 02:19 by Phil-jmw
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Cheshire Lines Timetables 11/07/2020 at 10:02 #129466
bugsy
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Phil-jmw in post 129462 said:
bugsy in post 129422 said:
Peter Bennet in post 129414 said:
What's a UTU?

Peter (a schoolboy)
I have a suggestion. Perhaps those 'in the know' who use abbreviations like this could educate/inform others by putting an explanation in parentheses.

For example: TUT (Totally Unrelated Topic)

Sorry about that. Just my little joke :)
UTU's appear in many of the Simsig TT's, bugsy, and have been discussed in various threads in this forum so it was fair of me to assume many of you would know what one is (unless people run sims without knowing what some of the trains are), without having to potentially insult people's intelligence with a long-winded explanation in parentheses to satisfy the needs of anyone who feels they should have everything handed to them on a plate (like you, it would appear, do) rather than answer a polite question (as Peter asked) to expand their knowledge base.

Just my little joke.

(And yes, totally unrelated to the original topic).
You needn't worry. I'll look things up in future!

Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
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Cheshire Lines Timetables 11/07/2020 at 13:04 #129468
whatlep
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Bringing this thread back to Cheshire Lines timetables at least for a moment, V1.1 of all four timetables is now available for download.

The 1977 timetable now contains all trains other than the Altrincham EMUs and is shaping up nicely to be a true test of "signalmanship". Release may depend on Mantis fixes, but I have some work-rounds in mind if those don't appear.

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Cheshire Lines Timetables 11/07/2020 at 20:21 #129480
Peter Bennet
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Humorist in post 129436 said:
Peter Bennet in post 129414 said:
What's a UTU?

Peter (a schoolboy)
Peter - thanks for asking. That's the trouble with TLAs, no-one has the balls to ask.
I do have a bit of a habit at work for stopping people in mid-flow to ask them what they are talking about!

Peter

I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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