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Edinburgh v5 issues.

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Edinburgh v5 issues. 30/07/2020 at 15:31 #130176
Hap
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Steamer in post 130169 said:
Hap in post 130154 said:

That's not gonna work. Track layout changes and line speed changes won't give you a decent representation of the current real life line. Also QST platforms aren't as they are now for 380/385s in multiple formations.
Some of these changes are the uplifting of the DGL at Greenhill upper, and a new slip from the main line to the Down Branch/Down Perth. line speed raised.
Larbert Down side lifted and made into a DPL. Up side a CE siding. Colour light signalling on all areas of DBL except the Up home and Down Section.

Since the EMUs have been fully integrated onto the lines they now work, all the timings have been made to take into account 1. DMUs running and 2. HST running.
The platform lengths on CScot match those given in the current sectional appendix. The lower speed limit for the Branch line at Greenhill (40 on sim vice 70 in real life) isn't brilliant but can be lived with. Everything else you've listed is more cosmetic- while not fully accurate, it shouldn't functionally affect the running of a modern TT, unless there's a real show-stopper that I've missed?

Agreed that a modern Edinburgh TT isn't remotely possible.
In regards to QST, I've looked at the manual and the platform lengths stated in there, Which don't represent the EGIP era. As you said though, the Era represents the new lengths. That could probably do with being added....
• Platform 1 – max 4 coaches (98 metres)
• Platform 2 – max 7 coaches (171 metres)
• Platform 3 – max 8 coaches (196 metres)
• Platform 4 – max 8 coaches (196 metres)
• Platform 5 – max 7 coaches (171 metres)
• Platform 6 – max 6 coaches (147 metres)
• Platform 7 – max 8 coaches (196 metres)

Yeah, I should probably have split the post into two areas. I should've said it won't be exactly perfect, and Edinburgh was a non starter for anything modern.

HAP
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Edinburgh v5 issues. 30/07/2020 at 15:45 #130178
Splodge
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Found an odd one, possibly stopping-position related. I routed 1E07 from E482 (line W) through P11 to its booked P10. However rather than stopping in P10, it called to complain it was waiting at E432. I cleared E432 (thinking perhaps it had stopped in 11 and been dispatched from the mid-platform) to E426 on the North line only for it to draw forward and then start its station duties, blocking the south end of the station.
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Edinburgh v5 issues. 30/07/2020 at 16:25 #130179
bnsf734
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I have just downloaded the Loader version of Edinburgh and started it off to have a look.

I immediately got the same error as I have been getting on Manchester Piccadilly.

The error occurred after 1B16 had been seeded (which is the first train to be seeded) and reads:

1B16 Internal error(1B16 in Enter: EInvalidOp:Invalid Floating Point Operation

After Pressing OK another error message box appears:

External Exception C000001D

No more trains are seeded.

The error does not occur when ARS is disabled during load, just like Manchester Piccadilly, and has only occurred on my PC and 1 other for Manchester Piccadilly. My Laptop in running Windows 10.

I believe Geoff has a fix for the Manchester Piccadilly error.

Sorry to break another Sim!

Calvin

Last edited: 30/07/2020 at 16:26 by bnsf734
Reason: None given

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Edinburgh v5 issues. 30/07/2020 at 16:35 #130180
Steamer
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bnsf734 in post 130179 said:

Sorry to break another Sim!

Calvin
You're not breaking simulations; it's a core code bug that's affecting ARS. It should be fixed in the next Loader update. Until then, unfortunately, you're likely to run into it on any simulation with ARS enabled.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Last edited: 30/07/2020 at 16:36 by Steamer
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Edinburgh v5 issues. 30/07/2020 at 17:16 #130182
postal
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Splodge in post 130178 said:
Found an odd one, possibly stopping-position related. I routed 1E07 from E482 (line W) through P11 to its booked P10. However rather than stopping in P10, it called to complain it was waiting at E432. I cleared E432 (thinking perhaps it had stopped in 11 and been dispatched from the mid-platform) to E426 on the North line only for it to draw forward and then start its station duties, blocking the south end of the station.
Generic problem regarding trains routed P11 > P10. Reported on Mantis.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Edinburgh v5 issues. 30/07/2020 at 21:36 #130192
bugsy
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I've noticed what appears to be an incorrect train description:

When 0S25 left Craigentinny shortly after 03:20 bound for Waverley it was a Class 67 x 2 (40m long). When it arrived at SLxW it divided with the rear portion forming 0Yll , obviously a Class 67 (20m long) which would mean that 0S25 would also be a Class 67 (20m long).
0S25 then proceeded to Mound Tunnel (Rev) prior to reversing and joining 1S25 in platform 11. However, I then noticed, as can be seen from the second screenshot (and in the Train List), that this train is described as a Class 67 x 2 (40m long) which it can't be.

Doesn't really matter, but thought that I'd mention it.

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Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
Last edited: 30/07/2020 at 21:37 by bugsy
Reason: Added screenshots

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Edinburgh v5 issues. 30/07/2020 at 21:50 #130194
postal
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bugsy in post 130192 said:
I've noticed what appears to be an incorrect train description:

When 0S25 left Craigentinny shortly after 03:20 bound for Waverley it was a Class 67 x 2 (40m long). When it arrived at SLxW it divided with the rear portion forming 0Yll , obviously a Class 67 (20m long) which would mean that 0S25 would also be a Class 67 (20m long).
0S25 then proceeded to Mound Tunnel (Rev) prior to reversing and joining 1S25 in platform 11. However, I then noticed, as can be seen from the second screenshot (and in the Train List), that this train is described as a Class 67 x 2 (40m long) which it can't be.

Doesn't really matter, but thought that I'd mention it.
The train description stops with the train from entry onwards. If you look at the length of the train in F2 you will see that it starts at 40m. then drops to 20m. after the detach.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Edinburgh v5 issues. 30/07/2020 at 21:54 #130195
y10g9
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bugsy in post 130192 said:
I've noticed what appears to be an incorrect train description:

When 0S25 left Craigentinny shortly after 03:20 bound for Waverley it was a Class 67 x 2 (40m long). When it arrived at SLxW it divided with the rear portion forming 0Yll , obviously a Class 67 (20m long) which would mean that 0S25 would also be a Class 67 (20m long).
0S25 then proceeded to Mound Tunnel (Rev) prior to reversing and joining 1S25 in platform 11. However, I then noticed, as can be seen from the second screenshot (and in the Train List), that this train is described as a Class 67 x 2 (40m long) which it can't be.

Doesn't really matter, but thought that I'd mention it.
Train descriptions do not get updated partway through a schedule. The only way to update a description is to have a new working for the portion of 0S25 that has remained, which would give you the option to update the description. This is the same with the characteristics, you'll notice that the Length after the divide remains at 40m in the TT window where as it will be 20m in length.

In this case its a throw up between having a slightly incorrect description for 7 sim minutes, or splitting the schedule and not being able to know where the second portion of 0S25 is going until after the divide has happened

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Edinburgh v5 issues. 30/07/2020 at 22:08 #130196
swiftaw
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I'm glad I read about the 5A41 issue here before I encountered it in the sim, otherwise I would've been really confused.

I was wondering, could the issue be resolved by splitting the schedule at the first Edinburgh stop?

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Edinburgh v5 issues. 30/07/2020 at 22:35 #130199
bugsy
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y10g9 in post 130195 said:
bugsy in post 130192 said:
I've noticed what appears to be an incorrect train description:

When 0S25 left Craigentinny shortly after 03:20 bound for Waverley it was a Class 67 x 2 (40m long). When it arrived at SLxW it divided with the rear portion forming 0Yll , obviously a Class 67 (20m long) which would mean that 0S25 would also be a Class 67 (20m long).
0S25 then proceeded to Mound Tunnel (Rev) prior to reversing and joining 1S25 in platform 11. However, I then noticed, as can be seen from the second screenshot (and in the Train List), that this train is described as a Class 67 x 2 (40m long) which it can't be.

Doesn't really matter, but thought that I'd mention it.
Train descriptions do not get updated partway through a schedule. The only way to update a description is to have a new working for the portion of 0S25 that has remained, which would give you the option to update the description. This is the same with the characteristics, you'll notice that the Length after the divide remains at 40m in the TT window where as it will be 20m in length.

In this case its a throw up between having a slightly incorrect description for 7 sim minutes, or splitting the schedule and not being able to know where the second portion of 0S25 is going until after the divide has happened
OK. No problem, thanks.

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
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Edinburgh v5 issues. 30/07/2020 at 23:20 #130200
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swiftaw in post 130196 said:
I'm glad I read about the 5A41 issue here before I encountered it in the sim, otherwise I would've been really confused.

I was wondering, could the issue be resolved by splitting the schedule at the first Edinburgh stop?
Indeed it could and in previous versions of the TT that was done. However, the bug only recurred a month ago during the development of the loader towards v5. The TT has not been amended in the hope that the change in the code that has revived the problem can be modified to revert things to the previously successful operation.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Edinburgh v5 issues. 31/07/2020 at 01:56 #130203
Woodhead Signalman
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Hi, I just had a phone call from a 'shunter' which asked me if i wanted to let 6S01 run 15 minutes earlier than booked from the Berwick-on-Tweed direction. Shouldn't I have the got the call from the signaller at Berwick-on-Tweed signal box, not a 'shunter'? Looks like possibly a glitch in the code somewhere. Thanks for attention in this matter. Alan.
Last edited: 31/07/2020 at 01:56 by Woodhead Signalman
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Edinburgh v5 issues. 31/07/2020 at 15:20 #130222
bugsy
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The Sleeper join at Waverley has come back to haunt me.
I had problems with the join of a sleeper in the .exe version for which the solution was given (think that it was resetting the various train’s current locations). However, I can’t get it to work, so could it be something else?

As no other users have reported anything, it’s probably somewhat of my own making.
According to the Train List, after detaching loco 0S25 from 1S25 at the east end of platform 10, 1S25 has become 2 units. Then when I route 0A25 into platform 11 expecting it to join 1S25, it won’t.

Sorry to be a pain, but I’ve tried all sorts of things; shunting forwards, reversing, various edits of the timetable, but all to no avail. There’s probably something that I have overlooked, so if some kind person would like to run the attached save through, perhaps they can see something that I can’t.

Thanks in advance.
Bugsy

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Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
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Edinburgh v5 issues. 31/07/2020 at 16:45 #130228
postal
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Can't make sense of your post. Are you working things in the following sequence:

1) Highland Sleeper arrives and will ultimately form three sections (Inverness 1S25, Aberdeen 1A25 and Fort William 1Y11)
2) 0S25 Diesel loco from Millerhill joins at the West end.
3) Train detaches Inverness portion at West end for 04:15 departure.
4) Incoming Electric Loco detaches from East end and goes off to Craigentinny. If you are working to TT and not running early you then have the Inverness train at the West end of P10/11 and an unpowered consist behind it.
5) Departure of 1S25 followed by 0A25 running through to Mound Tunnel and reversing onto unpowered consist to attach.
6) After attachment of 0A25, 1A25 powered Aberdeen portion splits at West end leaving unpowered Fort William portion in P10.
7) 1A25 departs in due course.
8) 5Y11 runs out from Motorail Bay and attaches Fort William day coaches to East end of sleeper (P10).
9) 0Y11 Light diesel for Fort William portion detaches from East end after attaching Day Coaches, runs round and attaches at West End of consist in P10.
10) 1Y11 Fort William portion departs in due course.

Running to that schedule everything in your save works as expected.

Just as a thought, you're not trying to put 0A25 into P11 before 1S25 (Inverness portion) has departed, are you?

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 31/07/2020 at 16:45 by postal
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Edinburgh v5 issues. 31/07/2020 at 17:52 #130232
bugsy
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postal in post 130228 said:
Can't make sense of your post. Are you working things in the following sequence:

1) Highland Sleeper arrives and will ultimately form three sections (Inverness 1S25, Aberdeen 1A25 and Fort William 1Y11)
2) 0S25 Diesel loco from Millerhill joins at the West end.
3) Train detaches Inverness portion at West end for 04:15 departure.
4) Incoming Electric Loco detaches from East end and goes off to Craigentinny. If you are working to TT and not running early you then have the Inverness train at the West end of P10/11 and an unpowered consist behind it.
5) Departure of 1S25 followed by 0A25 running through to Mound Tunnel and reversing onto unpowered consist to attach.
6) After attachment of 0A25, 1A25 powered Aberdeen portion splits at West end leaving unpowered Fort William portion in P10.
7) 1A25 departs in due course.
8) 5Y11 runs out from Motorail Bay and attaches Fort William day coaches to East end of sleeper (P10).
9) 0Y11 Light diesel for Fort William portion detaches from East end after attaching Day Coaches, runs round and attaches at West End of consist in P10.
10) 1Y11 Fort William portion departs in due course.

Running to that schedule everything in your save works as expected.

Just as a thought, you're not trying to put 0A25 into P11 before 1S25 (Inverness portion) has departed, are you?
Hi Postal.

Thanks for your reply.

I feel a bit silly because your last thought is exactly what I had done. I'll go back over things and study all of the timetables more closely as I obviously misunderstood that there were separate departure :/

Thank you for your patience.

BTW, it was you who put me right in the .exe version.

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
Last edited: 31/07/2020 at 17:53 by bugsy
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Edinburgh v5 issues. 31/07/2020 at 18:09 #130233
Dick
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Got to admit it does take a bit of head scratching to work it all out, particularly when locos appear early.
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Edinburgh v5 issues. 31/07/2020 at 18:13 #130234
bugsy
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Dick in post 130233 said:
Got to admit it does take a bit of head scratching to work it all out, particularly when locos appear early.
And I've got to admit that I don't pay enough attention to the timetables. Should have learnt the lesson by now.

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
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Edinburgh v5 issues. 31/07/2020 at 18:18 #130235
postal
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Dick in post 130233 said:
Got to admit it does take a bit of head scratching to work it all out, particularly when locos appear early.
That's why the more complex sims are fun to play.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Edinburgh v5 issues. 31/07/2020 at 18:21 #130236
bugsy
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postal in post 130235 said:
Dick in post 130233 said:
Got to admit it does take a bit of head scratching to work it all out, particularly when locos appear early.
That's why the more complex sims are fun to play.
I have to agree, but I need to take more care.

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
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Edinburgh v5 issues. 31/07/2020 at 18:37 #130237
bill_gensheet
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The other cautionary note is that ACI is never going to keep up with this amount of splitting and joining, and may well result in misleading TD's showing.



Bill

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Edinburgh v5 issues. 31/07/2020 at 20:40 #130242
Dick
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postal in post 130235 said:
Dick in post 130233 said:
Got to admit it does take a bit of head scratching to work it all out, particularly when locos appear early.
That's why the more complex sims are fun to play.
Indeed so!

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Edinburgh v5 issues. 01/08/2020 at 12:20 #130263
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bnsf734 in post 130179 said:
I have just downloaded the Loader version of Edinburgh and started it off to have a look.

I immediately got the same error as I have been getting on Manchester Piccadilly.

The error occurred after 1B16 had been seeded (which is the first train to be seeded) and reads:

1B16 Internal error(1B16 in Enter: EInvalidOp:Invalid Floating Point Operation

After Pressing OK another error message box appears:

External Exception C000001D

No more trains are seeded.

The error does not occur when ARS is disabled during load, just like Manchester Piccadilly, and has only occurred on my PC and 1 other for Manchester Piccadilly. My Laptop in running Windows 10.

I believe Geoff has a fix for the Manchester Piccadilly error.

Sorry to break another Sim!

Calvin
Having similarly experienced the issues with ARS on Man Picc, I can confirm the same has happened for me with Edinburgh, except that I didn't get the 'Intenal Exception...' message.

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Edinburgh v5 issues. 01/08/2020 at 18:26 #130274
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bill_gensheet in post 130237 said:
The other cautionary note is that ACI is never going to keep up with this amount of splitting and joining, and may well result in misleading TD's showing.
Of course, you have to bear in mind, in real life the ARS does not handle anywhere near as much ACI as SimSig's does. The sleeper is pretty much handled manually (in terms of signalling) in real life. Sometimes people's expectations are a little high of ARS...

SimSig Boss
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Edinburgh v5 issues. 01/08/2020 at 19:04 #130276
Hap
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GeoffM in post 130274 said:
bill_gensheet in post 130237 said:
The other cautionary note is that ACI is never going to keep up with this amount of splitting and joining, and may well result in misleading TD's showing.
Of course, you have to bear in mind, in real life the ARS does not handle anywhere near as much ACI as SimSig's does. The sleeper is pretty much handled manually (in terms of signalling) in real life. Sometimes people's expectations are a little high of ARS...
Yup, If you are up Late/Early enough, you can watch on traksy and see a lot of manual head code input from the signaller.

HAP
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Edinburgh v5 issues. 02/08/2020 at 16:31 #130297
Steamer
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Woodhead Signalman in post 130203 said:
Hi, I just had a phone call from a 'shunter' which asked me if i wanted to let 6S01 run 15 minutes earlier than booked from the Berwick-on-Tweed direction. Shouldn't I have the got the call from the signaller at Berwick-on-Tweed signal box, not a 'shunter'? Looks like possibly a glitch in the code somewhere. Thanks for attention in this matter. Alan.
Ta, Mantis #31261 raised.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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