Upcoming Games

Upcoming Events

We are not planning any more in-person events until the COVID-19 situation has improved.

Piccadilly ARS heritage timetables

You are here: Home > Forum > Simulations > Timetables > Manchester Piccadilly > Piccadilly ARS heritage timetables

Page 1 of 1

Piccadilly ARS heritage timetables 01/09/2020 at 17:43 #131199
whatlep
Avatar
278 posts
Users of the Piccadilly "heritage" timetables (1969 - 1996) will be aware that they do not work under Piccadilly V2.0, the ARS/ACI equipped version of that simulation. ARS (and ACI) were never installed in Manchester Piccadilly PSB or its predecessor, London Road PSB, so it is historically inaccurate, but I understand that creating an ARS version was a commerical decision and respect that.

If you are fortunate enough to have a backup copy of the previous version of Piccadilly (v1.4), that can co-exist with v2.0 in your SimSig directory and the heritage timetables will continue to work perfectly with the older version.

ARS versions of the heritage timetables are now being looked at. In many cases, it is a case of adding (unnecessary) extra information, or specifying platform numbers where the WTTs were silent. In other areas, ARS will force choices to be documented (e.g. routings in and out of Piccadilly) which were historically left to the signalling staff's discretion.

While the new versions will be ARS compliant, the default mode is ARS disabled and users are STRONGLY advised not to rely on ARS when operating the Piccadilly panels. ARS works better on the northern half of the simulation (the lines to/from Manchester Victoria), but there are some issues there too. In short, go for a realistic approach and disable ARS/ACI for the heritage timetables!

As far as I can see, adapting timetables to ARS's requirements gets progressively harder with distance in time, as operations diverge ever more from today's "grown up tramway" mode of operation. So expect 1996 first and older timetables last, though that will depend on whatver problems are encountered.

The current status (Sept 1st) for ARS versions of the timetables is:
1996 - submitted for Mod approval
1993 - looked at: will require serious work to derive platform numbers at M/cr Airport (none given in the WTTs)
1991 - submitted for Mod approval
1989 - should be ready within one week
1977 (Weekday) - not yet started
1977 (Summer Saturday) - not yet started
1971 - not yet started
1969 (Weekday) - looked at: some required routes missing from ARS
1969 (Summer Saturday) - not yet started

Log in to reply
Piccadilly ARS heritage timetables 01/09/2020 at 17:59 #131202
GeoffM
Avatar
5275 posts
In the last few days I've been working on Man Picc and on at least one of Whatlep's TTs there are no longer any issues at all.

Whatlep, you'll be getting a beta copy of the sim soon.

SimSig Boss
Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: whatlep
Piccadilly ARS heritage timetables 19/09/2020 at 17:07 #132607
whatlep
Avatar
278 posts
GeoffM in post 131202 said:
In the last few days I've been working on Man Picc and on at least one of Whatlep's TTs there are no longer any issues at all.

Whatlep, you'll be getting a beta copy of the sim soon.
An update for Piccadilly "heritage" timetable users.

Geoff supplied me with a beta version as promised and things look very good indeed. Once the new version of the Piccadilly simulation is available, ALL current heritage timetables will work in ARS-disabled mode and - from testing - seem to do so perfectly. Heritage timetables will NOT work with ARS-enabled, apart from the two already updated and available for download: those are 1991 & 1996.

Although the existing versions should work fine, I will probably issue new versions for the timetables, taking advantage of extra features introduced in the beta version and setting default scenario options, including, of course, ARS disabled.

My thanks to Geoff for his work. He has gone "above and beyond" to get these timetables and the simulation to work together.
Keep an eye out for the simulation update in due course.

Log in to reply
The following users said thank you: ajax103, WesternChampion, bossman
Piccadilly ARS heritage timetables 24/09/2020 at 13:21 #132663
whatlep
Avatar
278 posts
The new version of Piccadilly (V2.2) is now available and should be downloaded automatically to your PC. Almost all the heritage timetables previously available should now work with V2.2, but ONLY with ARS disabled. There are some exceptions. The 1991 & 1996 timetables most recently released will work with ARS enabled, though that is not recommended. The 1989 V2.0 set require additional location information added to trains off the Liverpool route to be ARS compatible (even if that feature is disabled).

New versions of the heritage timetables will be released, setting start-up options appropriately for each era and disabling ARS by default. Any extra moves permitted by the new version or previous issues now fixed will also get attention. At the moment, I am not planning to release an updated version of the 1989 Oxford Road subset timetable unless there is user demand for it

Please check for new downloads. All will be dated 24/09/2020 and V2.0, except for the 1989 set which will be V3.0.

Last edited: 24/09/2020 at 17:02 by whatlep
Reason: None given

Log in to reply
The following users said thank you: Phil-jmw, ozrail
Piccadilly ARS heritage timetables 24/09/2020 at 21:35 #132677
Phil-jmw
Avatar
551 posts
whatlep in post 132663 said:
The new version of Piccadilly (V2.2) is now available and should be downloaded automatically to your PC. Almost all the heritage timetables previously available should now work with V2.2, but ONLY with ARS disabled. There are some exceptions. The 1991 & 1996 timetables most recently released will work with ARS enabled, though that is not recommended. The 1989 V2.0 set require additional location information added to trains off the Liverpool route to be ARS compatible (even if that feature is disabled).

New versions of the heritage timetables will be released, setting start-up options appropriately for each era and disabling ARS by default. Any extra moves permitted by the new version or previous issues now fixed will also get attention. At the moment, I am not planning to release an updated version of the 1989 Oxford Road subset timetable unless there is user demand for it

Please check for new downloads. All will be dated 24/09/2020 and V2.0, except for the 1989 set which will be V3.0.
Am I right in thinking that if players retained Man Picc v1.4 for running the heritage TT's (as I have) that they can continue to do so?

Log in to reply
Piccadilly ARS heritage timetables 25/09/2020 at 02:29 #132681
whatlep
Avatar
278 posts
Phil-jmw in post 132677 said:
whatlep in post 132663 said:
The new version of Piccadilly (V2.2) is now available and should be downloaded automatically to your PC. Almost all the heritage timetables previously available should now work with V2.2, but ONLY with ARS disabled. There are some exceptions. The 1991 & 1996 timetables most recently released will work with ARS enabled, though that is not recommended. The 1989 V2.0 set require additional location information added to trains off the Liverpool route to be ARS compatible (even if that feature is disabled).

New versions of the heritage timetables will be released, setting start-up options appropriately for each era and disabling ARS by default. Any extra moves permitted by the new version or previous issues now fixed will also get attention. At the moment, I am not planning to release an updated version of the 1989 Oxford Road subset timetable unless there is user demand for it

Please check for new downloads. All will be dated 24/09/2020 and V2.0, except for the 1989 set which will be V3.0.
Am I right in thinking that if players retained Man Picc v1.4 for running the heritage TT's (as I have) that they can continue to do so?
It is certainly possible to have V1.4 and V2.2 of Piccadilly co-exist in your SimSig directory and for each to work. I would point out that V2.2 has some features that V1.4 does not have, including a fuller display of the Altrincham branch (handy in rush hours) and the ability to reverse trains at Ordsall Lane (LOS/ MP542). The latter is required by several of the revised timetables.

Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: Phil-jmw
Piccadilly ARS heritage timetables 25/09/2020 at 23:35 #132690
Phil-jmw
Avatar
551 posts
whatlep in post 132681 said:
Phil-jmw in post 132677 said:
whatlep in post 132663 said:
The new version of Piccadilly (V2.2) is now available and should be downloaded automatically to your PC. Almost all the heritage timetables previously available should now work with V2.2, but ONLY with ARS disabled. There are some exceptions. The 1991 & 1996 timetables most recently released will work with ARS enabled, though that is not recommended. The 1989 V2.0 set require additional location information added to trains off the Liverpool route to be ARS compatible (even if that feature is disabled).

New versions of the heritage timetables will be released, setting start-up options appropriately for each era and disabling ARS by default. Any extra moves permitted by the new version or previous issues now fixed will also get attention. At the moment, I am not planning to release an updated version of the 1989 Oxford Road subset timetable unless there is user demand for it

Please check for new downloads. All will be dated 24/09/2020 and V2.0, except for the 1989 set which will be V3.0.
Am I right in thinking that if players retained Man Picc v1.4 for running the heritage TT's (as I have) that they can continue to do so?
It is certainly possible to have V1.4 and V2.2 of Piccadilly co-exist in your SimSig directory and for each to work. I would point out that V2.2 has some features that V1.4 does not have, including a fuller display of the Altrincham branch (handy in rush hours) and the ability to reverse trains at Ordsall Lane (LOS/ MP542). The latter is required by several of the revised timetables.
Ok thanks Peter. I'll run the update and download the revised timetables.

Log in to reply
Piccadilly ARS heritage timetables 26/09/2020 at 01:40 #132691
postal
Avatar
4374 posts
Online
whatlep in post 132681 said:
It is certainly possible to have V1.4 and V2.2 of Piccadilly co-exist in your SimSig directory and for each to work.
If you want to differentiate between them you can rename them using a semi-colon as an escape character so you might have manchesterpiccadilly;v1.4.sim and manchesterpiccadilly;v2.2.sim. At one stage that stopped the splash screens showing while the sim was loading; not sure if that still happens but not a big price to pay.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: bill_gensheet
Piccadilly ARS heritage timetables 26/09/2020 at 01:54 #132692
GeoffM
Avatar
5275 posts
Phil-jmw in post 132677 said:
Am I right in thinking that if players retained Man Picc v1.4 for running the heritage TT's (as I have) that they can continue to do so?
I don't understand why you would want to do this. The newer version of the sim works better with these heritage timetables.

SimSig Boss
Log in to reply
Piccadilly ARS heritage timetables 26/09/2020 at 11:46 #132695
Phil-jmw
Avatar
551 posts
GeoffM in post 132692 said:
Phil-jmw in post 132677 said:
Am I right in thinking that if players retained Man Picc v1.4 for running the heritage TT's (as I have) that they can continue to do so?
I don't understand why you would want to do this. The newer version of the sim works better with these heritage timetables.
Sorry Geoff, I didn't make myself clear. I meant running v1.4 with the previous versions of the heritage TT's, which would include the TT's that have not currently been re-written for sim v2.2. I've updated v2.0 to v2.2 to use the heritage TT's that have been re-written.

Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: GeoffM
Piccadilly ARS heritage timetables 26/09/2020 at 13:20 #132699
Splodge
Avatar
514 posts
4M53 has a Longsight DGL stopping location of MP93/401. Neither of those signals exist?
(1989 Whole Picture)

There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
Last edited: 26/09/2020 at 13:20 by Splodge
Reason: None given

Log in to reply
Piccadilly ARS heritage timetables 26/09/2020 at 17:27 #132707
GeoffM
Avatar
5275 posts
Splodge in post 132699 said:
4M53 has a Longsight DGL stopping location of MP93/401. Neither of those signals exist?
Oops, that should read MP94/301 (Mantis 0031603). It's the top line crossing the Longsight/Piccadilly workstation boundary labelled as Longsight Down Goods Loop ->.

SimSig Boss
Log in to reply
The following users said thank you: whatlep, Splodge
Piccadilly ARS heritage timetables 28/09/2020 at 00:52 #132764
whatlep
Avatar
278 posts
GeoffM in post 132707 said:
Splodge in post 132699 said:
4M53 has a Longsight DGL stopping location of MP93/401. Neither of those signals exist?
Oops, that should read MP94/301 (Mantis 0031603). It's the top line crossing the Longsight/Piccadilly workstation boundary labelled as Longsight Down Goods Loop ->.
That reminds me that now Longsight DGL is more closely defined as the section of line between MP94 & MP301, container trains in the heritage timetables due to reverse into/from Longsight Freightliner Depot (SimSig = Wheel Lathe) can now do so correctly without using Mayfield Loop. Timetables will be amended when I have time. The same feature makes traction changes for trains to Trafford Park more straightforward as the attaching loco no longer needs to be signalled past MP94 at danger.

Geoff - any chance of getting reversals at MP742 for container trains off the CLC Liverpool route into Trafford Park?

Log in to reply