Upperby Yard - runround operations

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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 17:12 #133627
mjkerr
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Carlisle 79-80 Mon
Start time 05:00

I chose a quiet time to start testing
However 5A18 has proven to be quite a challenge
I assumed it was a Class 08 hauling out of the yard
Detaching and drawing forward
This created 0A18
It can then be sent back to the yard
The Class 08 then becomes 0T29
However the graphics showed the Class 08 simply going back on to the front of the train
I then set a route to the station, nothing happened
I then set a route from the yard, as the Class 08 should have been there after the runround, nothing happened

Where did I go wrong?

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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 17:34 #133630
postal
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mjkerr in post 133627 said:
Carlisle 79-80 Mon
Start time 05:00

I chose a quiet time to start testing
However 5A18 has proven to be quite a challenge
I assumed it was a Class 08 hauling out of the yard
Detaching and drawing forward
This created 0A18
It can then be sent back to the yard
The Class 08 then becomes 0T29
However the graphics showed the Class 08 simply going back on to the front of the train
I then set a route to the station, nothing happened
I then set a route from the yard, as the Class 08 should have been there after the runround, nothing happened

Where did I go wrong?
You misread the TT.

At Upperby through goods line, 5A18FX has the actions:

1) DetachF 0T29/Trip29A
2) Join 0A18FX
3) Next train 5A18/5A18AFX.

5A18FO has similar actions but a different TT because the formation is slightly different.

If you then follow through the various linked TTs you should see that:

1) The ECS working is drawn out of Upperby CS and detaches 0T29 at the Penrith end of the train. The TT for 0T29 shows it is a Class 08 pilot.
2) 0A18 comes out of Upperby depot and joins the train. Since it has not the power of levitation it must join at the Upperby Depot/CS end of the train. The TT shows that this loco is LE t/w 5A18 (Cl.81-Cl.87). Therefore we are not taking part in a RR move.
3) Once 0A18 has joined, the train becomes 5A18AFX which is an ECS working into Citadel where there is a RR by the loco to form 1A18 to Euston.
4) The orphan Class 08 (0T29) then runs from the through goods line back into Upperby.

There are RR moves for some trains on the through goods line, but this is not one of them.

If your note is also correct that you started at your own time of 05:00 rather than the default 00:00 I would caution you to be very careful. All of the pilot and shunt workings are part of complicated chains going back to the start time of the TT. If you start at a time of your own choosing, any pilots which are off sim may not re-enter as the train previous in the chain has not run so the pilot cannot satisfy the TT rule that has been set to link the re-entry of the pilot to that previous train.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 06/11/2020 at 17:39 by postal
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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 17:37 #133631
mjkerr
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I decided to restart at 05:15, to concentrate on this only

I then noticed there is a second request from Upperby TMD, which is the loco that attaches to the rear

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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 17:42 #133632
jc92
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Its worth adding step 4 is done via the run round line, using ground frame 935 at upperby bridge jcn.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 17:43 #133633
mjkerr
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postal in post 133630 said:
If your note is also correct that you started at your own time of 05:00 rather than the default 00:00 I would caution you to be very careful

I am just testing at the moment
I knew there was an ECS movement around this time, so just to make sure I get this right

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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 17:44 #133634
mjkerr
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Odd, now 0T29 (which I assume is the Class 08) has disappeared
I set the route from the runround to the yard, but nothing happened
I then cancelled the route
Next was a message adverse signal
Silly me, a Class 08 is slow!

It is a shame 5A18 does not have a headcode once it has moved on to the Down Main
However, once in Platform one it shows up as xxxx

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Last edited: 06/11/2020 at 17:47 by mjkerr
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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 17:51 #133635
postal
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jc92 in post 133632 said:
Its worth adding step 4 is done via the run round line, using ground frame 935 at upperby bridge jcn.
Joe

Thanks. Forgot about that bit!

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 17:56 #133636
Steamer
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mjkerr in post 133634 said:

It is a shame 5A18 does not have a headcode once it has moved on to the Down Main
However, once in Platform one it shows up as xxxx
Per reality, there's no train describer at CE280 (Upperby Yard exit signal), you need to interpose the description yourself. The first opportunity is at CE275, on the Up Through Goods.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 18:10 #133637
mjkerr
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postal in post 133630 said:
3) Once 0A18 has joined, the train becomes 5A18AFX which is an ECS working into Citadel where there is a RR by the loco to form 1A18 to Euston.

There are RR moves for some trains on the through goods line, but this is not one of them.

This is the step I am now at
For some reason the loco did not want to take a route through the station (SB or SC)

I could not get the loco to accept any wrong line route

My first attempt I used SA
The obvious one was opposite CE, to then run back to Platform 1

My second attempt I used Platform 4
I then tried to get the loco on to the Down Main, again to run back to Platform 1

If I use any normal route the loco simply continues
For example on the Up Main and goes all the way to the next signal, and then reports route error

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Last edited: 06/11/2020 at 18:12 by mjkerr
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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 18:37 #133643
Steamer
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5A18 is booked to use P4, not P1.

The run-round loco (0A18) is booked to reverse behind CE295 at the south end, so you won't be able to get it onto P1 without editing the timetable to reverse behind a different signal (291 or 294, depending on which line you want to send it on).

If you read the timetables, 0A18 should detach from the front of the train in P4, reverse behind CE336, run through P3, reverse behind CE295 then drop back onto the train in P4.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Last edited: 06/11/2020 at 18:38 by Steamer
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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 18:57 #133644
postal
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The Carlisle 79-80 TT is challenging to say the least. The station is under pressure for many parts of the day due to the extra ECML trains as a result of the Penmanshiel tragedy. Any change to any of the TT'd moves/platforms/shunts or acceptance of trains in a different order to that expected by the TT will more than likely result in unforeseen consequences in the period following. You have posted two problems in this thread now where you have not followed the TT. You really would help yourself if you could make sure that you follow the plan laid out in the TT.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 19:38 #133645
mjkerr
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Steamer in post 133643 said:
5A18 is booked to use P4, not P1.
If you read the timetables, 0A18 should detach from the front of the train in P4, reverse behind CE336, run through P3, reverse behind CE295 then drop back onto the train in P4

There was no option to right click on the train as the headcode never appeared
I assumed Platform 1

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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 19:40 #133646
mjkerr
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postal in post 133644 said:
You really would help yourself if you could make sure that you follow the plan laid out in the TT

As above, I am only testing
All other trains are just left alone and ignored

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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 19:44 #133647
Steamer
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mjkerr in post 133645 said:
Steamer in post 133643 said:
5A18 is booked to use P4, not P1.
If you read the timetables, 0A18 should detach from the front of the train in P4, reverse behind CE336, run through P3, reverse behind CE295 then drop back onto the train in P4

There was no option to right click on the train as the headcode never appeared
I assumed Platform 1
As described above, you need to interpose the train descriptions at the appropriate time. Sticky notes are also helpful where train describer berth's aren't available, and the scratch pad provided at Carlisle.

mjkerr said:
As above, I am only testing
All other trains are just left alone and ignored
Fair enough, but you do still need to follow the plan for the trains you're practising on.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 23:16 #133654
mjkerr
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BINGO, Platform 4 works
Equally, I managed to get the train from the Yard to the Station and ready for departure (its next working) as expected

As previous, it is a few years since I last used this, I am using the free versions for testing (Carlisle is one of them)
This now does what I expect

Sadly I am left with a train in Platform 4 with no headcode, occupied
However it now has a loco at the correct end

This also explains why in the 1980s when I visited this station that southbound departures (from Currock Yard) were always from Platform 4 and not Platform 1

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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 23:18 #133655
mjkerr
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As much as I like the pre-installed timetables

Are there any for 1984 / 1985, in the period when Class 90 had just been introduced / before DVT?

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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 23:24 #133658
mjkerr
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I prefer to left click on a train (edited)
I now have the ECS from Upperby Yard, in Platform 4
How do I see the details for this?

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Upperby Yard - runround operations 06/11/2020 at 23:43 #133659
Steamer
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As I've said twice already, you need to interpose the train description. See here: https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack%3Aglossary%3Atdinterpose

You can show the timetable by left clicking the description, you don't need to right click and select it from the menu.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Last edited: 06/11/2020 at 23:44 by Steamer
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Upperby Yard - runround operations 07/11/2020 at 12:58 #133667
mjkerr
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Steamer in post 133659 said:
As I've said twice already, you need to interpose the train description

Apologies, I missed the first reply referring to Interpose

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Upperby Yard - runround operations 07/11/2020 at 15:06 #133669
mjkerr
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Steamer in post 133659 said:
You can show the timetable by left clicking the description, you don't need to right click and select it from the menu

Apologies, should be left click (edited)

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Upperby Yard - runround operations 07/11/2020 at 15:45 #133670
mjkerr
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Deleted, see below
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Last edited: 07/11/2020 at 15:52 by mjkerr
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Upperby Yard - runround operations 07/11/2020 at 15:51 #133671
mjkerr
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It was all going so well...

I am having a problem with the first CLST movement
Equally, I can work out F935
The F either just keeps flashing or is solid
I cannot return to the N position

As a result this CLST keeps entering the Run Round




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Upperby Yard - runround operations 07/11/2020 at 16:25 #133672
Steamer
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Per the timetable you've posted, the train just shunts onto the run round line, reverses, and goes back to Upperby Yard.

Ground Frame 395 is used for the points at the Penrith end of the run-round loop. See operation of lever frames here: https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:ssrun:lever_frames for details on how to lock and unlock them. With the points normal (as shown in your screenshot), right-click the F to lock it.

You don't need to operate the frame for the CLST move shown in your post, as it doesn't enter or exit the run round at that end.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Upperby Yard - runround operations 07/11/2020 at 16:36 #133673
mjkerr
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Steamer in post 133672 said:
Per the timetable you've posted, the train just shunts onto the run round line, reverses, and goes back to Upperby Yard

That makes sense, if a little odd!
On my previous two attempts the only route I could set was the Run Round
However this then remained occupied

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Upperby Yard - runround operations 07/11/2020 at 16:41 #133674
Steamer
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mjkerr in post 133673 said:
Steamer in post 133672 said:
Per the timetable you've posted, the train just shunts onto the run round line, reverses, and goes back to Upperby Yard

That makes sense, if a little odd!
It'll be shunting stock between lines in Upperby Yard, and needs to draw past the yard exit signal.

Quote:
On my previous two attempts the only route I could set was the Run Round
If 935 was unlocked, you won't be able to set a route onto the Through Goods. In any case, setting a route onto the run-round is correct.

Quote:
However this then remained occupied
You'll need to expand on that. Once CLST enters the run-round, set the route back into the yard and it'll move back within a minute or two.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Last edited: 07/11/2020 at 16:41 by Steamer
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