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Problem with Train Ready On Sim startup (Freights)

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Problem with Train Ready On Sim startup (Freights) 29/11/2020 at 10:22 #134245
phil1044
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Hi all,
I don't know if anyone else has had this problem, but I have found since the new loader, that freight trains which seed in a yard which is "on Sim" upon start up immediately either flash ready, or ring in that the train is ready to leave. Often many hours before the booked departure time.
I have seen this happen on timetables that I have created or in progress for LTS (at Ripple Lane West Yard), Leeds North-West (at Rylstone), West Yorkshire (at Milford West Sidings). This only seems to happen when a loco is already attached to a train.

Ticking the "must wait till dep time" isn't ideal, as freights often leave early, but I tried it on the Rylstone example and it didn't work anyway!
I've got round it in some cases by either creating a crew change prior to departure time (thanks for the idea Vince) or putting a dwell time in the departure time of the train so it waits for xx mins (or xx hours and mins) before ringing ready.

This now also happens on one of my pre-Loader 5 timetable for Leeds NW. where the freight seeding at Rylstone appears at signal 4039 asking for the road on start up, when it should be in the Rylstone Complex. Even the added dwell doesn't work in this case (save attached)

Any thoughts on this or if its a sim/core code fault can it be put on Mantis for attention please?

Thanks for any input folks

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Problem with Train Ready On Sim startup (Freights) 29/11/2020 at 13:59 #134246
bill_gensheet
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Maybe for historical data reasons, but some sims do allow entry at a siding that is not an exit, as well as arrivals and departures.
Means you do not have to seed those sidings at all.

Bill

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Problem with Train Ready On Sim startup (Freights) 29/11/2020 at 15:36 #134248
phil1044
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bill_gensheet in post 134246 said:
Maybe for historical data reasons, but some sims do allow entry at a siding that is not an exit, as well as arrivals and departures.
Means you do not have to seed those sidings at all.

Bill
Ah OK thanks for that Bill. I'll try that approach then.

Phil ....

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Problem with Train Ready On Sim startup (Freights) 29/11/2020 at 15:44 #134250
headshot119
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phil1044 in post 134248 said:
bill_gensheet in post 134246 said:
Maybe for historical data reasons, but some sims do allow entry at a siding that is not an exit, as well as arrivals and departures.
Means you do not have to seed those sidings at all.

Bill
Ah OK thanks for that Bill. I'll try that approach then.

Phil ....
It's only available in a very limited number of sims, none of which are the ones you are writing timetables for if my memory serves me correctly. I'd discourage use of these legacy features in new timetables (They've only been left in the sim data to support older timetables), seeding at signals should work in all sidings whether or not they're an entry / exit, or captive to the sim.

It's well known that I don't really get too involved on the timetable side of things, and there's people like MELD and MarkC and others who I'll defer to on answering your original question in depth.

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Problem with Train Ready On Sim startup (Freights) 29/11/2020 at 17:22 #134253
MarkC
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Freight Services being able to leave early has always been a part of simsig, its nothing new in V5. if a freight train wants to leave early it is usually very soon after arriving at the stopping location it has arrived at and not a randon time between its arrival and timetabled depature time.

I have looked at LTS to the issues you have descibe with the train wanting to leave early I ran the sim 4 seperate times and had 2 trains wait till time and 2 that wanted to leave early, (used the 2015 TT for this)

As to Leeds NW I ran your TT quite a few times now and so far all but one has wanted to leave early, so the train leaving early or waiting to time appears to be a random thing.

The only things I can suggest you do 1) mark the train "must wait until dep time" which you have discounted or 2) set a long dwell time for the depature point.

I don't believe it is a a bug because as I have said the ability for a freight train to leave early has always been there.

It's not my fault! I was left unsupervised.
Last edited: 29/11/2020 at 17:50 by MarkC
Reason: None given

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Problem with Train Ready On Sim startup (Freights) 29/11/2020 at 18:04 #134254
pedroathome
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MarkC in post 134253 said:


As to Leeds NW I ran your TT quite a few times now and so far all but one has wanted to leave early, so the train leaving early or waiting to time appears to be a random thing.
Mark, Speaking as a non TT guy here, but looking at the attached save, there is a custom dwell time in Dwell time which I suspect is what's stopping the train from departing here, which is a comment made in the original post.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, the original query comes down to not needing to add in anything to prevent a train departing early?

James

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Problem with Train Ready On Sim startup (Freights) 29/11/2020 at 18:11 #134255
MarkC
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pedroathome in post 134254 said:
MarkC in post 134253 said:


As to Leeds NW I ran your TT quite a few times now and so far all but one has wanted to leave early, so the train leaving early or waiting to time appears to be a random thing.
Mark, Speaking as a non TT guy here, but looking at the attached save, there is a custom dwell time in Dwell time which I suspect is what's stopping the train from departing here, which is a comment made in the original post.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, the original query comes down to not needing to add in anything to prevent a train departing early?

James
I took the train out of the save and put in its own TT and removed the custon dwell times and had NO other options selected for the point of departure (TT I used is attached), apologies I should of stated that I removed the custom dwell time when I ran those tests.

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It's not my fault! I was left unsupervised.
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Problem with Train Ready On Sim startup (Freights) 29/11/2020 at 18:28 #134256
bill_gensheet
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The trains are held up by the activity of joining the loco, then behave normally (ie somteime leave early, sometimes not. In reality a parked up train would not have a crew in it, so crew change feels right anyway for starting out hours in.
For shorter waits, you can seed a train with only one timetable location and a NEXT to the actual train you want, and then you will either get early or right time as usual and can set up more controls.

You should also be able to set a dwell on the seed train terminating, and a 'crew arrive at' and 'duration' box too for the NEXT, but I don't think they are working OK, at least in these circumstances.
(Mantis 15591, 24402 and 31269 may be relevant, or this might change depending on how they need fixing)

Dwell works if applied to the 'real' trains and you can apply rules from SEED to REAL.

Rylstone looks rather different, as a seeded train starts off heading 'UP' at the buffers, and as soon as you reverse it it comes down the branch despite a time at Rylstone.

LTS tests attached.

Bill

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Problem with Train Ready On Sim startup (Freights) 29/11/2020 at 18:40 #134257
phil1044
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Thanks for the replies everyone, I'll experiment further tomorrow with all the ideas so far on the thread and see what works out best for my timetables .

Phil ...

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Problem with Train Ready On Sim startup (Freights) 29/11/2020 at 19:05 #134258
clive
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bill_gensheet in post 134246 said:
Maybe for historical data reasons, but some sims do allow entry at a siding that is not an exit, as well as arrivals and departures.
Means you do not have to seed those sidings at all.
Usually it was there because the sim predates seeding. It's something I'll be removing when I convert Cambridge and Drain to loader.

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Problem with Train Ready On Sim startup (Freights) 29/11/2020 at 20:10 #134259
DaveHarries
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clive in post 134258 said:
Usually it was there because the sim predates seeding. It's something I'll be removing when I convert Cambridge and Drain to loader.

I will look forward to the conversion of Cambridge, hopefully with addition of Cambridge North, whenever that might be.
Dave

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Problem with Train Ready On Sim startup (Freights) 30/11/2020 at 20:52 #134291
clive
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DaveHarries in post 134259 said:
clive in post 134258 said:
Usually it was there because the sim predates seeding. It's something I'll be removing when I convert Cambridge and Drain to loader.

I will look forward to the conversion of Cambridge, hopefully with addition of Cambridge North, whenever that might be.
Dave
Don't hold your breath. The initial conversion of Cambridge will be the original sim with the minimum changes needed to make it work on the Loader.

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