Upcoming Games


Full list
Add a game

Upcoming Events

No events to display

We are not planning any more in-person events until the COVID-19 situation has improved.

1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long?

You are here: Home > Forum > Simulations > Released > Central Scotland > 1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long?

Page 1 of 1

1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 11/01/2021 at 14:51 #136236
bugsy
Avatar
933 posts
Playing the 15-10-09 timetable and 1R72 was delayed at Falkirk High at 13:49 with an approximate departure time of 14:00. It's now 14:18 and it is still standing there with two trains waiting behind it. It's unusual for a train to be held up for so long after the expected departure time.
So, do I just have to be more patient and wait, or is something amiss?
...


Post has attachments. Log in to view them.
Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 11/01/2021 at 15:01 #136237
jc92
Avatar
3220 posts
Did you cause an ACOA by also putting the signal back on it without permission or outside of the 5 minute limit? There was a recent thread where this happened and the two phone calls raced each other resulting in a train sitting delayed for hours.
Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 11/01/2021 at 15:12 #136238
Dionysusnu
Avatar
132 posts
jc92 in post 136237 said:
Did you cause an ACOA by also putting the signal back on it without permission or outside of the 5 minute limit? There was a recent thread where this happened and the two phone calls raced each other resulting in a train sitting delayed for hours.
Correction, no, that was not the cause of that other thread. Only something done later on in an attempt to get the train moving.
Thread link: https://www.simsig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/52669

As usual with issues, it'd be helpful if you attached a savegame!

Last edited: 11/01/2021 at 15:14 by Dionysusnu
Reason: None given

Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: jc92
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 11/01/2021 at 15:19 #136239
bugsy
Avatar
933 posts
jc92 in post 136237 said:
Did you cause an ACOA by also putting the signal back on it without permission or outside of the 5 minute limit? There was a recent thread where this happened and the two phone calls raced each other resulting in a train sitting delayed for hours.
No. I chose to leave the signal off as I saw no point in doing otherwise. Anyway, it's status has changed now because I abandoned the timetable. Then I got a message for the driver to speak to control before moving, followed by advice that the driver was on the telephone. Eventually 1R72 proceeded towards Polmont Junction at which point I reinstated the timetable.
Whatever the problem was, this sorted things out although several trains have been delayed.

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 11/01/2021 at 16:10 #136240
Dionysusnu
Avatar
132 posts
bugsy in post 136239 said:
Then I got a message for the driver to speak to control before moving, followed by advice that the driver was on the telephone.

That means the driver did receive an ACOA. Do you remember what the aspect was when the driver called you to report the delay? Was it red, or was it a proceed aspect? If the latter, which answer did you give him?

Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 11/01/2021 at 16:20 #136241
bugsy
Avatar
933 posts
Dionysusnu in post 136238 said:
jc92 in post 136237 said:
Did you cause an ACOA by also putting the signal back on it without permission or outside of the 5 minute limit? There was a recent thread where this happened and the two phone calls raced each other resulting in a train sitting delayed for hours.
Correction, no, that was not the cause of that other thread. Only something done later on in an attempt to get the train moving.
Thread link: https://www.simsig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/52669

As usual with issues, it'd be helpful if you attached a savegame!
Sorry, but I didn't think that it would be necessary. However, I've attached a save at 14:40

Post has attachments. Log in to view them.
Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 11/01/2021 at 17:01 #136243
Dionysusnu
Avatar
132 posts
bugsy in post 136241 said:

Sorry, but I didn't think that it would be necessary. However, I've attached a save at 14:40
It may also help if you've got the snapshot at 14:00

Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 11/01/2021 at 17:01 #136244
jc92
Avatar
3220 posts
It does sound like he received an ACOA from G to YY if the signals at Polmont were replaced. Otherwise you wouldn't get a control phone call.
Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 11/01/2021 at 17:06 #136247
Ray
Avatar
177 posts
If a train hangs around too long, I set the train without a timetable to get it on the move then I reset the same timetable and edit its next stop point. Its a cheat but life is too short to get a train to gum up the works.
Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 11/01/2021 at 19:07 #136255
bugsy
Avatar
933 posts
Ray in post 136247 said:
If a train hangs around too long, I set the train without a timetable to get it on the move then I reset the same timetable and edit its next stop point. Its a cheat but life is too short to get a train to gum up the works.
Yes, that's what I did as per my post above.

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 11/01/2021 at 19:32 #136257
bugsy
Avatar
933 posts
Dionysusnu in post 136243 said:
bugsy in post 136241 said:

Sorry, but I didn't think that it would be necessary. However, I've attached a save at 14:40
It may also help if you've got the snapshot at 14:00
Just for the record, I have just re-run from the 14:00 saved game and straight away I got a phone call telling me that 1R72 is ready to depart. This is something that I definitely don't recall happening the first time around. I don't see how you can answer a call without seeing what the call is about, ignore it and then hang up. If I had done that, would the train just depart anyway or stay put?

I've often read that a given situation sometimes cannot be replicated from an earlier save and wonder if this is such an occasion.

Having said that, I have attached the 14:00 save anyway but would be surprised if it behaved differently to the one that I just ran.

Oh well, sorry if I've wasted anyone's time.

Post has attachments. Log in to view them.
Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 11/01/2021 at 19:50 #136258
bugsy
Avatar
933 posts
There's something odd going on here as very shortly after the call about 1R72 being ready to depart, I got another call saying that if had an Adverse Change of Aspect. Maybe I missed something.

Anyway, I'm going to play it through from 13:50 and watch very closely. Will post my findings.

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 11/01/2021 at 20:09 #136261
Dionysusnu
Avatar
132 posts
bugsy in post 136258 said:
There's something odd going on here as very shortly after the call about 1R72 being ready to depart, I got another call saying that if had an Adverse Change of Aspect. Maybe I missed something.

Anyway, I'm going to play it through from 13:50 and watch very closely. Will post my findings.
I think by now we can narrow this bug down to "train getting unexpected ACOA while delayed". I'm going to refer to my earlier question which you seem to have overlooked:
Dionysusnu in post 136240 said:
Do you remember what the aspect was when the driver called you to report the delay? Was it red, or was it a proceed aspect? If the latter, which of the two answers did you give him?

Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 11/01/2021 at 20:10 #136262
bugsy
Avatar
933 posts
jc92 in post 136244 said:
It does sound like he received an ACOA from G to YY if the signals at Polmont were replaced. Otherwise you wouldn't get a control phone call.
Yep. Played it through again and that's what I must have done to allow one or both of two trains that I didn't want to delay. I looked at signals 504 and 508 and forgot that cancelling 508 would also cause 504 to revert to red.

Once again, sorry to have reported something that was my mistake all along

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 11/01/2021 at 20:11 #136263
Dionysusnu
Avatar
132 posts
bugsy in post 136262 said:
jc92 in post 136244 said:
It does sound like he received an ACOA from G to YY if the signals at Polmont were replaced. Otherwise you wouldn't get a control phone call.
Yep. Played it through again and that's what I must have done to allow one or both of two trains that I didn't want to delay. I looked at signals 504 and 508 and forgot that cancelling 508 would also cause 504 to revert to red.

Once again, sorry to have reported something that was my mistake all along
It's not entirely your mistake, because even if you did cause the ACOA, a train should not get stuck, but instead finish the delay and then report the ACOA.

Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 11/01/2021 at 20:34 #136265
bugsy
Avatar
933 posts
Dionysusnu in post 136263 said:
bugsy in post 136262 said:
jc92 in post 136244 said:
It does sound like he received an ACOA from G to YY if the signals at Polmont were replaced. Otherwise you wouldn't get a control phone call.
Yep. Played it through again and that's what I must have done to allow one or both of two trains that I didn't want to delay. I looked at signals 504 and 508 and forgot that cancelling 508 would also cause 504 to revert to red.

Once again, sorry to have reported something that was my mistake all along
It's not entirely your mistake, because even if you did cause the ACOA, a train should not get stuck, but instead finish the delay and then report the ACOA.
Ah, I wondered as much.

However, things have just got a bit more interesting. I have restarted the sim from my 13:50 save and was expecting a phone call very shortly after 14:00 (literally a few seconds) to say that 1R72 was now ready to depart which was what happened when I played the 14:00 save. However, no such phone call has been received and it's got to 14:05 so I can now see why I change the signals at Polmont Jn.

So, I have now attached both the 13:50 and 14:00 saves for those who want to have a little play and see if they have the same results as I did.

Edit: I've just changed the signals at Polmont Jn. to allow the passage of a couple of trains and caused the ACOA. But no phone call from the driver!

Edit 2: As soon as I abandoned the timetable, its F2 status changed to "on the telephone"

Post has attachments. Log in to view them.
Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
Last edited: 11/01/2021 at 20:45 by bugsy
Reason: 2nd Comment added

Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 11/01/2021 at 22:23 #136268
jc92
Avatar
3220 posts
I've logged this on mantis as 32790 for investigation as we've now seen this on two separate sims.
Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: bugsy
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 13/01/2021 at 15:40 #136351
Dionysusnu
Avatar
132 posts
I am yet to replicate this myself in testing. It seems like there are some extra conditions to be met before the bug actually occurs.

- train delayed with red in front
- answer only option "Ok, train delayed"
- put signal to green
- ACOA signal to red
- train calls in when delay is finished

- train delayed with proceed in front
- answer "no, signal will not be replaced"
- ACOA signal to red or yellow
- train calls in when delay is finished
- answer "yes, signal will be replaced"
- train expects replacement so ACOA not possible
- train calls in when delay is finished

Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 13/01/2021 at 15:42 #136352
Albert
Avatar
1023 posts
Online
What about causing an ACOA before answering the call?
AJP in games
Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 13/01/2021 at 16:41 #136360
bugsy
Avatar
933 posts
I think that I might be able to recall what I did to cause this so I'm running the sim again from the 13:40 save to see if I can replicate the situation before posting what the order of events was.
Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 13/01/2021 at 17:10 #136362
bugsy
Avatar
933 posts
Well that didn't work because I didn't get a phone call about a delay from 1R72 this time.
Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 16/01/2021 at 19:09 #136463
Dionysusnu
Avatar
132 posts
Possibly related, I've just had an infinite delay without any ACOA to the delayed train. 2F11 at Enfield Chase was supposed to depart at 12:30.

I have one possible cause/analysis from my own programming perspective, which is that this is from a broken snapshot file. Also attached.
When a snapshot should be made, the game will set the mouse icon to the blue circle "processing" to indicate it is saving the snapshot. However, if you then leave the game in fast-forward mode, simsig does not create the snapshot, but waits for fast-forward to end. This seems to me to be caused by overload, because the game isn't running at full speed in such a large simulation as Kings Cross. The snapshot task is low priority and therefore postponed. Then, in that period of time between 12:30 and the actual snapshot being made, the train's delay likely finished. So the scheduled "delay finished" call gets removed from the save file, but the train's state is still saved from 12:30, which is delayed. This means the delay never finishes. Sorry for the large amount of speculation in that, but I believe something similar to that is what happened.

Post has attachments. Log in to view them.
Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? 17/01/2021 at 14:13 #136500
Trainfan344
Avatar
240 posts
I've attached a couple of saves from Manchester Piccadilly, 2H09 phoned in at 15:11 saying delayed until 15:20, It's now 16:28 and it hasn't moved. I've attached the save at 15:20 where if you run the sim the train phones in, and a save at 15:22 where if you run the sim the train doesn't phone in.
Post has attachments. Log in to view them.
Log in to reply
1R72 delayed at Falkirk High, but for how long? Yesterday at 19:18 #136717
Dionysusnu
Avatar
132 posts
Just posting this here if it's any use, causing an ACOA before a train arrives at a station and coincidentally gets delayed, does not cause the bug. Save attached.
Post has attachments. Log in to view them.
Log in to reply