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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades

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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 01/03/2021 at 14:22 #137532
chrisdmadd
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Ok so this may be a duplicate idea of the recent Kings Cross Covid TT suggestion but this one certainly comes with a twist.

It’s going to replicate the Easter Friday Kings cross platform blockade. (Which is in force as of today)

With LNER, Thames link and Grand Central all running services into kings cross but with only platforms 7-11 available (only 2 platforms for LNER) this could make for interesting play.

Look out for further updates.

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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 02/03/2021 at 14:37 #137545
DavidSplett
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Excellent news. I still have a September 2020 (Covid) and December 2020 KX timetables under test. They're both completed, however due to domestic issues I haven't had much if any time to test them. The Covid one should be released shortly, however December 2020 will be a while yet.

I'm not sure if this is something that's easily able to be done, however the December 2020 timetable runs with a block taken for King's Cross platform 0. Would this be able to be considered to be added as a scenario in any future KX sim version? Presumably same could be done for the platform 0-6 closure now in force. Just a thought, if it's something the developers would be able to consider.

Last edited: 02/03/2021 at 14:40 by DavidSplett
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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 02/03/2021 at 15:15 #137546
Dionysusnu
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If you're feeling sadistical, run this TT with the gasworks tunnels scenario. Should be some good fun.
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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 02/03/2021 at 23:29 #137560
chrisdmadd
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What id do in that case (and what i will do with this TT) is put notes out to say you must block platform 0 with a T3 possession using the incident manager in game.

With my TT im planning on including a document which tells you which lines and platforms to block before carrying out this TT.

In response to the Gasworks tunnel scenario being used you simply couldnt do that but the Fast Lines are currently closed. So its 2 lines in and 2 lines out with 5 platforms.

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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 03/03/2021 at 15:49 #137570
clive
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DavidSplett in post 137545 said:

I'm not sure if this is something that's easily able to be done, however the December 2020 timetable runs with a block taken for King's Cross platform 0. Would this be able to be considered to be added as a scenario in any future KX sim version? Presumably same could be done for the platform 0-6 closure now in force. Just a thought, if it's something the developers would be able to consider.
I have no power to do that for King's Cross, but my long-term plans include adding the ability for a timetable author to create things like blockages.

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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 14/04/2021 at 12:00 #138586
chrisdmadd
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Here is the manual that will accompany the Timetable, further edits will take place but here’s something to wet your appetite.

Complete with engineering possession information and TSRs should you wish to include these.

It’s a real guide to the goings on for this Fridays Timetable.

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Last edited: 14/04/2021 at 12:26 by chrisdmadd
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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 14/04/2021 at 18:20 #138596
bri2808
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This looks truly fun... But I have previous with getting in a muddle with setting up possessions etc. I assume that this cannot not be built in so that when you load up the timetable they are in place? If not, I guess I will have to learn fast because I would love to give this a spin
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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 14/04/2021 at 20:58 #138615
chrisdmadd
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bri2808 in post 138596 said:
This looks truly fun... But I have previous with getting in a muddle with setting up possessions etc. I assume that this cannot not be built in so that when you load up the timetable they are in place? If not, I guess I will have to learn fast because I would love to give this a spin
As mentioned earlier there is no way for me as a TT writer to have this load as a scenario. It would need to be the sim developer i think.

It does take a while to impliment all the engineering possessions but you dont need them all really.

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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 15/04/2021 at 09:11 #138626
Sacro
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chrisdmadd in post 138615 said:
bri2808 in post 138596 said:
This looks truly fun... But I have previous with getting in a muddle with setting up possessions etc. I assume that this cannot not be built in so that when you load up the timetable they are in place? If not, I guess I will have to learn fast because I would love to give this a spin
As mentioned earlier there is no way for me as a TT writer to have this load as a scenario. It would need to be the sim developer i think.

It does take a while to impliment all the engineering possessions but you dont need them all really.
Could you not seed a train into the platform to occupy it, then have it set to depart after 48 hours or something?

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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 15/04/2021 at 10:18 #138630
postal
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Sacro in post 138626 said:
Could you not seed a train into the platform to occupy it, then have it set to depart after 48 hours or something?
Nice one.

Bit of testing and you don't need to put any times in at all. Create a TT with the seeding location of platform whatever and a first entry in the TT of that location with no times. When the sim opens that train has a little shuffle then sits down at the end of its TT as "Terminated, no more timetable trips". You can minimise the shuffle if you set the seeding gap to 1. TT to show P8 at KGX blockaded attached.

Edit: Only works at key locations so needs a bit more thinking to see if it can be made to work for something like a Gasworks Tunnel blockade.

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“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 15/04/2021 at 10:23 by postal
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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 15/04/2021 at 13:18 #138632
Dionysusnu
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Do trains have a maximum length? If not, you could make a train so long that its tail will be just past Holloway South on the FL, and its engine at the buffer stops of platform 6.
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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 15/04/2021 at 14:27 #138636
postal
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Dionysusnu in post 138632 said:
Do trains have a maximum length? If not, you could make a train so long that its tail will be just past Holloway South on the FL, and its engine at the buffer stops of platform 6.
Done a couple of quick tests and it will probably work for Kings Cross but there are pitfalls depending on the individual circumstances.

In some cases, seed trains are truncated. This problem was raised a while ago (Mantis 0015307, 13/05/2016). The reason for the truncation was explained as, "The train will extend back as far as the pointwork will allow. The "truncated" message only occurs if the train attempts to seed over facing (in the train's direction) points set the wrong way. In other words, you'll only get this message if the train would otherwise split a set of points. The idea was to warn the developer that they've seeded it somewhere impossible.". After some discussion it was decided that no further action would be taken as, "Experience since this ticket was raised shows that it's better to simply seed the train elsewhere.".

You can see it happening if (for example) you run any of the TUE to FRI Carlisle 1979 TTs where 4S50 is truncated by the core code to fit into the relevant platform at Carlisle on seeding.

It's a possible solution for the Kings Cross station area but not a panacea.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 15/04/2021 at 14:28 by postal
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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 15/04/2021 at 18:16 #138648
Dionysusnu
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postal in post 138636 said:
Dionysusnu in post 138632 said:
Do trains have a maximum length? If not, you could make a train so long that its tail will be just past Holloway South on the FL, and its engine at the buffer stops of platform 6.
Done a couple of quick tests and it will probably work for Kings Cross but there are pitfalls depending on the individual circumstances.

In some cases, seed trains are truncated. This problem was raised a while ago (Mantis 0015307, 13/05/2016). The reason for the truncation was explained as, "The train will extend back as far as the pointwork will allow. The "truncated" message only occurs if the train attempts to seed over facing (in the train's direction) points set the wrong way. In other words, you'll only get this message if the train would otherwise split a set of points. The idea was to warn the developer that they've seeded it somewhere impossible.". After some discussion it was decided that no further action would be taken as, "Experience since this ticket was raised shows that it's better to simply seed the train elsewhere.".

You can see it happening if (for example) you run any of the TUE to FRI Carlisle 1979 TTs where 4S50 is truncated by the core code to fit into the relevant platform at Carlisle on seeding.

It's a possible solution for the Kings Cross station area but not a panacea.

Truncating could be avoided by misusing an entry point, such as Hornsey EMU Depot.

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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 15/04/2021 at 18:57 #138652
postal
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Dionysusnu in post 138648 said:
postal in post 138636 said:
Dionysusnu in post 138632 said:
Do trains have a maximum length? If not, you could make a train so long that its tail will be just past Holloway South on the FL, and its engine at the buffer stops of platform 6.
Done a couple of quick tests and it will probably work for Kings Cross but there are pitfalls depending on the individual circumstances.

In some cases, seed trains are truncated. This problem was raised a while ago (Mantis 0015307, 13/05/2016). The reason for the truncation was explained as, "The train will extend back as far as the pointwork will allow. The "truncated" message only occurs if the train attempts to seed over facing (in the train's direction) points set the wrong way. In other words, you'll only get this message if the train would otherwise split a set of points. The idea was to warn the developer that they've seeded it somewhere impossible.". After some discussion it was decided that no further action would be taken as, "Experience since this ticket was raised shows that it's better to simply seed the train elsewhere.".

You can see it happening if (for example) you run any of the TUE to FRI Carlisle 1979 TTs where 4S50 is truncated by the core code to fit into the relevant platform at Carlisle on seeding.

It's a possible solution for the Kings Cross station area but not a panacea.

Truncating could be avoided by misusing an entry point, such as Hornsey EMU Depot.
Which is a totally different proposition to that which you originally proposed. There is no need to keep on coming back with different propositions just to prove that you can never be found wrong. I merely made the point that your original solution was not guaranteed to work and gave the reasons why so people would not take up the idea and then perhaps be disappointed. Perhaps you sometimes don't realise that lots of problems have been around for a long time and have probably been addressed already (although may be not with an answer your fertile imagination might bring forward).

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 15/04/2021 at 19:07 by postal
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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 15/04/2021 at 19:07 #138653
KymriskaDraken
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postal in post 138652 said:
Dionysusnu in post 138648 said:
postal in post 138636 said:
Dionysusnu in post 138632 said:
Do trains have a maximum length? If not, you could make a train so long that its tail will be just past Holloway South on the FL, and its engine at the buffer stops of platform 6.
Done a couple of quick tests and it will probably work for Kings Cross but there are pitfalls depending on the individual circumstances.

In some cases, seed trains are truncated. This problem was raised a while ago (Mantis 0015307, 13/05/2016). The reason for the truncation was explained as, "The train will extend back as far as the pointwork will allow. The "truncated" message only occurs if the train attempts to seed over facing (in the train's direction) points set the wrong way. In other words, you'll only get this message if the train would otherwise split a set of points. The idea was to warn the developer that they've seeded it somewhere impossible.". After some discussion it was decided that no further action would be taken as, "Experience since this ticket was raised shows that it's better to simply seed the train elsewhere.".

You can see it happening if (for example) you run any of the TUE to FRI Carlisle 1979 TTs where 4S50 is truncated by the core code to fit into the relevant platform at Carlisle on seeding.

It's a possible solution for the Kings Cross station area but not a panacea.

Truncating could be avoided by misusing an entry point, such as Hornsey EMU Depot.
Which is a totally different proposition to that which you originally proposed. There is no need to keep on coming back with different propositions just to prove that you can never be found wrong. I merely made the point that your original solution was not guaranteed to work and gave the reasons why so people would not take up the idea and then perhaps be disappointed. Of course, if you were to do the background work and cover all the options when you make a proposal, those of us who have already addressed the issues in the past would not need to point out the possible problems.
It just goes to show what a bore modern-day timetables are. The sim has to be restricted to make them even vaguely interesting.

Kev

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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 15/04/2021 at 22:52 #138661
DavidSplett
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KymriskaDraken in post 138653 said:
postal in post 138652 said:
Dionysusnu in post 138648 said:
postal in post 138636 said:
Dionysusnu in post 138632 said:
Do trains have a maximum length? If not, you could make a train so long that its tail will be just past Holloway South on the FL, and its engine at the buffer stops of platform 6.
Done a couple of quick tests and it will probably work for Kings Cross but there are pitfalls depending on the individual circumstances.

In some cases, seed trains are truncated. This problem was raised a while ago (Mantis 0015307, 13/05/2016). The reason for the truncation was explained as, "The train will extend back as far as the pointwork will allow. The "truncated" message only occurs if the train attempts to seed over facing (in the train's direction) points set the wrong way. In other words, you'll only get this message if the train would otherwise split a set of points. The idea was to warn the developer that they've seeded it somewhere impossible.". After some discussion it was decided that no further action would be taken as, "Experience since this ticket was raised shows that it's better to simply seed the train elsewhere.".

You can see it happening if (for example) you run any of the TUE to FRI Carlisle 1979 TTs where 4S50 is truncated by the core code to fit into the relevant platform at Carlisle on seeding.

It's a possible solution for the Kings Cross station area but not a panacea.

Truncating could be avoided by misusing an entry point, such as Hornsey EMU Depot.
Which is a totally different proposition to that which you originally proposed. There is no need to keep on coming back with different propositions just to prove that you can never be found wrong. I merely made the point that your original solution was not guaranteed to work and gave the reasons why so people would not take up the idea and then perhaps be disappointed. Of course, if you were to do the background work and cover all the options when you make a proposal, those of us who have already addressed the issues in the past would not need to point out the possible problems.
It just goes to show what a bore modern-day timetables are. The sim has to be restricted to make them even vaguely interesting.

Kev
This is an interesting comment! I’d say it depends. For King’s Cross, some of the Covid timetables are boring as hell - in some cases barely more than a Saturday service. I’ve never written a Saturday timetable for any sim for that very reason. Sundays are a better bet, as there tends to be oddities at the start and end of the day, plus engineering works, and the less dense service overall can make something like KX more manageable for a single player.

However, the fact is the Covid timetables are real, and real signallers have to take the rough with the smooth. In the case of the KX Feb 21 timetable, there are different challenges - in particular having to work everything in the right order, and short turn rounds meaning less margin for error.

I’d say that anything like KX or West Hampstead pre-Covid is anything but boring, lots of work to do even before failures are turned on, especially if you’re doing stuff to recover the service like turning short, unit step ups, etc. Likewise Merseyrail is certainly not boring when stuff is happening - how do you keep the Liverpool to Kirkby service running on time when there’s only bare minimum turnaround at both ends, and one end is a single platform stub and the other is a 2-platform 4tph through station. Definitely not boring (IMO). Personally I find too many loco shunts boring, but that’s personal taste.

Last edited: 15/04/2021 at 22:54 by DavidSplett
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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 16/04/2021 at 07:21 #138663
chrisdmadd
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KymriskaDraken in post 138653 said:


It just goes to show what a bore modern-day timetables are. The sim has to be restricted to make them even vaguely interesting.

Kev


I have to disagree, I think modern timetables tend to have more services and for me that’s more of a challenge with disruption. I know the 80s timetables have more ‘trains’ but a lot of these are run arounds etc. I like these timetables too but having the whole some jam packed with trains is more interesting for me and I feel the modern timetables tick the box for a lot of people.

This was created as I work on this route and I know what a nightmare these reduced platforms have been. It’s a one of a kind engineering project at the station and also it’s the last timetable that could actually be created and played on the current kings cross sim. I’m not a fan of covid timetables but this timetable has quite a decent number of services.

Trust me, if you play this alone or if you play it in multiplayer with failures on this is going to be a nice challenge! Hopefully not just vaguely interesting!

Last edited: 16/04/2021 at 07:31 by chrisdmadd
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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 16/04/2021 at 07:26 #138664
chrisdmadd
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postal in post 138630 said:
Sacro in post 138626 said:
Could you not seed a train into the platform to occupy it, then have it set to depart after 48 hours or something?
Nice one.

Bit of testing and you don't need to put any times in at all. Create a TT with the seeding location of platform whatever and a first entry in the TT of that location with no times. When the sim opens that train has a little shuffle then sits down at the end of its TT as "Terminated, no more timetable trips". You can minimise the shuffle if you set the seeding gap to 1. TT to show P8 at KGX blockaded attached.

Edit: Only works at key locations so needs a bit more thinking to see if it can be made to work for something like a Gasworks Tunnel blockade.
Thanks Sacro and Postal. I may try this so at least platforms 0-6 have a fully occupied track circuit. It had been suggested earlier that most of these lines would be showing with all their TCs occupied due to them all being disconnected anyway. I’ll have a play about with it!

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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 16/04/2021 at 13:45 #138691
chrisdmadd
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Sacro in post 138626 said:
chrisdmadd in post 138615 said:
bri2808 in post 138596 said:
This looks truly fun... But I have previous with getting in a muddle with setting up possessions etc. I assume that this cannot not be built in so that when you load up the timetable they are in place? If not, I guess I will have to learn fast because I would love to give this a spin
As mentioned earlier there is no way for me as a TT writer to have this load as a scenario. It would need to be the sim developer i think.

It does take a while to impliment all the engineering possessions but you dont need them all really.
Could you not seed a train into the platform to occupy it, then have it set to depart after 48 hours or something?
Tried this and its worked nicely.

Thanks


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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 28/04/2021 at 17:33 #139174
chrisdmadd
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Latest manual to go with the TT.

TT should be released early May.

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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 28/04/2021 at 19:25 #139178
bri2808
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Did the old manual have the method for adding the TSR's? Another thing I have never done before but fancy trying
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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 29/04/2021 at 10:33 #139199
y10g9
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There is information in the wiki (Here) about how a user can implement their own Temporary Speed Restrictions (TSR)
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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 29/04/2021 at 11:23 #139200
chrisdmadd
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I can add it to the manual.

The wiki is good but doesnt show how you find the Track Circuits youre after... to do this you just click the track circuits tab.... identify the TC's you want from here, then head back to the TSRs tab and select those TC's.

It is a bit of a faff on but once theyre in thats it for the whole save.

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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 29/04/2021 at 12:08 #139204
postal
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chrisdmadd in post 139200 said:
... to do this you just click the track circuits tab....
Think there's a typo and that should be "track sections" tab.

For those who haven't used the F11 option before, go to the Track Sections tab, click the little mouse icon at the top of the tab then click on the track section you wish to identify in the main view. The TC is then identified in the Track Section List for you. The same thing works for the signals and points tabs.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 29/04/2021 at 12:10 by postal
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Not another Kings Cross Timetable... KGX Platform Blockades 04/06/2021 at 19:53 #139881
bri2808
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chrisdmadd in post 139174 said:
Latest manual to go with the TT.

TT should be released early May.
Hate to ask, but how's this one progressing - Looking forward to trying it out

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