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A little Mock-SimSig Fun!

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 03/04/2022 at 23:45 #146015
JamesN
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ajax103 in post 146010 said:
Using the now withdrawn Cambridge simulation, I did a mockup of how it would look if directly converted to loader format with no changes being made to the simulation.

Many thanks to the developer of Cambridge for building Cambridge all those years ago!

I feel sorry for commuters from Cambridge travelling towards London – you appear to have removed their ability to get to Kings Cross...

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 04/04/2022 at 17:35 #146023
DaveHarries
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JamesN in post 146015 said:
ajax103 in post 146010 said:
Using the now withdrawn Cambridge simulation, I did a mockup of how it would look if directly converted to loader format with no changes being made to the simulation.

Many thanks to the developer of Cambridge for building Cambridge all those years ago!

I feel sorry for commuters from Cambridge travelling towards London – you appear to have removed their ability to get to Kings Cross...

Well spotted. On another note if (when) Cambridge is released as a Loader sim I hope it will include the stations at Cambridge North and Soham but whatever is released I will be happy with it.

Dave

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 04/04/2022 at 21:12 #146031
ajax103
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clive in post 146012 said:
Yes, Cambridge is being converted (very slowly) into Loader format.

Yes, it will be a single long sim, not a set of pages.

No, it won't look the same as that mock-up for a number of reasons.

No further details for now - you'll have to wait.
Which is why I stated that that's what it would look IF converted to loader format with NO changes to the simulation data, I am aware that Clive is busy with Cambridge but it gives some idea of the current simulation that's now withdrawn.

I do like the Cambridge simulation and I'm looking forward to the one in development.

JamesN in post 146015 said:
ajax103 in post 146010 said:
Using the now withdrawn Cambridge simulation, I did a mockup of how it would look if directly converted to loader format with no changes being made to the simulation.

Many thanks to the developer of Cambridge for building Cambridge all those years ago!

I feel sorry for commuters from Cambridge travelling towards London – you appear to have removed their ability to get to Kings Cross...
Opps, never noticed that before!!! *face palm*

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 04/04/2022 at 22:32 #146032
Sacro
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JamesN in post 146015 said:
ajax103 in post 146010 said:
Using the now withdrawn Cambridge simulation, I did a mockup of how it would look if directly converted to loader format with no changes being made to the simulation.

Many thanks to the developer of Cambridge for building Cambridge all those years ago!

I feel sorry for commuters from Cambridge travelling towards London – you appear to have removed their ability to get to Kings Cross...
Don't forget that Cambridge had a pilotman working scenario, that would solve it!

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 05/04/2022 at 10:02 #146038
ajax103
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Seeing as Feltham has been redesigned, I thought I share my mockup of North East Scotland if that too received the same treatment with a layout that's just as easy to navigate as the Feltham one is now, nothing has been changed apart from how the layout is presented.

Thanks goes to the North East Scotland developer for giving us the simulation.


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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 05/04/2022 at 11:59 #146039
Jan
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I haven't take a look at the re-drawn Feltham yet, so can't say how it compares to your interpretation of North East Scotland, but outside of Perth – Dundee it does rather waste quite a bit of vertical space and requires quite a bit more horizontal scrolling to take in the same area.
Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 05/04/2022 at 16:15 #146042
Newhampshires
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ajax103 in post 146038 said:
Seeing as Feltham has been redesigned, I thought I share my mockup of North East Scotland if that too received the same treatment with a layout that's just as easy to navigate as the Feltham one is now, nothing has been changed apart from how the layout is presented.

Thanks goes to the North East Scotland developer for giving us the simulation.

I want to take this opportunity to vent about how cumbersome the current layout of NE Scotland is. And yet, I am extremely grateful it's been developed as it covers a massive chunk of rail.

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 11/04/2022 at 22:03 #146100
elltrain3
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So this time a new take on an old mock it's a re-made Worcester!
Covering 13 Signal Boxes surrounding Worcester
I've also added all signal Numbers and lever frames for an 'authentic' operation!

The Boxes then in the 1st (and Earliest) era
First up it's Ledbury (Plated 'L')
The box here was built by the GWR on contract to Mckenzie & Holland to their Type 3 design, it was fitted with 40 Levers.
In 2008 the box had lost most branches and gained a lever 0. It controlled 2 semaphores: Up Starting 4, and Up Advanced Starting 5, it works Tokenless Block to Hereford and a unique form of lock and block to Malvern Wells, which functions like Absolute Block with a few small differences, though is unusual as when the line through Colwall Tunnel was singled the instrument was adapted to work on a single line which is as we see it here.

Next Up, Malvern Wells (Plated 'MV')
Sited at the bottom of the hills the box boats another 40 Lever frame and a very steam-era layout, the box retains a down goods loop (though
very little if any freight actually comes through here) and an Up siding the latter of which has barely been used. the box's main traffic flow is
services terminating at Great Malvern and coming to Malvern wells to reverse behind MV25/26.
The North East Scotland Bells have been used to avoid too much clutter.

Newland East (Plated 'NE')
Opened in 1900 by the GWR the box is one of those rare types on the modern network that has changed little since its opening it works AB
Both ways has 3 signals each way a small trailing crossover and a level crossing and bar colour light distants is a throwback to the olden days!

Next Up Henwick (Plated 'HK')
We now reach the outskirts of Worcester to find the 1875 M&H built Henwick, The box here has seen radical changes with the BR Rationalisation
coming in from Newland east we reach a fine splitting semaphore (HK2/4) plus the former Up Loop is now just a disused siding.
From here the 2 lines split and become Bi-Directional (prior to the 70s there was a junction at Rainbow Hill just past HK5 that sent trains both ways but since its abolition, the 2 lines became single track), the left-hand line is the "Droitwich" Lines towards Tunnel Junction with the other route being the "branch" to the main station at Shrub Hill both routes use direction levers (19/20) for accepting trains on both lines.
In the middle of the lines is Worcester Foregate Street which is the 2nd surviving station here.

We now jump Back to Droitwich Spa (Plated 'DS')
The box here is pure GWR and is a haven of mechanical signalling boasting a mighty 80 levers the box's area consists of a double junction plus goods
loops, it works AB to Hartlebury Signal box and AB to Tunnel Jn with TCB with direction levers towards Gloucester PSB.
Both goods loops see little use though are connected for occasional use if necessary, the box also features an IB (Intermidatte Block) signal towards
Tunnel Jn to shorten the block section, with this the box has a whopping 6 (7 Inc Distant) signals on the Up and 5 (6 Inc D) on the down! meaning
although simple it's far from easy!

Next is Tunnel Jn (Plated 'TJ')
Another Pure GWR Box built-in 1905 that overseas the junction to Henwick and Shrub Hill, another sizeable box of 60 levers showing that the
The Worcester area was once a lot more complex than it is now. Here at Tunnel Junction, we have the amazing Up Home bracket 2/7/22, controlling the
Jn, the UP main here is bi-directional with direction levers, again a case of BR giving some flexibility to the layout. we also see the through sidings leave us here which are essentially goods only lines avoiding the station, there is also an exit from Worcester LMD (The former shed) here, and use of shunt ahead arm TJ15 can be used for trains reversing.

Next is the biggie at Shrub Hill! (Station) (Plated 'SH')
At a Whopping 85 Levers this GWR Type 11 shows the amount of trackwork Worcester once had, and to an extent still does.
On the LH end we see the Bi-Di Up Main from tunnel junction arriving plus the AB worked Down Main, then the main exit from the LMD at SH25
plus the line from Henwick joining, we then reach the station itself with the impressive 3 way signal for the Down Platform and the only surviving
'Cash Register' Route indicator for Bi-Di departure from the Up Platform.
That end of the station was formerly controlled by a signal box named Shrub Hill Junction which closed in the 70s along with rainbow hill jn and Shrub
Hill Station took over, the middle siding was once 1 of 2 here and is used for stabling purposes. Signal 80, although shown as a disc, is a special signal
known as a 'Banjo' signal which is round in shape but acts as a main signal and is now Unique to Worcester allowing the platforms to be split into
'A' and 'B' ends, the layout also has a bay and bay siding to which a passenger train could leave but not arrive. Plus we have the station
sidings (D1/2) Used for motorail until its removal in the 80s.
We also see the Goods or 'Through' Lines re-join us at the former Wylde Lane Jn (another 70s Closure, Showing how big the railways in the area would have been!), and we also see the complex slotting of the north sidings GF released by 62/63 depending on the move required.

The 'Tail lamp GF' is another oddity which consists of 2 signals 'TL1' & 'TL2' which are in the 'OFF' position apart from when the sidings need to be accessed
in which case the GF can be released and levers normalized.

Next Up Is Norton Jn (Plated 'NJ')
A GWR Type 7a from 1908 that supervised the branch to Abbotswood Jn and Gloucester, though as part of the 70s re-signalling was 'rationalised'
and the line to Gloucester (the 'Branch' as the GW Saw it) remained double as the important route whereas the original 'Mainline' to oxford & Paddington
was singled almost all the way bar 1 double track section and the trailing crossover was converted to a single lead jn!
Tokens were also introduced to Evesham on that date and a token instrument was added on the platforms at Worcester in the 90s to avoid the Norton Jn
signaller stopping trains for tokens.

Following the GWR 'Main' Line we reach Evesham (Plated 'E')
Once an important junction for the Midland and GW alike once busy with trains from all kinda of places, though by the mid-50s the signal box and layout were inadequate so BR Built a replacement type 37e signal box in 1957 and was known simply as "Evesham W.R." To differentiate from Evesham "L.M.R" by the era we see it, the layout was a basic one the line was single both ways with tokens and the former station a passing loop. No distants were provided and the ex-transfer and goods yard alike were a set of 3 sidings little used.
The box also had a set of IB signals 'E100' and 'E200' to protect Littleton & Badsey AHB crossing.

Next is Moreton-In-Marsh (Plated 'MM')
A GWR Type 5 built-in 1885 and is the most complete of the boxes along this route, though the line is single to Evesham with tokens but AB to Ascott
The box has 2 IB signals for Campden and Blockley crossings MM101/102 & MM103/MM104 Respectively, the station area is largely complete for the
the steam era with a lot of unnecessary shunts and crossovers.
The box also has no distants due to the slow line speed and tokens.

Finally Its Ascott-Under-Wychwood (Plated 'AW')
This is another GWR Type 5 from 1883 and in this era wasn't at its best with only 6 levers out of 30 in use it was a sad time just a pair of IB's to protect Bruern AHB and a Home in one direction with Home and Starter (the only semaphore here) left on the Down, this is where the line singled for entry to Oxford PSB via the slot.


Things then changed again over the next few years,

In 2011 a MAJOR change happened over on the RHS of the sim, Network rail un-did the rationalisation of the 60/70s and re-doubled the full line
between Charlbury and Evesham! In the process, the 3 boxes were retained but modified.

Ascott-Under-Wychwood lost its frame to a new Nx Panel to control the new layout, the single line points were moved further out to Charlbury and turnback facilities were provided, outside the box the layout changes little, the 2 IB Signals 100 & 200 remained unchanged though the crossing was now a CCTV one, and even more, surprising the Absolute Block was retained to Moreton-In-Marsh from the same block instrument!

Moreton-In-Marsh also changed, the steam age layout was ripped out and the former 24 active levers were dropped to a mere 16 as the Up and down sidings were abolished through the up Refuge siding was retained for ECS, a new Down to Up Starter was commissioned (MM27) to allow turnback facilities and lever 24 was re-commissioned as an FPL for the former trailing crossover the 2 sets of IB signals (MM101,102/103,104) were also retained as both crossings were converted to CCTV ones, and after the re-doubling, the most remarkable thing was ABSOLUTE BLOCK was re-introduced on a new double-track line giving Moreton-in-Marsh a PAIR of block instruments, making it along with Newland East the only 2 boxes to have that claim in the entire area! Madness!

Next comes Evesham and the most complex of all, the former 70 Lever frame was replaced by a WR Turn Switch panel, and now controlled from Honeybourne and the connection to Long Marston and the test track there, through the new CCTV crossing at Littleton & Badsey and then into Evesham itself, the Sidings were abolished and due to the nature of an "upgrade" the token working was also abolished here and TCB with direction levers implemented.
The name board "Evesham W.R." still survives on the end of the box so at least a small part of the town's history survived!

The next change was over at Henwick, wherein 2018 Network rail re-layed the old Up siding and added some Track Circuits to it, plus provided signals HK 23 & 22 with a route indicator as the Up siding became a Turnback siding for GWR's New "IET" Class 800s after terminating at Worcester Foregate St, plus the Down Starting signal 21 Was also replaced, then the Up Home (2/4) Was modified as a distant arm was added to signal HK4 and the Droitwich Arm (HK2) made higher denoting it as the "Main" Route

the 3rd and final MAJOR change was at Malvern Wells
as part of an upgrade to the entire Worcester area, the turnback facilities here were modified, for starters, the Up siding was removed as were the unnecessary shunt discs, then the crossover (MV28) was moved further towards Newland east, placed in such a place the clearing point from Newland east was un-affected. the shunt ahead arm below MV4 was removed and re-added as an Advanced Started (MV5), the shunt back into the DGL (MV25) was also removed and all pointwork in the area re-layed plus a new LOS was added onto the DGL even though there wasn't a signalled move back onto it! at the same time, the unique Lock & Block was replaced by Conventional Tokenless block, the L&B instruments now being in the Kidderminster Railway Museum.

There were some minor changes too!
Hartlebury SB was abolished along with Kidderminster & Churchill & Blakedown and so Droitwich Spa now works TCB to the WMSCC, plus it's Up Distant (DS77) and Homes (DS75/76) were also replaced by colour lights, the down starter (DS15) and advanced starter (DS16) also changed to colour lights

Tunnel Junction's Up Main Starter (TJ6) was abolished

Shrub Hill's Up Main Home (SH2/3) became a colour light to aid in sighting, plus the dock sidings (which hadn't been used in a long time) were lifted and disconnected, The Up Advanced Starter (SH13) also changed to a colour light

Norton Jn also lost its semaphore home (NJ9/10) to a colour light, also meaning we were (and still are) left with 1 working lower quadrant distant on network rail, and its between Shrewsbury Severn bridge Jn and Sutton bridge jn

Making Newland East the only box to remain unchanged throughout!


Since then the only changes have been the closure of Gloucester PSB North Panel (fringing at Norton Jn & Droitwich) and the WMSCC taking control
and the station at Worcester Parkway opening in 2021 just to the right of NJ26




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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 11/04/2022 at 23:50 #146101
DaveHarries
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elltrain3 in post 146100 said:
So this time a new take on an old mock it's a re-made Worcester!
[.....]


Well done Ell: nice job and it would be great if it was ever released.

One possible error, albeit minor is the location of TJ20: while I was in Worcester in mid-March on a work jaunt I had to change at Foregate Street and noticed that Tunnel Junction's TJ20 is located opposite Henwick's HK5. Here is a photo I got at Foregate Street looking towards Shrub Hill which shows both signals: TJ20 on the left and HK5 on the right. Fab job by you though.

Cheers,
Dave


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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 12/04/2022 at 00:53 #146102
Newhampshires
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Ell and DaveHarries, for Worcester, it's almost as if you have the locking tables and other info needed to create an actual sim. May the Simsig gods look at you and smile.

Love it!!!

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 12/04/2022 at 08:30 #146103
kbarber
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Amazing stuff!

A few thoughts, if I may.

I believe the Malvern - Ledbury section was never double and L&B instruments were provided at an early date. At one stage there was at least one intermediate box (might even have been a couple), which worked L&B both ways. I suspect L&B working was required to get past the regulatory authorities at a time when a physical authority (token or staff) was normally an absolute requirement for single lines. I've an idea L&B was adopted so trains didn't have to slow to exchange tokens while climbing steeply through single track tunnels (though I'm not sure where that information comes from). I'm told the instruments were technically fascinating and the co-operative cancelling arrangements even more so.

Be careful with your acceptance and direction levers. They are very different animals. A Direction Lever is one you pull for a train going away from you; it is associated with (released by) a normal block instrument and obviously locks the corresponding direction lever normal at the other end of the section. In the one place I've ever worked it (Bewdley SVR), it's worked using the Electric Token Regs 'so far as they apply', with a note in the SBSIs that the lever must not be normalised until the section is clear or the train has come to a stand (the latter presumably being a relaxation to allow for trains being stabled in Platform 3). Acceptance Lever is obviously one you pull for a train coming to you, but it relates to a line that's track circuited throughout and has no associated block instrument (though there's usually a locked/free indicator and there is a block bell). It is backlocked as soon as the starter is cleared at the other end and also by occupation of any of the single line track circuits. There is a complete set of regulations for acceptance lever working, issued to boxes concerned. (Intriguingly that included boxes in the Colchester area when they were resignalled at the beginning of the 1960s, and the regulations contain references to 'lowering' signals, even though they were all colour lights! I surmise the regs were a direct lift from a set of WR regs already in use somewhere.)

I strongly suspect the IB signals at Evesham were worked from WR-style switches on the block shelf. They were a small round-topped cast iron 'pillar', almost identical with the instruments used for a ganger's occupation key; they had a physical interlocking mechanism so the switch itself could be made subject to 'line clear' release rather than LC acting on the signal aspect alone. 100 and 200 were very typical numberings for such switches.

Keep going Ell, I'm really loving these 'what ifs' of yours!

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 12/04/2022 at 09:54 #146104
TUT
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Very very impressive piece of work!

I also have a couple of niggly little comments.

At Newland East I'm afraid you've got the numbers of the discs the wrong way round. NE13 is on the Up and NE15 on the Down. Other changes were made at Newland East. NE13 (your NE15) was moved to the Henwick side of the MCB presumably so you could get a train back behind it and not have it sat on the crossing. A couple of Moreton-on-Lugg track circuits (that's what I call them anyway) over Newland East MCB crossing were also added. The Down Main is now continually track circuited from the approach to NE4 to NE5. A4T ends at NE4 as you have it in your diagram. A new 3T extends to a few yards beyond NE15 disc (your NE13). Then 4T extends up to NE5 as you have it. On the Up A32T ends at NE32 as you have it in your diagram, but now you then have 33T extending over the MCB to NE13 disc (your NE15, now on the other side of the crossing).

Also I'm sure this may have been a deliberate design choice, but you can't not show that NE4 is on the wrong side of the track!

Tokenless block instruments do not show train going to or train coming from, they show train in section and train accepted with no differentiation as to direction.

http://www.trainweb.org/railwest/images/hw/tb-inst.jpg

There is also no release token button nor token out visual, instead you have a 2-position rotary acceptance switch (normal and accept) and two buttons: offer and train arrived.

At Malvern Wells there is a route up to the DGL limit of shunt. You're missing a ground disc. There're 2. There's MW26 and there's another: MW25. It's actually MW25 that reads up to MW5, MW26 is the signal for moves into the DGL.

I'm not quite sure where you were going with the North East Scotland bells, so this may be a deliberate choice as well, but I hope our readers will be interested in this even if you already knew it. You are missing quite a few block bells there. The block bell between Malvern Wells and Ledbury was retained as is still in use. I believe the reason it was kept was to provide a way of sending 6, 4-5-5 etc. Otherwise they'd've had to put in emergency alarms and everything. But it is in daily use for sending train entering section. Just train entering section. It is not used to describe trains or anything. I don't really know why but there it is. They also book the times the tokenless block instrument moves to train accepted and normal which is...different. The single lines between Henwick and Tunnel Junction, Henwick and Shrub Hill and the bi-directional Up Main between Tunnel Junction and Shrub Hill are, as you show, all TCB, but (as kbarber hinted at just above) train description is by block bell in all three cases, with entering section and out of section sent as normal. Trains are also described by block bell on the no-block Through Sidings between Tunnel and Shrub Hill. As it's a no block line you send the description as the train is entering onto the line (no need to get it accepted). It's also train description by block bell on the single line between Norton Junction and Evesham I believe.

kbarber in post 146103 said:
(Intriguingly that included boxes in the Colchester area when they were resignalled at the beginning of the 1960s, and the regulations contain references to 'lowering' signals, even though they were all colour lights! I surmise the regs were a direct lift from a set of WR regs already in use somewhere.)
It's interesting, you find the same terminology in London Underground yellow perils from the 1940s referring to all-colour-light installations.

Anyway fantastic offering, truly. And a great prompt for discussion too.

Edit: very very minor comment on your block shelf for Newland there. None of 13, 14 and 15 have indicators in the box and obviously number 1 lever doesn't have N/R indications either. But that's just being pedantic, really, isn't it?

Last edited: 12/04/2022 at 10:06 by TUT
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 12/04/2022 at 10:14 #146105
Dionysusnu
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TUT in post 146104 said:
Tokenless block instruments do not show train going to or train coming from, they show train in section and train accepted with no differentiation as to direction.

http://www.trainweb.org/railwest/images/hw/tb-inst.jpg

There is also no release token button nor token out visual, instead you have a 2-position rotary acceptance switch (normal and accept) and two buttons: offer and train arrived.
For what it's worth, a few actual SimSig simulations already have this system implemented. Exeter at Exmouth Jn to Honiton for example.

Last edited: 12/04/2022 at 10:16 by Dionysusnu
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 12/04/2022 at 11:01 #146106
elltrain3
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kbarber in post 146103 said:
Amazing stuff!

A few thoughts, if I may.

I believe the Malvern - Ledbury section was never double and L&B instruments were provided at an early date. At one stage there was at least one intermediate box (might even have been a couple), which worked L&B both ways. I suspect L&B working was required to get past the regulatory authorities at a time when a physical authority (token or staff) was normally an absolute requirement for single lines. I've an idea L&B was adopted so trains didn't have to slow to exchange tokens while climbing steeply through single track tunnels (though I'm not sure where that information comes from). I'm told the instruments were technically fascinating and the co-operative cancelling arrangements even more so.

Be careful with your acceptance and direction levers. They are very different animals. A Direction Lever is one you pull for a train going away from you; it is associated with (released by) a normal block instrument and obviously locks the corresponding direction lever normal at the other end of the section. In the one place I've ever worked it (Bewdley SVR), it's worked using the Electric Token Regs 'so far as they apply', with a note in the SBSIs that the lever must not be normalised until the section is clear or the train has come to a stand (the latter presumably being a relaxation to allow for trains being stabled in Platform 3). Acceptance Lever is obviously one you pull for a train coming to you, but it relates to a line that's track circuited throughout and has no associated block instrument (though there's usually a locked/free indicator and there is a block bell). It is backlocked as soon as the starter is cleared at the other end and also by occupation of any of the single line track circuits. There is a complete set of regulations for acceptance lever working, issued to boxes concerned. (Intriguingly that included boxes in the Colchester area when they were resignalled at the beginning of the 1960s, and the regulations contain references to 'lowering' signals, even though they were all colour lights! I surmise the regs were a direct lift from a set of WR regs already in use somewhere.)

I strongly suspect the IB signals at Evesham were worked from WR-style switches on the block shelf. They were a small round-topped cast iron 'pillar', almost identical with the instruments used for a ganger's occupation key; they had a physical interlocking mechanism so the switch itself could be made subject to 'line clear' release rather than LC acting on the signal aspect alone. 100 and 200 were very typical numberings for such switches.

Keep going Ell, I'm really loving these 'what ifs' of yours!
Thank you! and yeah the L&B confused me a little I just did some very basic research so thanks for the more detailed explanation!

and yeah the Acceptence/Direction lever confusion was just in the text, I have an understanding what they do! Thanks for the clarification.

and yeah the IBs at Evesham, Moreton-In-Marsh and Ascott were all block shelf worked, only Evesham lost its block shelf with the re-doubling, as far as I'm aware Ascott retains a small part of the block shelf for AW100 and AW200 switches.

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 12/04/2022 at 11:30 #146108
elltrain3
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TUT in post 146104 said:
Very very impressive piece of work!

I also have a couple of niggly little comments.

At Newland East I'm afraid you've got the numbers of the discs the wrong way round. NE13 is on the Up and NE15 on the Down. Other changes were made at Newland East. NE13 (your NE15) was moved to the Henwick side of the MCB presumably so you could get a train back behind it and not have it sat on the crossing. A couple of Moreton-on-Lugg track circuits (that's what I call them anyway) over Newland East MCB crossing were also added. The Down Main is now continually track circuited from the approach to NE4 to NE5. A4T ends at NE4 as you have it in your diagram. A new 3T extends to a few yards beyond NE15 disc (your NE13). Then 4T extends up to NE5 as you have it. On the Up A32T ends at NE32 as you have it in your diagram, but now you then have 33T extending over the MCB to NE13 disc (your NE15, now on the other side of the crossing).

Also I'm sure this may have been a deliberate design choice, but you can't not show that NE4 is on the wrong side of the track!

Tokenless block instruments do not show train going to or train coming from, they show train in section and train accepted with no differentiation as to direction.

http://www.trainweb.org/railwest/images/hw/tb-inst.jpg

There is also no release token button nor token out visual, instead you have a 2-position rotary acceptance switch (normal and accept) and two buttons: offer and train arrived.

At Malvern Wells there is a route up to the DGL limit of shunt. You're missing a ground disc. There're 2. There's MW26 and there's another: MW25. It's actually MW25 that reads up to MW5, MW26 is the signal for moves into the DGL.

I'm not quite sure where you were going with the North East Scotland bells, so this may be a deliberate choice as well, but I hope our readers will be interested in this even if you already knew it. You are missing quite a few block bells there. The block bell between Malvern Wells and Ledbury was retained as is still in use. I believe the reason it was kept was to provide a way of sending 6, 4-5-5 etc. Otherwise they'd've had to put in emergency alarms and everything. But it is in daily use for sending train entering section. Just train entering section. It is not used to describe trains or anything. I don't really know why but there it is. They also book the times the tokenless block instrument moves to train accepted and normal which is...different. The single lines between Henwick and Tunnel Junction, Henwick and Shrub Hill and the bi-directional Up Main between Tunnel Junction and Shrub Hill are, as you show, all TCB, but (as kbarber hinted at just above) train description is by block bell in all three cases, with entering section and out of section sent as normal. Trains are also described by block bell on the no-block Through Sidings between Tunnel and Shrub Hill. As it's a no block line you send the description as the train is entering onto the line (no need to get it accepted). It's also train description by block bell on the single line between Norton Junction and Evesham I believe.

kbarber in post 146103 said:
(Intriguingly that included boxes in the Colchester area when they were resignalled at the beginning of the 1960s, and the regulations contain references to 'lowering' signals, even though they were all colour lights! I surmise the regs were a direct lift from a set of WR regs already in use somewhere.)
It's interesting, you find the same terminology in London Underground yellow perils from the 1940s referring to all-colour-light installations.

Anyway fantastic offering, truly. And a great prompt for discussion too.

Edit: very very minor comment on your block shelf for Newland there. None of 13, 14 and 15 have indicators in the box and obviously, number 1 lever doesn't have N/R indications either. But that's just being pedantic, really, isn't it?
Yep, I'll get NE's discs fixed I must admit I always miss that Disc "For" is for a trailing disc with disc "At" being facing!
and the TC changes there I'm thankful for your advice on as I couldn't find a "modern" picture of the diagram!
and yeah NE4 is a pure "GWR" design in it being wrong side but for the aid of LMR people I placed it "Conventionally" :P
and the 'repeaters' are added for every signal mainly due to the lack of TC's in the older era :)

The Tokenless block if I'm honest I just got lazy xD
I'll see if I can "borrow" the ones from Exeter now just so I have some in there!

Now I saw that the raised double stack disc MW25/26 was reduced to a single disc in the modern era? I'll put it back in if you say it never left! :)

Yeah now that was a weird choice and mainly done as to avoid the need for the full standard block instruments around Worcester but you make a good point
I'll add some more Bells in to simulate the communication between boxes.

Thanks for all the help! I'm quite proud of this mock and comparing it to my old mock shows just how far I've come since then!

Upated Mocks now added Here

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 12/04/2022 at 11:32 #146109
elltrain3
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DaveHarries in post 146101 said:
elltrain3 in post 146100 said:
So this time a new take on an old mock it's a re-made Worcester!
[.....]


Well done Ell: nice job and it would be great if it was ever released.

One possible error, albeit minor is the location of TJ20: while I was in Worcester in mid-March on a work jaunt I had to change at Foregate Street and noticed that Tunnel Junction's TJ20 is located opposite Henwick's HK5. Here is a photo I got at Foregate Street looking towards Shrub Hill which shows both signals: TJ20 on the left and HK5 on the right. Fab job by you though.

Cheers,
Dave

Yeah, now I was going to put them side-by-side as they are in real life, though I feared it'd make things a little too complex so I've put it where it is to help the Tunnel Jn signaller know it's his otherwise it'd involve some very wavy borders!

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 12/04/2022 at 18:14 #146115
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elltrain3 in post 146109 said:
Yeah, now I was going to put them side-by-side as they are in real life, though I feared it'd make things a little too complex so I've put it where it is to help the Tunnel Jn signaller know it's his otherwise it'd involve some very wavy borders!

Not so sure about the borders. If it had been me doing the mockup I would have made space for TJ20 by moving the boundary line to about halfway down the Foregate Street platform. Anyway you are the king on this one so please don't take this as a crushing criticism: it is not intended to be such - you did a cracking job on yours and I certainly hope that if the Worcester area boxes ever get released then the resulting sim is based on your mock-up.

Dave

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 18/04/2022 at 22:30 #146207
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Hello All and Happy Easter!

My Next mock is a proper New mock and covers the remaining Southern areas I've not previously covered
It stretches from Fawkham Jn & Hoo Jn (Exc) right through to Paddock wood (Exc) and Faversham/Margate! and includes 4 era's covering all the MAJOR changes in the area!

Time for the sim in detail starting with the oldest era
The 1980s
Now this era is not defined do a date/year but is based on the 80s era
The 'Mainline' boxes don't see a change in this era so I'll only cover the Medway valley line boxes.

Firstly we see the TD for Strood, covering the area formerly worked from Strood Junction (Plated EQ) an SR Type 13 "Art Deco" Style box fitted with 70 Levers and Opened in 1939 as a result of the new electrification of the Medway Valley line, it survived until 1971 before being taken over by Dartford PSB for Strood itself and over to Rochester for the Chatam Lines

Our first proper controlled box is Cuxton (Plated 'CX'.), the "CX" is a non-southern code, and was probably put there when boxes required plates on signals necessitating the need for a more "standard" code. The box here is a SER (South Eastern Railway) Box built with the opening of the line in 1844, it started with 17 levers though as adjacent boxes closed (the most recent being Cuxton Road (Plated "EBJ".) in 1968, Followed By Strood Jn in 1971) it gained more levers ending up with 29 levers. The box controls mostly semaphores though has some colour lights for the section through Halling (The box there closed in 1972), it works AB to Snodland.

Next is Snodland (Plated 'EDM' - An original SR Code) Opened in 1890 by the SER again, though extended in the 1930s the box retains 25 Levers and worked AB both ways, the sole purpose of its existence being the crossing here, the trailing crossover was long out of use by the 80s.

Next Up New Hythe (Plated 'NH'.) again a non-SR Code for presumably the same reason as Cuxton, the box here is another ARP one, fitted with 20 levers and opened in 1939 to control the access to the many paper mills in the area plus a busy road crossing, though by even the 80s the mills only had 1 siding and plans were afoot to replace the crossing with a bridge (though by this point the crossing did still exist!), we also see semaphores again here and combined Distants for Aylesford

Next up, Aylesford (Plated 'AF'.) another non-SR Code, The box here opened in 1921 to the Southerns Type 11 design and was fitted with 35 Levers and has a simple yet complex layout, having a very close section to both adjacent boxes. Plus a CCTV crossing remotely worked, and the 2 protecting signals (AF 50/52) were semaphores worked from switches!

Next up is Maidstone West (Plated 'MS'.) Another Non-SR Code, the box here is a true survivor, it was built by the SER in 1899 and is raised on a brick ledge, to give a good view of the station. It has a whopping 111 Levers making it the largest survivor on SR Metals! though has had colour lights since the 30s & 40s ironically! the layout here is an old one having sidings and bay platforms galore, plus the 'A.R.C" siding used for aggregate trains from somerset.

We continue our journey and reach East Farleigh (Plated 'EF'.) which opened in 1892 by the SER and has 20 Levers, and in the 80s was a very simple affair with NO track circuits! Plus a nice set of gates.

Our final box is Wateringbury (Plated 'WB'.) Opened in 1893 again by the SER, though its area is considerably larger than when it was built! the first signals are a pair of crossing protecting signals for Teston Crossing (the box having closed in the 70s cuts), followed by the semaphores for Wateringbury itself, as we pass the manual gates we then pass Yalding & Yalding LC formerly controlled from a box there which closed in 1986 (hence the flexibility with '80s'), then we pass over to Ashford IECC for the final approach to Paddock wood!

We now pass a few years to 2005

To start with we see the 'Main Lines' through the sim before covering the changes to the Medway Valley

First up is Rochester (Plated 'ER'.) Which opened in 1959 by BR (Showing they still adopted the SR'd codes long after their abolition) and was in conjunction with electrification, the box here works the fringe to Victoria at Longfield, followed by the 2 GF's at Sole St. We then pass Rochester Bridge Jn where the 'Chatham' lines join us from the North Kent sim that already exists at Strood controlled from the North Kent SCC by this time.
The station layout is slow with a pair of sidings for stabling plus 4 platforms 2 main and 2 loops with the Down Loop being able to be used for Wrong road departures, we then pass through the narrow tunnels and through Chatham.

Next up is Gillingham (Plated 'ET'.) The box here was built in 1913 by the SR and so was the original box and 40 lever frame, but the box was formerly Gillingham 'B' with Gillingham 'A' (Plated 'ES'.) being at the station itself the reason for B's survival is an easy one... The Crossing!
The layout here is made of 2 through platforms with all but the Down platform being BiDi, the layout also had access to the docks and turnback sidings plus the extensive sidings at Gillingham C.S.D.

Next Up is the odd one out at Rainham (Plated 'EU'.) and opened with Rochester in 1959 the box here has the smallest layout of the 1959 modernisation having just Rainham LC and the loops at Newington to oversee

2nd to Last is Sittingbourne (Plated 'EV'.) The box here however has the Biggest on the sim. It controls Sittingbourne West, East & Northern/Middle Junctions for the line to Sheerness and the isle of Sheppy plus overseas the small station and surviving goods yard which up until sheerness steel mill went bust in the early 2000s saw trains running round in the DGL at Sittingbourne! The station also shows the shuttle nature of the sheerness branch with a BI-DI Loop and Turnback siding.
The branch to sheerness is an unusual one seeing a shuttle plus a few 'through' services a day it is mostly double track bar the kingsferry lifting bridge to which a small GF slots the signals both ways, then we pass the loop at Queensborough before arriving into 1 of the 2 platforms at sheerness.

Finally is Faversham (Plated 'EY'.), now before we reach Faversham we pass Teyhham and Teynham MCG (Formerly Plated 'EX'.) as there was a box here just containing 5 levers and who's sole job was to open & close the gates for road users! We pass stone AHB and reach Faversham! the platforms here are 'old fashioned' in that all arriving trains use 3/4 and all departures use 1/2 though 4 was usefully made Bi-Di to allow for quicker turnarounds.
as most services finish here plenty of siding space plus a 'back road' are used for reversing and stabling stock.
The lines then split, the 'main' line being towards Canterbury East & Dover or the 'Branch' towards Margate, Ramsgate and then either Onto Dover or back into London another way!

Next is the MVL,
Since we last Visited Strood has been taken over again this time by the East Kent SCC (Plated 'EK'.) and the MVL has been modernised.
Cuxton has retained its levers but all semaphores have now gone

Snodland lost its levers entirely replaced by 2 switches and it still just protects the crossing.

Aylesford has lost its frame to a panel and has extended its area, to cover the now closed box at New Hythe where the crossing was removed in place of a bridge. The siding for the Mills survived though

Maidstone changed the least, the only loss being the semaphores at the fringes!

East Farleigh suffered a similar fate to Snodland having all semaphores removed and just 1 signal + repeater/distant in each direction though it gained 4 TC's, and retained lever operation.

Finally, Wateringbury also changed little, just the usual loss of semaphores.


We now advance to 2011 and changes are afoot! The East Kent SCC In Gillingham is preparing to absorb the entire route to Ramsgate, and in 2011 those changes started, Faversham was the first to go the new layout now being active, and the main change was making the Up 'Chatam' as it was now known fully Bi-Directional and adding plenty of TC's as well as a general tidy up, plus new turnback signals were added at Herne Bay which IRL wasn't slotted but I've done it due to the way I've made the sims.

Sittingbourne now became the fringe to Faversham and Teynham GB was closed and made to a CCTV crossing.

We Jump again this time to 2016 and the layout is vastly different!

On the MVL
The real major loss was Snodland which was made into a CCTV crossing controlled from Aylesford and TCB working brought into use between there and Cuxton
Maidstone west lost the Bay though didn't matter too much
and following a signaller being hospitalised East Farleigh, Wateringbury and Cuxton and East Farleigh have had their gates replaced by barriers and due to the ongoing traffic problem at East Farleigh the box is likely the next to go!

on the ML

The railway here has been re-built entirely!
Starting off the former GF's at sole st have been signalled and made into a turnback facility, and Rochester SB Closed and amazingly the entire station was MOVED the DPL & DM made BI-DI! though the original platforms and loop survived.

Gillingham was changed only slightly, a few signals were removed and the docks branch curtailed into a siding.

Rainham Gained a new platform '0' to which Thameslink trains now use for cross-London services.

Sittingbourne saw a few more TCs appear and the redundant sidings removed, and unusually the goods only loop was retained! The triangle lines also became the 'sheppy' and 'sheppy spur' the sheerness branch remained unchanged bar the removal of the OOU cement works at Queensborough.

Following all these changes, the former SR is down to 2 sets of gated crossings 1 at Wye & 1 at Chartham and southern semaphores are now a very rare breed too nowerdays.

Enjoy and anything I got wrong just shout and I'll get it fixed.





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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 19/04/2022 at 08:39 #146210
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Another brilliant piece of work!

Just out of interest, a couple of useless factoids:

I gained the impression from a colleague who'd once been 'lad' there that Faversham had a MV-GRS NX panel of the kind provided at Barking, Stratford etc. The other panels on that part of the 'Kent Coast' electrification were also NX, also turn-push but of a slightly different design, with routes indicated conventionally by white lights and point detection likewise.

I believe the Sheerness Branch was controlled using US-style 'CTC' technology. It was intended, I understand, as a test bed (and there was at least one scheme - Beverley? - that was intended to use it more widely) but in the end it was never perpetuated.

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 19/04/2022 at 08:46 #146211
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kbarber in post 146210 said:
Another brilliant piece of work!

Just out of interest, a couple of useless factoids:

I gained the impression from a colleague who'd once been 'lad' there that Faversham had a MV-GRS NX panel of the kind provided at Barking, Stratford etc. The other panels on that part of the 'Kent Coast' electrification were also NX, also turn-push but of a slightly different design, with routes indicated conventionally by white lights and point detection likewise.

I believe the Sheerness Branch was controlled using US-style 'CTC' technology. It was intended, I understand, as a test bed (and there was at least one scheme - Beverley? - that was intended to use it more widely) but in the end it was never perpetuated.
Not Beverley as far as I'm aware, might have been Selby - Market Weighton, that was used as a test bed for level crossings IIRC

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 19/04/2022 at 13:40 #146216
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I've had a look at the 2016 to Present mockup and there seems to be a few issues at Gillingham that doesn't quite reflect the current layout, I've used Open Train Times for reference purposes.

For example, with the Down side sidings you have two berths for No1 and No2/No3 each have their own shunt separate shunt aspect not a shared one.

Other then that it's a good job and it's great to see a area that featured a weekly commute done.


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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 19/04/2022 at 20:13 #146222
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Yeah, now I used OTT to make the 2016 and to get Berths and found that IRL the top siding (the docks line) has largely been lifted and so I didn't include it.
But I'll add that in tomorrow when I edit it

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 20/04/2022 at 14:24 #146225
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ajax103 in post 146216 said:
I've had a look at the 2016 to Present mockup and there seems to be a few issues at Gillingham that doesn't quite reflect the current layout, I've used Open Train Times for reference purposes.

For example, with the Down side sidings you have two berths for No1 and No2/No3 each have their own shunt separate shunt aspect not a shared one.

Other then that it's a good job and it's great to see a area that featured a weekly commute done.

New Version of 2016 with Gillingham Sdgs Updated! :)


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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 20/04/2022 at 16:16 #146226
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elltrain3 in post 146225 said:
ajax103 in post 146216 said:
I've had a look at the 2016 to Present mockup and there seems to be a few issues at Gillingham that doesn't quite reflect the current layout, I've used Open Train Times for reference purposes.

For example, with the Down side sidings you have two berths for No1 and No2/No3 each have their own shunt separate shunt aspect not a shared one.

Other then that it's a good job and it's great to see a area that featured a weekly commute done.

New Version of 2016 with Gillingham Sdgs Updated! :)

Umm you've misspelt Strood tunnel as it's spelt Strodd in the mockup but I'm sure it's Strood as that's the name of the station next to it.

Not sure if that's been done to all maps but it certainly applies to the one I've quoted.

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 20/04/2022 at 16:32 #146227
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Elliot obviously enjoys doing these mock-ups and sharing with us, for that I thank him.

Remember, that these are mock-ups and not polished final simulations, I for one can forgive the typos and little mistakes in them, to err is human, now if they were in a final sim by all means say something but come on it is getting rather tedious with the pedantry and nit picking every time Elliot puts a new one out. People really should just enjoy these for what they are, which is Elliots impression of what any possible sim may look like.

/rant

Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!!
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