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A little Mock-SimSig Fun!

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 31/05/2021 at 15:20 #139813
postal
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bill_gensheet in post 139812 said:
The N7 0-8-2T reflected in the mirror is one of those built at Stratford to AJ Hill's design . . . .
Someone has put a typo in at some stage. N7 were 0-6-2T not 0-8-2T. The LNER system allocated each wheel arrangement a letter. The full listing (as given on Wikipedia) is:

A: 4-6-2 B: 4-6-0 C: 4-4-2 D: 4-4-0 E: 2-4-0 F: 2-4-2 G: 0-4-4 H: 4-4-4 J: 0-6-0 K: 2-6-0 L: 2-6-4 M: 0-6-4 N: 0-6-2 O: 2-8-0 P: 2-8-2
Q: 0-8-0 R: 0-8-2 S: 0-8-4 T: 4-8-0 U: 2-8-0+0-8-2 V: 2-6-2 W: 4-6-4 X: 4-2-2 & 2-2-4 Y: 0-4-0 Z: 0-4-2

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 31/05/2021 at 17:35 #139816
jc92
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postal in post 139813 said:
bill_gensheet in post 139812 said:
The N7 0-8-2T reflected in the mirror is one of those built at Stratford to AJ Hill's design . . . .
Someone has put a typo in at some stage. N7 were 0-6-2T not 0-8-2T. The LNER system allocated each wheel arrangement a letter. The full listing (as given on Wikipedia) is:

A: 4-6-2 B: 4-6-0 C: 4-4-2 D: 4-4-0 E: 2-4-0 F: 2-4-2 G: 0-4-4 H: 4-4-4 J: 0-6-0 K: 2-6-0 L: 2-6-4 M: 0-6-4 N: 0-6-2 O: 2-8-0 P: 2-8-2
Q: 0-8-0 R: 0-8-2 S: 0-8-4 T: 4-8-0 U: 2-8-0+0-8-2 V: 2-6-2 W: 4-6-4 X: 4-2-2 & 2-2-4 Y: 0-4-0 Z: 0-4-2
Not to mention the B12 that's lost a wheel off one axle!

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 01/06/2021 at 08:21 #139827
kbarber
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bill_gensheet in post 139812 said:
Image from Stratford Central Jn looking west/up

Signalman had a mirror to see trains coming.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/webimg/QVNIMTIwMDY3Nzcx.jpg?&width=640

August 1923: A mirror helps the signalman looking down the old Great Eastern line from Stratford Central station. The view from the signalbox was obscured by the waiting room roof and chimney stacks. The Channelsea curve is on the right, giving connections to the North London Railway at Victoria Park, and the Cambridge main line near Loughton Branch Junction. The N7 0-8-2T reflected in the mirror is one of those built at Stratford to AJ Hill's design, while in the background a B12 4-5-0 and a tank engine - possibly a J69 0-6-0T - stand alongside trains of very mixed empty stock. (Photo by Hulton Archive/Getty Images)

Also
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOTO-GER-STRATFORD-CENTRAL-JUNCTION-DIAGRAM-OF-SIGNALS-C1919-/193542740429


Bill

Wow! Just... wow! Thank you Bill.

So that up platform was a bay, not intended as a running loop.

Central Junction at least 165 levers. Well, I'm not surprised. That must have been fun, particularly with the short sections.

bill_gensheet in post 139810 said:

I think otherwise, the now Cambridge lines were the former Local and 'Woolwich' became Electrics.
There was definitely a degree of widening after the 1913 maps. By 1976, south to north, there was the Fenchurch Street Single Line (which, I suspect, was on the alignment of the old Up Woolwich), the Electric Lines (Down Woolwich & Up Through), Main Lines (Down Through & Up Local), Cambridge Lines (Down Local & Up Cambridge Goods) and goods lines (designation uncertain, Down Cambridge Goods & Down Carriage) through the section between Western Junction and Bow Junction.

bill_gensheet in post 139810 said:
As for simulations, some aspects of the timetable look fun too. There were (1922) Fenchurch St - Ongar crossing the whole layout at a fair frequency <snip>
That explains them wanting a Fenchurch St shuttle, with Stratford - Epping being taken over by the Central Line as part of the total works.

Amazing what a can of worms opens when someone asks about platform numbers isn't it! I hope everyone else is getting some enjoyment from our anorakish delvings.

Last edited: 01/06/2021 at 08:23 by kbarber
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 01/06/2021 at 11:21 #139829
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Another one of interest, Bow Jn post 1949 with the single line arrangements at the Bow end through to Thorntons Fields CS, along with some useful memories:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/beechwoodphotography/4341659121/
Several other boxes and panels in the same users' pages

As you say some squeezing / realignment as there's more tracks than 1913 especially over the river bridges, and easing what would otherwise be quite a kink at Bow onto the unchanged alignments. Between bridges there were sidings that were removed. However the Cambridge lines were a simple double junction onto the (old) P9/P10 lines right through to 2000.
eg https://live.staticflickr.com/5473/11287047576_310ee9fb2f_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/2652/4095167911_921d6a7e8e_b.jpg

One query arising now is that the 1919 diagram shows interface to Eastern Jn on P10 (now 10A) and 'Pontoon (?)' presumably at the north of the Cambridge platforms.
There is a S.B. shown on the P10/P11 vee of the 1913 surveys in a simlilar location to the later power box. Was that out of use with signals taken over by the 1919 Central Jn ?

Bill

(This thread has indeed a life of its' own, how easy for a mod to move the relevant posts to 'real thing' section ?
I am OK to re-upload my Stratford diagram back to mock sim sig once amended)

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 02/06/2021 at 08:06 #139836
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bill_gensheet in post 139829 said:
Another one of interest, Bow Jn post 1949 with the single line arrangements at the Bow end through to Thorntons Fields CS, along with some useful memories:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/beechwoodphotography/4341659121/
Several other boxes and panels in the same users' pages
Thank you again Bill. Some gems there, and one or two memories as well.

bill_gensheet in post 139829 said:
As you say some squeezing / realignment as there's more tracks than 1913 especially over the river bridges, and easing what would otherwise be quite a kink at Bow onto the unchanged alignments. Between bridges there were sidings that were removed. However the Cambridge lines were a simple double junction onto the (old) P9/P10 lines right through to 2000.
eg https://live.staticflickr.com/5473/11287047576_310ee9fb2f_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/2652/4095167911_921d6a7e8e_b.jpg
Yes I see. The brain cell is clearly struggling a bit. (Well it is north of 40yr ago, and with my father being Area Inspector I didn't actually get to play with it, even though I had a few visits.)

bill_gensheet in post 139829 said:
One query arising now is that the 1919 diagram shows interface to Eastern Jn on P10 (now 10A) and 'Pontoon (?)' presumably at the north of the Cambridge platforms.
There is a S.B. shown on the P10/P11 vee of the 1913 surveys in a simlilar location to the later power box. Was that out of use with signals taken over by the 1919 Central Jn ?
Yes, I've been wondering about that 'SB'. The 1919 diagram doesn't show a lot of space for such a building. The Offices, by 1976, housed the Area Inspector and the Traffic Assistants, and I don't think there was a lot of room for a proper 'box. Total speculation, but I wonder if it might have been accommodation for a numbertaker or a tail lamp man? Such things weren't unknown; there was a numbertaker's box at Bethnal Green to advise LV what engines were arriving on what trains, and at York there was a tail lamp cabin at the former Holgate Junction to advise Loco Yard when trains for York Yards had passed clear with tail lamp. Numbertaker feels more likely than tail lamp in this instance, but you never quite know. Clearly gone (or at least not involved in signalling) by 1919.

bill_gensheet in post 139829 said:
Bill

(This thread has indeed a life of its' own, how easy for a mod to move the relevant posts to 'real thing' section ?
I am OK to re-upload my Stratford diagram back to mock sim sig once amended)
Good idea.

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 02/06/2021 at 18:05 #139840
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To Continue my chain of mocks, here is another fresh one...this time Lincoln!

Covering rather a lot of mechanical AB Boxes it stretches from the fringe to Peterborough through to Lincoln where the line from Wrawby and Barnetby joins
then continues onwards towards Doncaster at Newarks Flat X-ing and back onto south Humberside at Gainsborough

This is the era where most boxes (bar Spalding & the Barnetby line boxes) retain semaphores, levers and bells including the dense station at Lincoln
Plus the dozens of crossings dotted around on all panels!

Post 2008 the Boxes at West Holmes, East Holmes, High St, and Pelham St, Saxilby closed, control to the lincoln SCC
Post 2012 The Boxes at Blankney, Scopwick, Sleaford North and Sleaford South Closed again Control to the Lincoln SCC In This Year Gosberton also got a refurb from a frame to panel though was abolished only 2 years later.
Finally Post 2014 the final section was resignalled abolishing the boxes at Blotoft, Gosberton, Mill Green, Spalding, Littleworth and St James Deeping, control passing to Lincoln SCC
So in 2021 The Only "signal boxes" in the sim still to operate are the 3 Barnetby line boxes Langworth, Wickenby and Holton-Le-Moor with 2 still working AB though all 3 are panels meaning The island of semaphores at Swinderby is the ONLY place where semaphores and levers can still be found, and Lincoln SCC itself, EVERY OTHER box in the sim has since vanished most having been demolished.

In addition, the line from Lincoln - Peterborough has A LOT of manned gate cabins and gate operating crossings (10 gate boxes and 8 Gate Crossings!) all of which were converted to MCBs meaning if I ever get access to the Lincoln SCC diagrams there will be a LOT of crossings to drop!

I feel this would a quiet yet varied sim though could be fun with diversions on!

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 14/06/2021 at 19:16 #140022
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Being I've been busy travelling to/from the railway hub that is Crewe I thought I'd make a mock as why not!

The area crisscross's soooo much it's rather a pain to simulate and laying out all the boxes in a good layout seems impossible so good luck to the developers when they eventually make a sim of Crewe!

The Boxes then:
First up Its Basford Hall, which is simple enough though has the fun job of regulating freight from Basford hall yard and sending them through, plus has Absolute block to play with! But though small a busy little panel!

Next along we reach the MAGNIFICENT Crewe Stn (Crewe SCC) Panel which although is only a small area geographically in the sim is an intense and hard job! You have control of the lines from Kidsgrove through Alsager and the single line through to the station itself, then at south junction, you have the 4 track mainline, Stoke and Nantwich lines converging with some heavy slotting into the DED (LSL) and on the line to Gresty Lane, then continuing through the station we have the lines leaving for Chester, Salop goods, Manchester and Coal yard to the North so all-in-all a very Intense panel.

Also on the LHS we have Gresty Lane SCC Which replaced the earlier Gresty Lane No1 SB in 2016 and is a very modern setup, with plenty of of shunting and slow freights to shunt and move around in between the half-hourly passenger service on the line.

Next is Salop Goods, a mechanical lever frame working PERMISSIVE BLOCK to SSN one of the few places in Britain now to do so outside a station! but layout-wise is simply taking the Fast & Slow freight independent lines and splits them either into the Manchester Independants which lead onto the Manchester south sim or onto the Liverpool independents which take you onto the coal yard panel.

Next, up Steelworks, which like its Neiburgh Beeston Castle on the Chester sim is very simple and involved cleaning the main signals for every move!

Coal Yard is our next stop, and here we see more evidence of complex slotting with Crewe PSB and very restrictive movements works AB to Salop and an equally busy box as the others in the sim.

Second, to last is Winsford split between the frame & Panel that reside in the box. it controls multiple 4-2 junctions and also works the main junction diverging Liverpool trains from Anglo-Scottish ones a very busy panel also!

Finally, we reach the ruler of all boxes Sorting-Sidings-North which has a stupidly complex layout with lots of short overlaps, shunting, slots, permissive and absolute block, plus all the through freight traffic that passes through Crewe meaning in a good chain with delays this box could be rather a lot of fun I feel!

I'm gonna try and make a 1985-2015 version before Gresty lane was abolished but after North & south junctions closed

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Last edited: 14/06/2021 at 19:31 by elltrain3
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 14/06/2021 at 19:21 #140023
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elltrain3 in post 140022 said:

Next is Salop Goods, a mechanical lever frame working PERMISSIVE BLOCK to SSN the only place in Britain now to do so outside a station! but layout-wise is simply taking the Fast & Slow freight independent lines and splits them either into the Manchester Independants which lead onto the Manchester south sim or onto the Liverpool independents which take you onto the coal yard panel.
Workington Main No 2 - Workington Main No 3 works Permissive Block outside of a station on the Bi-Directional Reception siding.

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 14/06/2021 at 19:30 #140026
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do they work permissive? I thought it was just standard AB? Interesting Crewe will be the busiest but still nice to know other places retain it!
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 15/06/2021 at 18:56 #140046
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elltrain3 in post 140022 said:
Being I've been busy travelling to/from the railway hub that is Crewe I thought I'd make a mock as why not!

The area crisscross's soooo much it's rather a pain to simulate and laying out all the boxes in a good layout seems impossible so good luck to the developers when they eventually make a sim of Crewe!

The Boxes then:
First up Its Basford Hall, which is simple enough though has the fun job of regulating freight from Basford hall yard and sending them through, plus has Absolute block to play with! But though small a busy little panel!

Next along we reach the MAGNIFICENT Crewe Stn (Crewe SCC) Panel which although is only a small area geographically in the sim is an intense and hard job! You have control of the lines from Kidsgrove through Alsager and the single line through to the station itself, then at south junction, you have the 4 track mainline, Stoke and Nantwich lines converging with some heavy slotting into the DED (LSL) and on the line to Gresty Lane, then continuing through the station we have the lines leaving for Chester, Salop goods, Manchester and Coal yard to the North so all-in-all a very Intense panel.

Also on the LHS we have Gresty Lane SCC Which replaced the earlier Gresty Lane No1 SB in 2016 and is a very modern setup, with plenty of of shunting and slow freights to shunt and move around in between the half-hourly passenger service on the line.

Next is Salop Goods, a mechanical lever frame working PERMISSIVE BLOCK to SSN one of the few places in Britain now to do so outside a station! but layout-wise is simply taking the Fast & Slow freight independent lines and splits them either into the Manchester Independants which lead onto the Manchester south sim or onto the Liverpool independents which take you onto the coal yard panel.

Next, up Steelworks, which like its Neiburgh Beeston Castle on the Chester sim is very simple and involved cleaning the main signals for every move!

Coal Yard is our next stop, and here we see more evidence of complex slotting with Crewe PSB and very restrictive movements works AB to Salop and an equally busy box as the others in the sim.

Second, to last is Winsford split between the frame & Panel that reside in the box. it controls multiple 4-2 junctions and also works the main junction diverging Liverpool trains from Anglo-Scottish ones a very busy panel also!

Finally, we reach the ruler of all boxes Sorting-Sidings-North which has a stupidly complex layout with lots of short overlaps, shunting, slots, permissive and absolute block, plus all the through freight traffic that passes through Crewe meaning in a good chain with delays this box could be rather a lot of fun I feel!

I'm gonna try and make a 1985-2015 version before Gresty lane was abolished but after North & south junctions closed
Shrewsbury is spelt wrong btw!

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 15/06/2021 at 20:24 #140048
elltrain3
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is it? oh yeah xD oops
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