Trouble when playing multiplayer

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Trouble when playing multiplayer 20/12/2021 at 20:46 #143030
stighetl
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Hello!

I joined a multiplayer game, but there's a problem with the graphics. I have never experienced this before, and none of the other players have this problem.
I will attach some pictures:



Here 1M45 is standing at platform 5. The red color that tells me where the train is, is on the right side of the crossing.

The red color for 2C35 is to the left of platform 1.



Here you can see that the red color for 1W04 is all the way over at Sandy Lane.


Anyone know what's causing this error, and how to fix it?

Thank you!

- Stig
Last edited: 20/12/2021 at 20:46 by stighetl
Reason: None given

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Trouble when playing multiplayer 20/12/2021 at 21:23 #143031
Tempest Malice
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So, if SimSig works similarly to real signalling systems, then to make communications more efficient it might send indications to clients based just on position in a list rather than a name.
So rather than a message saying "track circuit TJM is occupied" (3 bytes for the name), it might be one saying "the 374th Track in the sim is occupied" (where the number is sent directly rather than as text making it smaller,2 bytes in this case).
If it works like this, then a sim update which re-shuffles entries in this list by adding new tracks in between existing ones would cause indications to shuffle out of sync for one further down the list than the addition (e.g. track 5 in the old list refers to a different one than track 5 in the new list).
But this would need you or the host to be on non-matching sim versions which I thought sim sig might check for?, and of course sim sig might not work this way anyway, but my suggestion is to check sim versions between you and host to see if they match or not.

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Trouble when playing multiplayer 20/12/2021 at 21:47 #143032
stighetl
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Thank you for your reply! I learned something new today!

I checked with the host, and we have the same version. Both on the loader and the sim.

- Stig
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Trouble when playing multiplayer 20/12/2021 at 22:04 #143034
Tempest Malice
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stighetl in post 143032 said:
Thank you for your reply! I learned something new today!

I checked with the host, and we have the same version. Both on the loader and the sim.
Well if the sim versions are the same, then that proves my guess wrong, and we will probably both have to wait for someone who does know how SimSig works to come and explain what might be wrong.

Whilst slow internet causing dropped messages has caused issues which look similar in the past for others I would be a little surprised if that's what you have here, given how the TD's seem to match up perfectly with the signal aspects and route set indications and it is only the track occupancies which seem out of place. So I am out of suggestions.

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Trouble when playing multiplayer 20/12/2021 at 22:59 #143035
clive
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Tempest Malice in post 143031 said:

So, if SimSig works similarly to real signalling systems, then to make communications more efficient it might send indications to clients based just on position in a list rather than a name.
So rather than a message saying "track circuit TJM is occupied" (3 bytes for the name), it might be one saying "the 374th Track in the sim is occupied" (where the number is sent directly rather than as text making it smaller,2 bytes in this case).
It certainly did work that way, though from vague memory it sometimes uses an identifier instead.

What I notice on the second screenshot is that at least three signals are green even though they read into occupied track: the down main signal just before Sandy Lane, the up main signal where 1S49 is indicated, and the signal 1C46 is indicated at. Conversely, the signal to the left of 1A80 ought to be green, not red, with the one to its left red, not yellow.

All of which makes me think that the wrong track circuit IDs are being sent across rather than the wrong TD berth IDs.

Tempest Malice in post 143031 said:

But this would need you or the host to be on non-matching sim versions which I thought sim sig might check for?
We don't bother to make such checks; the Loader makes it so easy to be up to date that it wasn't seen as worth it.

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Trouble when playing multiplayer 20/12/2021 at 23:04 #143036
clive
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Tempest Malice in post 143034 said:
stighetl in post 143032 said:

I checked with the host, and we have the same version. Both on the loader and the sim.
Well if the sim versions are the same, then that proves my guess wrong, and we will probably both have to wait for someone who does know how SimSig works to come and explain what might be wrong.
Nothing comes to mind. Without a trace of the network traffic it would be very hard to determine. (There is an option to log a trace to the SimSig log, but I think it's tester-only.)

Tempest Malice in post 143034 said:

Whilst slow internet causing dropped messages has caused issues which look similar in the past for others I would be a little surprised if that's what you have here,
That hasn't been a problem for a long time. TCP shouldn't drop messages anyway, but as a backup in case there's a problem within the code or libraries, some years ago I added a sequence number and (if I recall correctly) a checksum to each network message; dropped, out of order, or corrupt messages should be detected and reported.

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Trouble when playing multiplayer 20/12/2021 at 23:16 #143037
pedroathome
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I'm not saying this is going to help, but I'm going to bring up this thread from a couple years back. https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/50217?postId=121188. (I'm going to say that its probably best for all concerned to keep posts on here, and not bring up the other thread again).

Now, trying to recall behaviour I've seen in the past, is there any network lag messages on either the client or server side? Think the default colour is red.

Was both your internet connection behaving normally, and the internet connection you was connecting to?

James

Last edited: 20/12/2021 at 23:23 by pedroathome
Reason: Can't words good

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Trouble when playing multiplayer 20/12/2021 at 23:53 #143038
y10g9
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clive in post 143035 said:
Tempest Malice in post 143031 said:


Tempest Malice in post 143031 said:

But this would need you or the host to be on non-matching sim versions which I thought sim sig might check for?
We don't bother to make such checks; the Loader makes it so easy to be up to date that it wasn't seen as worth it.
That is incorrect.
When a client attempts to connect to a host with either the loader or simulation not being the same version number, the client will receive a disconnection message and information on what versions the host and clients both report. This is a feature that gets used a fair amount in the testing of sims esp when there is a frequent release of builds for testing and we have more than 1 version of the simulation saved in our files.
An example of the messages the client receives;
[quote]00:00:00 Attempting connection to server - please wait...
00:00:00 The host at 127.0.0.1:50505 has rejected your connection attempt.
00:00:00 Server is not running the same simulation or the same version
00:00:00 Server reports 5.3.3/5.17.2.1/newstreet
00:00:00 Client reports 5.4.0/5.17.2.0/newstreet
00:00:00 Click "Check for updates" in the SimSigLoader

The host will only get a message about a client trying to connect, then being disconnected

It is physically impossible to connect non matching versions of the sim or loader to each other. (Note this error also occurs when a client trys to connect with EG Ashton to the Hosted New Street)

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Trouble when playing multiplayer 21/12/2021 at 07:19 #143042
clive
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y10g9 in post 143038 said:
clive in post 143035 said:

Tempest Malice in post 143031 said:

But this would need you or the host to be on non-matching sim versions which I thought sim sig might check for?
We don't bother to make such checks; the Loader makes it so easy to be up to date that it wasn't seen as worth it.
That is incorrect.
When a client attempts to connect to a host with either the loader or simulation not being the same version number, the client will receive a disconnection message and information on what versions the host and clients both report. This is a feature that gets used a fair amount in the testing of sims esp when there is a frequent release of builds for testing and we have more than 1 version of the simulation saved in our files.

{The quoting got mixed up here; I've tried to fix it.)

Ah, thanks. I don't remember adding such a feature, but that doesn't mean I didn't. Or, more likely, Geoff did and I didn't realize.

That eliminates one possible cause, anyway.

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Trouble when playing multiplayer 21/12/2021 at 13:18 #143057
clive
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I don't know if you can remember, but how did it behave as trains were moving along. For example, see 2F05 on the first screenshot. Presumably it's come round from Exmouth Jn, so what did the red do as it did? What are those flooded points at the left end of platform 1; is it 2C35 and, if so, what did the red to then?

Answers to these might provide clues as to what's wrong.

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Trouble when playing multiplayer 24/12/2021 at 15:19 #143090
IPG
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I just noted that I have been mentioned with my post from the past.
A few weeks ago I think I found the cause of the issue. I just created a new thread for that, before I have read this.
https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/53640

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