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| Go to event 26/02/2022 at 15:37 #145416 | |
Anothersignalman
72 posts |
I'm proposing an additional option when right-clicking an event in the messages list - "Go to event". When selecting this, the screen would scroll left or right as appropriate and maybe flash an area to highlight that event, for instance when a train is waiting at a red signal, or TRTS, or when a slot is requested or given. This would be particularly useful for people who have just started with a new map. Is it doable in theory? Log in to reply The following user said thank you: UKTrainMan |
| Go to event 28/02/2022 at 07:11 #145446 | |
andyallen4014
358 posts |
Agree it would be useful, especially in unfamiliar areas, but is it realistic in terms of the simulation?
User | Multiplayer Host | Timetable Writer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
| Go to event 28/02/2022 at 15:05 #145451 | |
bugsy
1695 posts |
andyallen4014 in post 145446 said:Agree it would be useful, especially in unfamiliar areas, but is it realistic in terms of the simulation?I agree that this would detract from the realism, so I certainly wouldn't use this function if it were to be introduced. Anyway, it doesn't take that long to learn a layout and it's fairly easy to find a train if there is a problem with it. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Go to event 01/03/2022 at 06:36 #145491 | |
flabberdacks
575 posts |
The Messages screen takes care of this, in my opinion. If you keep an eye on it, it'll let you know if something needs your attention, or if something has happened you might want to know about. You can customise what is and isn't shown in Options. Once the Messages screen has alerted you that you need to do something, finding the appropriate area (and method of carrying out that action) are all part of learning a new sim. It'll be old-hat soon. Log in to reply |
| Go to event 01/03/2022 at 19:52 #145505 | |
Red For Danger
169 posts |
Something like this would be really useful - I have lost count of the times when calls from level crossings are left ringing for ages as I just can't seem to find them on the Sim.......
Log in to reply The following user said thank you: UKTrainMan |
| Go to event 02/03/2022 at 02:14 #145507 | |
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JWNoctis
58 posts |
bugsy in post 145451 said:andyallen4014 in post 145446 said:I think it's not really different from having a gradient profile with upcoming speed limits and a synthetic signalling repeater in train sims: These are supposed to replicate the route knowledge professional drivers would have so the average simmer could jump right in.Agree it would be useful, especially in unfamiliar areas, but is it realistic in terms of the simulation?I agree that this would detract from the realism, so I certainly wouldn't use this function if it were to be introduced. Anyway, it doesn't take that long to learn a layout and it's fairly easy to find a train if there is a problem with it. Not realistic at all unless prototypical, but certainly convenient, and lowers the bar for newcomers. Log in to reply |
| Go to event 02/03/2022 at 07:08 #145508 | |
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flabberdacks
575 posts |
Sims are generally built with a height restriction applied - they'll only go over a certain height if it's a big area and there's no real other way of sensibly 'drawing' it. In the mean time, most sims have shortcut keys, where you can press 1, 2, 3 etc on the number row of your keyboard and it should progressively step across the sim. Learning which of these numbers correlates to which area, along with keeping an eye on the Messages screen, is a good way of seeing where your attention should be. You can then set the mouse scroll wheel to scroll up and down instead of left and right, to quickly navigate the area on a small screen. You can use the F3 Options to configure the Messages screen with more options, such as immediately notifying if a train is standing at a signal (before the driver calls you). Hope these little bits help you navigate the sims mate Last edited: 02/03/2022 at 07:08 by flabberdacks Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Go to event 02/03/2022 at 10:12 #145514 | |
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bugsy
1695 posts |
Red For Danger in post 145505 said:Something like this would be really useful - I have lost count of the times when calls from level crossings are left ringing for ages as I just can't seem to find them on the Sim.......I've experienced this on the odd occasion but have just paused the sim until I find the culprit. If I remember correctly, I had this problem mainly on the Cambridge sim but you soon learn where the crossing are. Well, most of them anyway. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Go to event 02/03/2022 at 11:37 #145515 | |
9pN1SEAp
1102 posts |
Red For Danger in post 145505 said:Something like this would be really useful - I have lost count of the times when calls from level crossings are left ringing for ages as I just can't seem to find them on the Sim.......Certainly on large sims e.g. Nescot it would be beneficial to know which box is receiving the call. Thanks Jamie Jamie S (JAMS) Log in to reply The following user said thank you: UKTrainMan |
| Go to event 02/03/2022 at 11:51 #145516 | |
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Albert
1313 posts |
Some sims already have a list in the wiki of which crossing is on which panel, would this be helpful?
AJP in games Log in to reply |
| Go to event 02/03/2022 at 11:54 #145517 | |
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bill_gensheet
1313 posts |
9pN1SEAp in post 145515 said:Red For Danger in post 145505 said:While nobody is going to rewrite a sim for this, crossings could be named to correspond to the shortcut key if desired by the author.Something like this would be really useful - I have lost count of the times when calls from level crossings are left ringing for ages as I just can't seem to find them on the Sim.......Certainly on large sims e.g. Nescot it would be beneficial to know which box is receiving the call. So 'Billys Duck Farm 2' would be 'Billys Duck Farm 2 [3]' if closest to centre on shortcut view 3 Even so some have huge runs of crossings (looking at you Central Wales line). Log in to reply The following user said thank you: UKTrainMan |
| Go to event 02/03/2022 at 14:18 #145521 | |
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9pN1SEAp
1102 posts |
bill_gensheet in post 145517 said:Or the phone dialog could indicate the box/panel is routed to, which would be a core code change. Jamie S (JAMS) Log in to reply The following user said thank you: UKTrainMan |
| Go to event 02/03/2022 at 14:28 #145522 | |
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flabberdacks
575 posts |
Yeah some sims have far too many crossings or junctions for that to be consistent, and we do aim for consistency. If we curb our enthusiasm for just a moment, there is learning time involved when signallers report to a new box, just as there is learning time when players take on a new sim. There's a balance to be found between something being too confusing, versus just a quick look at the sim manual and a few run throughs of the timetable before it becomes a lot more familiar. Log in to reply |
| Go to event 02/03/2022 at 18:06 #145525 | |
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Newhampshires
101 posts |
Red For Danger in post 145505 said:Something like this would be really useful - I have lost count of the times when calls from level crossings are left ringing for ages as I just can't seem to find them on the Sim.......Couldn't one simply pause the sim, locate the crossing, and resume the sim? Sure, it may not be the most realistic...But I would imagine it's not realistic in real life to have a signaler actively in control, who is not aware of the locations of level crossings within their scope. My two cents. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
| Go to event 02/03/2022 at 20:41 #145531 | |
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clive
2737 posts |
bugsy in post 145514 said:Clearly I need to add some more. Log in to reply |
| Go to event 02/03/2022 at 20:47 #145532 | |
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Red For Danger
169 posts |
Newhampshires in post 145525 said:Red For Danger in post 145505 said:Yes - I totally agree and I also pause the Sim, but sometimes there are literally so many crossings it can take ages to find it. I agree with Bill_Gensheet that if writers could include a panel ref it would make life a lot easier. Most of us are occasional users of Sims - by that I mean that it can be a long time between operating a sim to when you come back for another session and in that time your knowledge of the layout / arrangements etc has evaporated. For example, I am about to set up a Westbury / Exeter chain - It was 1999 I last operated Westbury according to the save files and although I can recall the general bits, I am going to have to re-familiarise myself with everything again. I appreciate it is all part of the challenge but anything to make life easier for us users that can only spare a few hours a week to the Sims is welcome in my view....Something like this would be really useful - I have lost count of the times when calls from level crossings are left ringing for ages as I just can't seem to find them on the Sim.......Couldn't one simply pause the sim, locate the crossing, and resume the sim? Sure, it may not be the most realistic...But I would imagine it's not realistic in real life to have a signaler actively in control, who is not aware of the locations of level crossings within their scope. My two cents. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Newhampshires, UKTrainMan |
| Go to event 03/03/2022 at 16:39 #145548 | |
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Anothersignalman
72 posts |
flabberdacks in post 145508 said:In the mean time, most sims have shortcut keys, where you can press 1, 2, 3 etc on the number row of your keyboard and it should progressively step across the sim. In that case, I'm guessing a relatively easy way to make my requested feature work would be to have each message location keyed to those same numbers via a lookup table. Is that doable? Highlighting the actual area of concern can come later, but for now knowing absolutely that whatever you're looking for is on the screen in front of you, and that you don't need to scroll either way, would be useful. As for the realism aspect - most signallers, even relievers, probably only have to be familiar with ten or maybe twenty boxes? There's about twenty-five free simulations and over a hundred total to date, so I'm guessing around four or five hundred distinct panels that a Simsig operator may need to be familiar with. For the new North Kent simulation I've been using google maps and streetview to find where various stations, junctions etc are because its faster than looking through the whole diagram, but that might not work for underground systems. Asking players to pause the sim regularly isn't practical for those of us who can only spare an hour or two at a time, and probably causes issues with multi-player games as well? Log in to reply The following user said thank you: UKTrainMan |
| Go to event 03/03/2022 at 16:44 #145550 | |
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Anothersignalman
72 posts |
bill_gensheet in post 145517 said:...crossings could be named to correspond to the shortcut key if desired by the author. That sounds like a good idea. Perhaps the next simulation, whatever it is, could experiment with that naming system for locations, and if it works as desired and improves the user experience, it could be retrofitted to earlier sims as time permits? Since it's just changing the names of locations and not any of the background programming, it should avoid issues of providing a whole new feature? Log in to reply The following user said thank you: UKTrainMan |
| Go to event 03/03/2022 at 17:14 #145553 | |
postal
5190 posts |
Anothersignalman in post 145548 said:flabberdacks in post 145508 said:This is reprising a discussion that has been going on since time immemorial. There are those who are drawn to SimSig because of the way it strives to face the user with the same challenges as face the person on the real-life panel and those who are drawn to SimSig because they are games players. Those in the first camp accept as part of the challenge the task of learning and understanding the foibles of each workstation and are not deterred by the need to do some hard yards rather than getting instant gratification. Those in the second camp are taken with the games-playing aspect of SimSig and there are regular new topics suggesting some sort of additional coding or changes to the presentation so that the game playing is easier and doesn't require so many of the hard yards. This thread has now added a new dimension in that the hard yards of learning about the panel or workstation are replaced by the (to my mind) equally hard yards of Google maps and Streetview.In the mean time, most sims have shortcut keys, where you can press 1, 2, 3 etc on the number row of your keyboard and it should progressively step across the sim. As a user for many years, I would prefer the current ethos of trying to be as realistic as possible rather than seeing suggestions to tweak things under the bonnet so as to make it easier for those who prefer to see things working straight away without any learning curve. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 03/03/2022 at 19:03 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Meld, flabberdacks, Mikhail, DriverCurran, bugsy, Dick, JWNoctis |
| Go to event 03/03/2022 at 21:42 #145557 | |
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Kage
65 posts |
I don't think a suggestion like this has anything to do with realism, or making it 'easier', it's a QoL convenience\learning aid. Do you not use the Train List? That's certainly not realistic. Features like this could be ignored, if you feel it would detract from your experience. Personally, I would love to have a basic 'find' command, especially for signal #'s and level crossings, I always spend too much time looking for those. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Dionysusnu, UKTrainMan, Anothersignalman |
| Go to event 03/03/2022 at 21:49 #145558 | |
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Dionysusnu
575 posts |
Kage in post 145557 said:Do you not use the Train List? That's certainly not realistic.This is a good point. SimSig already has multiple features that are not at all realistic, but crucially, they're all entirely optional. If you don't like them, just don't use them. They won't get in your way. Although that, by itself, is not a reason to add features that are fundamentally unrealistic, others in this thread have made solid comparisons between real signallers having area knowledge from experience, where SimSignallers do (or can) not always have that same knowledge. I think this feature would be a solid compensation. TL;DR SimSig already has unrealistic features, but they're optional. Just like this would be. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: UKTrainMan |
| Go to event 03/03/2022 at 22:16 #145559 | |
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postal
5190 posts |
Dionysusnu in post 145558 said:Kage in post 145557 said:Thank you (and Kage) for proving my point.Do you not use the Train List? That's certainly not realistic.This is a good point. SimSig already has multiple features that are not at all realistic, but crucially, they're all entirely optional. If you don't like them, just don't use them. They won't get in your way. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Go to event 04/03/2022 at 00:56 #145564 | |
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Kage
65 posts |
Quote:Thank you (and Kage) for proving my point.Your point being that suggested features that "dumb down" sims are bad? I agree 100%. Searching\filtering the information available in a sim is not in that category. SimSig is an adaption, and if it was a 1:1 perfect representation, you would find it extremely frustrating to use. The only paged sim I still play is Cambridge, as anything older than that lacks newer UI niceties. As for the OP's suggestion, you wouldn't get a message to begin with (No message list!) that a train is stopped at S101, you wouldn't have a train list to see its status, and when you finally got a call from that train, you would know where S101 is due to your training, and familiarity. You would also be able to see where that train is as you would have the whole area in view in multiple screens. I don't think SimSig switching from paged to scrolly made it less realistic. There is simply too much information for anyone to remember anything but a fraction of it. I don't believe you can right click signals on real IECCs, you have to open a detail screen, again an adaption to be workable on PC's. From what I understand, IECC's are early 80's technology, and more modern UI concepts didn't really exist\feasible yet. I don't like having to having the only way to find a signal is to right click everything in an area, and I can never seem to find some LC's even when there's only a handful  I generally play a simulation for a few days at a time, then go on to the next one on the list, so it can be months between revisiting a sim, so I have lots of sticky notes, especially things that are non-obvious or non-standard. I like the complexity. I don't really use ARS. I prefer older era timetables with lots of complex shunting and loco moves, that's why I've bought most of available sims, rather than ones from 'other' providers. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: UKTrainMan, Dionysusnu |
| Go to event 04/03/2022 at 09:04 #145567 | |
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kbarber
1710 posts |
Of course the old time relief signalmen often made up a notebook for themselves, with the salient features of each box/panel written down. Often including the workarounds. So at one location where the old Reg 31 (shunting into forward section) was authorised in a section worked by Rotary Block, there was a note in one reliefman's book that when Train Entering Section was given the needle was not to be turned to Train On Line, but instead the Line Clear Release button should be pressed. That sort of thing was how they kept - sometimes very extensive - rosters of boxes in their heads, including the places they hardly ever went (the places the regular men would always do 12 hours and freeze out the reliefs). A roster of thirty or forty boxes was probably about par for the course for a senior relief signalman back in the day; the keen ones (on overtime that is) could extend that beyond fifty without too much trouble. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: postal, flabberdacks, JWNoctis |
| Go to event 04/03/2022 at 09:14 #145568 | |
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postal
5190 posts |
Kage in post 145564 said:Quote:Please do not put words in my mouth. My point is that there is a conflict between "signallers" and "gamers". The two communities want different things from SimSig which are probably irreconcilable. My (and your) personal opinions are an outcome of my main point rather than being the main point.Thank you (and Kage) for proving my point.Your point being that suggested features that "dumb down" sims are bad? I agree 100%. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |