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Loco Diagram/Working Database/Respsitory 01/03/2022 at 10:21 #145495
03piggs
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Hi all.

A recent post on the BRCS groups.io about available resources for railway operations in since 1948 made me think about what could be done to improve the situation.

Robert Carroll has done an amazing job on that group to provide copies of Carriage Working Notices, Notes for loading of Vans, and I think even a few mu diagrams too.

One of the most rare is loco diagrams (also know as loco workings). Some can be found on society websites and some other groups that deal with a specific area. Something that would be useful would be some sort of database/repository similar to what Robert has done.

I have a few diagrams that I would be willing to include/add to such a collection but where or how this could be done I'm not sure. Also, I don't know who would be willing to add to this and anyone with the skills to compile this.

Any ideas?

Stu

PS; i have put this up on several other groups, so sorry if you have seen it before

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Loco Diagram/Working Database/Respsitory 01/03/2022 at 16:26 #145498
GeoffM
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Do you mean a repository for physical paper copies, a repository for electronic copies, or simply an index of where to find copies? It's a good idea, whichever way it's done. When we do older eras for sims, finding older documents can be challenging.

I was clearing out the garage a few weeks ago and found a knee high stack of WTTs that I really should have sent to a safe place rather than bringing to the US...

SimSig Boss
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Loco Diagram/Working Database/Respsitory 02/03/2022 at 07:42 #145510
03piggs
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Sorry, I completly forgot to mention that!

Was thinking of a digital repository for any time, any region, and to be of loco and mu's.

The way Robert Carroll has done his is by using a Google Drive, but not sure how that would be because of the size of the files. Any other way it could be done so that it would be open to all?

Stu

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Loco Diagram/Working Database/Respsitory 02/03/2022 at 09:22 #145512
postal
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03piggs in post 145510 said:
Sorry, I completly forgot to mention that!

Was thinking of a digital repository for any time, any region, and to be of loco and mu's.

The way Robert Carroll has done his is by using a Google Drive, but not sure how that would be because of the size of the files. Any other way it could be done so that it would be open to all?

Stu
The work Robert Carroll has done has created an invaluable source of data for those creating SimSig heritage TTs (I'm sure 58050 and VInce will second that view). The data is held as part of the site dedicated to BR Loco-hauled Coaching Stock from 1948 (https://brcoachingstock.groups.io/g/main). To see how his repository is laid out, click on the "Files" link from the Group home page, then the "Carriage Workings" link and finally "BRCS_Carriage-Working-links_dd-mm-yy.pdf" - the date is updated when information is updated. IIRC you need to register to access the group but I have never had anything untoward sent to my e-mail since registering as far as I can tell.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Loco Diagram/Working Database/Respsitory 02/03/2022 at 16:41 #145524
58050
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In my collection of loco diagrams covering from the erly 1970s through to the mid 1990s is vast. I'd makea couple of points here. My collection cost me around £2,000 & some of the stuff I've got I had when I was a loco controller in BR days during my railway career. Apart from the fact that it would take a long time to scan it's not something I'd be prepared to do for free as I had to pay for most of it & also to scan it all would mean I'd have to stop all my timetabling projects for about a month which again isn't something I'd be prepared to do. I've got around 70+ sets of loco diagrams in total as a guess & many more things apart from that. Loco diagrams can be found on e-bay, but like the rest of us unless you kept back what you was given during your railway career which was free to enable you to do your job owt off e-bay costs money. Creating timetables for SimSig is something I want to do & I don't get paid for it[which I'm happy to do], but I'm also a stickler for accuracy when creating timetables hence I use loco diagrams for TTs I have the loco diagrams for as they show you what the loco is booked to do before & after the train it is diagrammed to work which WTTs don't tell you. Talking about scanning loco diagrams I'm about to scan some sets of loco diagrams for a close friend of mine who I've known for approx. 22 years. These diagrams are for Carlisle Kingmoor Depot Cl.40 loco diagrams dated 1980 & Cl.76 & Cl.77 DC electric loco diagrams for May, 1976 & May 1977. But I'm only doing this as he's a close friend.
Last edited: 02/03/2022 at 16:51 by 58050
Reason: corrected typo

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Loco Diagram/Working Database/Respsitory 02/03/2022 at 20:22 #145528
03piggs
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postal in post 145512 said:
03piggs in post 145510 said:
Sorry, I completly forgot to mention that!

Was thinking of a digital repository for any time, any region, and to be of loco and mu's.

The way Robert Carroll has done his is by using a Google Drive, but not sure how that would be because of the size of the files. Any other way it could be done so that it would be open to all?

Stu
The work Robert Carroll has done has created an invaluable source of data for those creating SimSig heritage TTs (I'm sure 58050 and VInce will second that view). The data is held as part of the site dedicated to BR Loco-hauled Coaching Stock from 1948 (https://brcoachingstock.groups.io/g/main). To see how his repository is laid out, click on the "Files" link from the Group home page, then the "Carriage Workings" link and finally "BRCS_Carriage-Working-links_dd-mm-yy.pdf" - the date is updated when information is updated. IIRC you need to register to access the group but I have never had anything untoward sent to my e-mail since registering as far as I can tell.
thanks postal.

Also being a member of that group, id agree with you that I've never had anything untoward sent to my email either.

Maybe setting up a similar Google Drive with Diagram files?

Stu

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Loco Diagram/Working Database/Respsitory 02/03/2022 at 20:32 #145529
03piggs
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58050 in post 145524 said:
In my collection of loco diagrams covering from the erly 1970s through to the mid 1990s is vast. I'd makea couple of points here. My collection cost me around £2,000 & some of the stuff I've got I had when I was a loco controller in BR days during my railway career. Apart from the fact that it would take a long time to scan it's not something I'd be prepared to do for free as I had to pay for most of it & also to scan it all would mean I'd have to stop all my timetabling projects for about a month which again isn't something I'd be prepared to do. I've got around 70+ sets of loco diagrams in total as a guess & many more things apart from that. Loco diagrams can be found on e-bay, but like the rest of us unless you kept back what you was given during your railway career which was free to enable you to do your job owt off e-bay costs money. Creating timetables for SimSig is something I want to do & I don't get paid for it[which I'm happy to do], but I'm also a stickler for accuracy when creating timetables hence I use loco diagrams for TTs I have the loco diagrams for as they show you what the loco is booked to do before & after the train it is diagrammed to work which WTTs don't tell you. Talking about scanning loco diagrams I'm about to scan some sets of loco diagrams for a close friend of mine who I've known for approx. 22 years. These diagrams are for Carlisle Kingmoor Depot Cl.40 loco diagrams dated 1980 & Cl.76 & Cl.77 DC electric loco diagrams for May, 1976 & May 1977. But I'm only doing this as he's a close friend.
I completely agree with you 58050.

All the diagrams I have, I have bought off of ebay, and I don't want to think about how much I have spent on them...

Personally, Id prefer something like Google Drive to contain the files but for it to be open for those that wish to contribute to it can add what they like from their own collections. I appreciate that some won't want to contribute due to time, etc, and I respect that, but at the same time, I'd appreciate some to come forward, so I can see how viable something like this is, as I'm sure the result would be greatly appreciated.

I apologize if this comes across as I'm having a moan. But any ideas would be appreciated because I'm a little stumped on what the best option is for this.

Stu

Last edited: 02/03/2022 at 20:54 by 03piggs
Reason: None given

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Loco Diagram/Working Database/Respsitory 02/03/2022 at 21:08 #145533
58050
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03piggs in post 145529 said:
58050 in post 145524 said:
In my collection of loco diagrams covering from the erly 1970s through to the mid 1990s is vast. I'd makea couple of points here. My collection cost me around £2,000 & some of the stuff I've got I had when I was a loco controller in BR days during my railway career. Apart from the fact that it would take a long time to scan it's not something I'd be prepared to do for free as I had to pay for most of it & also to scan it all would mean I'd have to stop all my timetabling projects for about a month which again isn't something I'd be prepared to do. I've got around 70+ sets of loco diagrams in total as a guess & many more things apart from that. Loco diagrams can be found on e-bay, but like the rest of us unless you kept back what you was given during your railway career which was free to enable you to do your job owt off e-bay costs money. Creating timetables for SimSig is something I want to do & I don't get paid for it[which I'm happy to do], but I'm also a stickler for accuracy when creating timetables hence I use loco diagrams for TTs I have the loco diagrams for as they show you what the loco is booked to do before & after the train it is diagrammed to work which WTTs don't tell you. Talking about scanning loco diagrams I'm about to scan some sets of loco diagrams for a close friend of mine who I've known for approx. 22 years. These diagrams are for Carlisle Kingmoor Depot Cl.40 loco diagrams dated 1980 & Cl.76 & Cl.77 DC electric loco diagrams for May, 1976 & May 1977. But I'm only doing this as he's a close friend.
I completely agree with you 58050.

All the diagrams I have, I have bought off of ebay, and I don't want to think about how much I have spent on them...

Personally, Id prefer something like a Google Drive, but for it to be for those that wish to contribute to it can add what they like. I appreciate that some won't want to contribute due to time, etc, and I respect that, but at the same time, id appreciate some to come forward, so we can see how viable something like this is...or maybe its a 'build it and they will come' sort of thing?

Any ideas would be appreciated because I'm a little stumped on what the best option is.

Stu
Loco diagrams by there very nature are very rare to come across. I was talking to another sim-sigger the other day & said to him if only back in the early 1990s you could have saved everything you printed off DIADS[which was the system BR used for traincrew & loco diagrams] & kept them all you'd need a fleet of artics to get it all moved as well as the booked loco diagrams which usually lasted 6 months to match the WTT change-overs you also had weekly & daily amendments too. That's how the loco controllers simplifiers were made up to do the job in the controls. They are as rare as hens teeth hence the reason they cost quite a bit to buy & as time marches on they'll get even rarer. DIADS system isn't used on todays railway from what I'm told. I kept some loco diagrams covering the post BR era dated 1994-95 covering Trainload Freight South East/Mainline Freight & some Trainload West aka Transrail & Trainload Freight NE aka Loadhaul. But those are the most up to date loco diagrrams I've got. Personally I'm more intereted in pre 1994 the BR period. The problem is the time it would take to scan them all. The other question is who would benefit from them cos not everyone on here writes BR era timetables? In some ways it's a good idea cos all the stuff you & I have is in paper format & if fire broke out you'd run the risk of losing everything whereas if it was all backup eletronically you'd still be able to replace any that got destroyed or damaged. That said it maybe worth sorting something out like you've mentionedas a backup for the future.

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Loco Diagram/Working Database/Respsitory 03/03/2022 at 15:09 #145545
03piggs
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58050 in post 145533 said:
03piggs in post 145529 said:
58050 in post 145524 said:
In my collection of loco diagrams covering from the erly 1970s through to the mid 1990s is vast. I'd makea couple of points here. My collection cost me around £2,000 & some of the stuff I've got I had when I was a loco controller in BR days during my railway career. Apart from the fact that it would take a long time to scan it's not something I'd be prepared to do for free as I had to pay for most of it & also to scan it all would mean I'd have to stop all my timetabling projects for about a month which again isn't something I'd be prepared to do. I've got around 70+ sets of loco diagrams in total as a guess & many more things apart from that. Loco diagrams can be found on e-bay, but like the rest of us unless you kept back what you was given during your railway career which was free to enable you to do your job owt off e-bay costs money. Creating timetables for SimSig is something I want to do & I don't get paid for it[which I'm happy to do], but I'm also a stickler for accuracy when creating timetables hence I use loco diagrams for TTs I have the loco diagrams for as they show you what the loco is booked to do before & after the train it is diagrammed to work which WTTs don't tell you. Talking about scanning loco diagrams I'm about to scan some sets of loco diagrams for a close friend of mine who I've known for approx. 22 years. These diagrams are for Carlisle Kingmoor Depot Cl.40 loco diagrams dated 1980 & Cl.76 & Cl.77 DC electric loco diagrams for May, 1976 & May 1977. But I'm only doing this as he's a close friend.
I completely agree with you 58050.

All the diagrams I have, I have bought off of ebay, and I don't want to think about how much I have spent on them...

Personally, Id prefer something like a Google Drive, but for it to be for those that wish to contribute to it can add what they like. I appreciate that some won't want to contribute due to time, etc, and I respect that, but at the same time, id appreciate some to come forward, so we can see how viable something like this is...or maybe its a 'build it and they will come' sort of thing?

Any ideas would be appreciated because I'm a little stumped on what the best option is.

Stu
Loco diagrams by there very nature are very rare to come across. I was talking to another sim-sigger the other day & said to him if only back in the early 1990s you could have saved everything you printed off DIADS[which was the system BR used for traincrew & loco diagrams] & kept them all you'd need a fleet of artics to get it all moved as well as the booked loco diagrams which usually lasted 6 months to match the WTT change-overs you also had weekly & daily amendments too. That's how the loco controllers simplifiers were made up to do the job in the controls. They are as rare as hens teeth hence the reason they cost quite a bit to buy & as time marches on they'll get even rarer. DIADS system isn't used on todays railway from what I'm told. I kept some loco diagrams covering the post BR era dated 1994-95 covering Trainload Freight South East/Mainline Freight & some Trainload West aka Transrail & Trainload Freight NE aka Loadhaul. But those are the most up to date loco diagrrams I've got. Personally I'm more intereted in pre 1994 the BR period. The problem is the time it would take to scan them all. The other question is who would benefit from them cos not everyone on here writes BR era timetables? In some ways it's a good idea cos all the stuff you & I have is in paper format & if fire broke out you'd run the risk of losing everything whereas if it was all backup eletronically you'd still be able to replace any that got destroyed or damaged. That said it maybe worth sorting something out like you've mentionedas a backup for the future.
I agree it would take a lot of time to scan and to put it into a single pdf, as well as clean up if the scan is a little dark. I've got a copy of the unit and crew diagrams for the lea valley dated 21/11/1960 and I'm thinking how I can fit that under the scanner without braking it! 😂

If this is viable, I was going to open it to other groups, as this kind of information would be of benefit to both historians and railway modelers. Also, I'd prefer whoever wants to add to it to be able to add what they want but that raises the problem that someone could add something that shouldn't be there.

Stu

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Loco Diagram/Working Database/Respsitory 05/03/2022 at 19:07 #145593
03piggs
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Hi all,

Just an update for those that were interested in this project.

I have created a Google Drive that could be used to store diagrams/workings.

So far, I have had no responses of anyone who is willing to contribute (Ive asked on several forums/groups) so as far as I can see, this is a non starter unless some come forward.

Anything from 1948 (or earlier. Unlikely due to age) to 1995 locomotive or multiple unit diagrams is what wouold be included in this. If you do wish to help, please DM me.

Stu

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Loco Diagram/Working Database/Respsitory 22/03/2022 at 09:18 #145816
03piggs
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Hi all, 

This has been created to house digital Loco & Unit Workings from 1948-1997.

Below are the links to the various Regions

ER:  https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ljn_LFeXtzif37z7aIZtWdQWSKrjBASH?usp=sharing

LMR: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-33GzMkw54quSxC-Lap5w7Dpv9iqAZ9y?usp=sharing

NER: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1vK_zBG8dPcWYS3pA1z-uD-wQJurb7qUE?usp=sharing

ScR: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1j8xxnJm_h0wqMMOQfoRbeAfG9dkgEhDN?usp=sharing

SR: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1tSLD2Q3A0n6KoAHafd16uv4wHCCsjzx1?usp=sharing

WR:  https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17XWBCYz3klC6pJEXjh76iPaxaTSYXVbQ?usp=sharing

Please Note: Not all folders will contain diagrams as this is still a work in progress.
If you can contribute any documents, please let me know privately. 

Stuart Pigg
Loco & Multiple Unit Workings Drive Owner

Last edited: 22/03/2022 at 21:07 by GeoffM
Reason: None given

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Loco Diagram/Working Database/Respsitory 22/03/2022 at 20:39 #145833
lazzer
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I think the WR link needs editing, as the "WR:" bit appears to be part of it.
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Loco Diagram/Working Database/Respsitory 22/03/2022 at 21:09 #145834
GeoffM
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lazzer in post 145833 said:
I think the WR link needs editing, as the "WR:" bit appears to be part of it.
Thanks - I fixed one and didn't notice that one. I'm not sure why it was a problem anyway - not OP's fault.

SimSig Boss
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Loco Diagram/Working Database/Respsitory 24/06/2022 at 16:58 #146963
03piggs
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Hi all,

The links for this drive on the other thread (Loco & Multiple Units Diagrams/Workings on Google Drive) have bee disabled.

This is due to an email I have received threatening legal action over this drive.

Until this dispute has been resolved, I regret to say that this data base will be suspended.

Many apologies,

Stuart Pigg
Loco & Multiple Unit Workings Drive Owner

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Loco Diagram/Working Database/Respsitory 02/08/2022 at 11:35 #147440
03piggs
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Hi all,

The links for this drive on the other thread (Loco & Multiple Units Diagrams/Workings on Google Drive) should be re-activated this week.

A post will be made on that thread when it has been reactivated.

Many apologies for those who have tried to access it,

Stuart Pigg
Loco & Multiple Unit Workings Drive Owner

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