Upcoming Games

No games to display

Add a game

Who's Online

All RAIB Reports

You are here: Home > Forum > Miscellaneous > The real thing (anything else rail-oriented) > All RAIB Reports

Page 13 of 17

All RAIB Reports 14/05/2016 at 01:28 #82315
RainbowNines
Avatar
255 posts
Interestingly RAIB has also released its annual report where it refers to the several near misses involving track workers as a key focus this year.

To think we had only one fatality at Grantham, after incidents in Wales, at Hest Bank and at Bryn is certainly luck rather than judgement, imo.

Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 14/05/2016 at 08:22 #82320
Danny252
Avatar
1439 posts
I seem to recall they did a special "feature" on such incidents a year or two back, where they covered several near-misses into a single report. Perhaps not much improvement since then?
Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 14/05/2016 at 09:06 #82322
RainbowNines
Avatar
255 posts
I can't recall but you're probably correct... In any case, they've launched a class investigation into the safety of track workers on open lines, and it's one of their key "important recurrent issues" for this year.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/522528/AR2015_160505.pdf

This report has Civil Service written all over it! But it is a good overview of the work done through the year and the progression against recommendations made.

Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 14/05/2016 at 20:01 #82341
Danny252
Avatar
1439 posts
This was the one I was thinking of, focusing on several cases where improper safety arrangements led to near misses: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/454946/R142015_150820_Engineering_Protection_Irregularities.pdf

(Being only from August last year, the current work is perhaps more of a continuation, rather than something separate)

Last edited: 14/05/2016 at 20:04 by Danny252
Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 01/06/2016 at 22:08 #82858
AndyG
Avatar
1774 posts
Online
RAIB has today released its report into a freight train derailment at Angerstein Junction, south east London, 3 June 2015.

R102016_Angerstein_Junction.pdf

I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
Last edited: 01/06/2016 at 22:09 by AndyG
Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 02/06/2016 at 09:37 #82864
Danny252
Avatar
1439 posts
And for anyone else having a feeling of deja vu:
Quote:
A similar derailment occurred at the same location on Wednesday 2 April 2014 (paragraph 102)

(RAIB Report 11/2015)

Last edited: 02/06/2016 at 09:38 by Danny252
Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 02/06/2016 at 10:42 #82865
AndyG
Avatar
1774 posts
Online
" said:
And for anyone else having a feeling of deja vu:
Quote:
A similar derailment occurred at the same location on Wednesday 2 April 2014 (paragraph 102)

(RAIB Report 11/2015)
and January/February 2015, para 103, but that one got away.

I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 27/06/2016 at 15:21 #83247
AndyG
Avatar
1774 posts
Online
RAIB has today released its report into a freight train derailment near Langworth, Lincolnshire, 30 June 2015.

R112016_Langworth.pdf

I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 30/06/2016 at 19:09 #83314
AndyG
Avatar
1774 posts
Online
RAIB has today released its report into passenger trapped in train doors and dragged along the platform at Hayes & Harlington station, 25 July 2015.

R122016_Hayes_and_Harlington.pdf

I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 14/07/2016 at 11:20 #83574
AndyG
Avatar
1774 posts
Online
RAIB has today released its report into a freight train collision near Logan, East Ayrshire, 1 August 2015.

R132016_Logan.pdf

I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 14/07/2016 at 18:43 #83576
Jersey_Mike
Avatar
250 posts
" said:
RAIB has today released its report into a freight train collision near Logan, East Ayrshire, 1 August 2015.

R132016_Logan.pdf
Having both possessions and work-sites as separate things is interesting. Also how "at caution" allows for stopping within full range of vision up to 40mph instead of half vision up to 20mph and that a train could be allowed to operate at such speed with an obstruction ahead. Is it possible to have trains operate on the track adjacent to where work is being performed at maximum authorized speed?

Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 14/07/2016 at 20:15 #83577
GeoffM
Avatar
4074 posts
" said:
Also how "at caution" allows for stopping within full range of vision up to 40mph instead of half vision up to 20mph
Presumably you're used to the American way of allowing trains to head towards each other in a block hence the "stopping in half the distance you can see" so the two trains can gently nose up to each other. We don't allow that unless there is some physical demarcation between the two (eg marker boards).

I'll let others more knowledgeable than I answer your other questions.

SimSig Boss. Website issues: Check here first: https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=newwebsite
Last edited: 14/07/2016 at 20:20 by GeoffM
Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: arabianights
All RAIB Reports 14/07/2016 at 20:35 #83578
Steamer
Avatar
2806 posts
" said:
Is it possible to have trains operate on the track adjacent to where work is being performed at maximum authorized speed?
Where there's a reasonable gap between Fast and Slow/Relief lines, it's quite possible to have major work taking place on one set with trains running on the other. Not sure what the speed limit situation is- presumably it depends on the distance between the lines and the prevailing maximum speed limit on the open line. In addition, some types of maintenance/inspections take place with the line open normally and lookouts protecting the staff on the track. I'm not sure what the limits are on working on one track of a double-track line and running bi-di over the other.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: arabianights
All RAIB Reports 14/07/2016 at 20:38 #83579
KymriskaDraken
Avatar
622 posts
" said:
" said:
RAIB has today released its report into a freight train collision near Logan, East Ayrshire, 1 August 2015.

R132016_Logan.pdf
Having both possessions and work-sites as separate things is interesting. Also how "at caution" allows for stopping within full range of vision up to 40mph instead of half vision up to 20mph and that a train could be allowed to operate at such speed with an obstruction ahead. Is it possible to have trains operate on the track adjacent to where work is being performed at maximum authorized speed?
It's all to do with where the Person In Charge Of The Possession (called the PICOP) can place his detonators to protect the possession. Almost always the detonators are placed just in advance of a signal at the start of the possession and just in rear of a signal at the other end. Now, the two signals can be miles apart, but the worksite(s) can be fairly close together. For example there could be a team changing a rail in one place, and half a mile away there is another team digging ballast.

If each worksite had to have its own possession it could get quite complicated - more forms for the Signalman and PICOP to fill-in for one thing - and there might not be suitable signals, especially on an Absolute Block line. Splitting the possession into worksites (a sort of possession within the possession) makes the process easier, and makes it less likely for things to go wrong.

The Rules say that each worksite must be protected by marker boards, and authority for train movements within the worksite can only be given by the man in charge of the worksite (called an Engineering Supervisor). Outside the worksites, but within the possession the authority is given by the PICOP, and between the detonator protection and the signal movements are authorised by the Signalman. The PICOP must get the Signalman's permission before allowing a train to leave the possession, and the Signalman must get the PICOP's permission before allowing a train to enter. I think that the current Rule Book says that there should only be one movement at a time within worksites, but I seem to remember from my early days on the PWay in the 1990s that more than one movement was allowed.


Kev

Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: arabianights
All RAIB Reports 14/07/2016 at 20:44 #83580
KymriskaDraken
Avatar
622 posts
" said:
" said:
Is it possible to have trains operate on the track adjacent to where work is being performed at maximum authorized speed?
Where there's a reasonable gap between Fast and Slow/Relief lines, it's quite possible to have major work taking place on one set with trains running on the other. Not sure what the speed limit situation is- presumably it depends on the distance between the lines and the prevailing maximum speed limit on the open line. In addition, some types of maintenance/inspections take place with the line open normally and lookouts protecting the staff on the track. I'm not sure what the limits are on working on one track of a double-track line and running bi-di over the other.
In my days on the Pway (early 1990s) trains would run at linespeed on the open line, usually under Single Line Working conditions. I can't remember if we used to have a Lookout Man then, but we certainly had one when we were working in the daytime with trains running normally. The Lookout had to be able to see a certain distance in order to give a warning x seconds before a train approached. I can't remember what the x was, but the sighting distance depended on linespeed, and we used to have an extra lookout in order to see around curves and he gave the warning by waving a blue and white checked flag (which the site lookout would also have and would wave it as an acknowledgement before warning the gang with his "Acme Blaster" whistle).

These days I suspect that the safe working system (or whatever it is called) might call for a temporary fence between the open and closed lines, and/or a speed restriction on the open line.


Kev

Last edited: 14/07/2016 at 20:44 by KymriskaDraken
Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: arabianights
All RAIB Reports 18/07/2016 at 14:53 #83628
Jersey_Mike
Avatar
250 posts
What's up with the continued use of detonators? Not only are they labour intensive to remove and apply after every train, they are generally ineffective due to modern cab-soundproofing standards. In the United States they almost completely vanished after they because an employee liability issue regarding misuse.

In North America possessions are usually run as a "joint authority" where a track Foreman has joint authority with the dispatcher to allow trains into the possession. Approach and stop markers are placed and the train contacts the foreman to get permission to pass them. Most times if only one track is being worked on trains can proceed past on the other at maximum authorized speed.

The alternative is to have watchmen on the lookout for approaching trains on adjacent tracks that then signal the employees to get into the clear.

Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 18/07/2016 at 18:03 #83634
KymriskaDraken
Avatar
622 posts
" said:
What's up with the continued use of detonators? Not only are they labour intensive to remove and apply after every train, they are generally ineffective due to modern cab-soundproofing standards. In the United States they almost completely vanished after they because an employee liability issue regarding misuse.
The Rules say that anyone placing detonators on the track, and expects them to be exploded by a train, must stand 30m away from them. That should be far enough to stop the person being injured. Of course, in the UK Messrs Sue, Grabbit and Runne don't get involved quite as much as their cousins in the US.

Apart from protecting possessions dets are really only used in an emergency. The only way a train would explode a det (apart from in an emergency) is if a semaphore Distant signal is being shot by a Handsignalman during fog or falling snow - and I am not sure if that practice still survives. As an emergency device dets are quite effective, as they are small and portable so they can be carried in driving cabs, guard's vans and so on, as well as personal issue equipment


Kev

Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 18/07/2016 at 18:10 #83635
Steamer
Avatar
2806 posts
" said:
The only way a train would explode a det (apart from in an emergency) is if a semaphore Distant signal is being shot by a Handsignalman during fog or falling snow - and I am not sure if that practice still survives.
I doubt it. The vast majority of distant signals are colour light these days, and those that aren't will use electric lamps, which are obviously brighter than their paraffin predecessors.

As a side note, am I right in thinking that the last paraffin lamps (now replaced) on NR were at Burneside Higher crossing, on the Windermere branch?

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Last edited: 18/07/2016 at 18:12 by Steamer
Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 18/07/2016 at 18:31 #83636
dwaynedibley
Avatar
24 posts
We don't do fog working on our area anymore. There are only a handful of occasions when dets would be used that I am aware of. The first is at the protection for a possession. The second is emergency protection of a train, the third is assistance protection for a failed train ( the only time when the dets should actually be run over!) and the last is when a hand signaller during temporary block working is displaying a red hand signal.

There are probably more occasions but they are the main ones.

Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 18/07/2016 at 18:39 #83637
Mikehax
Avatar
9 posts
" said:
" said:
" said:
RAIB has today released its report into a freight train collision near Logan, East Ayrshire, 1 August 2015.

R132016_Logan.pdf
Having both possessions and work-sites as separate things is interesting. Also how "at caution" allows for stopping within full range of vision up to 40mph instead of half vision up to 20mph and that a train could be allowed to operate at such speed with an obstruction ahead. Is it possible to have trains operate on the track adjacent to where work is being performed at maximum authorized speed?
It's all to do with where the Person In Charge Of The Possession (called the PICOP) can place his detonators to protect the possession. Almost always the detonators are placed just in advance of a signal at the start of the possession and just in rear of a signal at the other end. Now, the two signals can be miles apart, but the worksite(s) can be fairly close together. For example there could be a team changing a rail in one place, and half a mile away there is another team digging ballast.

Kev.

I think you'll find that for a T3, standard detonator protection is 400 metres beyond the protecting signal and 400 metres on the approach to the controlled signal immediately beyond the possession limits. Although I will agree that in many cases sub-standard protection is used where the distance is less than 400 metres.

Mike

Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 18/07/2016 at 19:37 #83640
KymriskaDraken
Avatar
622 posts
" said:
" said:
" said:
" said:
RAIB has today released its report into a freight train collision near Logan, East Ayrshire, 1 August 2015.

R132016_Logan.pdf
Having both possessions and work-sites as separate things is interesting. Also how "at caution" allows for stopping within full range of vision up to 40mph instead of half vision up to 20mph and that a train could be allowed to operate at such speed with an obstruction ahead. Is it possible to have trains operate on the track adjacent to where work is being performed at maximum authorized speed?
It's all to do with where the Person In Charge Of The Possession (called the PICOP) can place his detonators to protect the possession. Almost always the detonators are placed just in advance of a signal at the start of the possession and just in rear of a signal at the other end. Now, the two signals can be miles apart, but the worksite(s) can be fairly close together. For example there could be a team changing a rail in one place, and half a mile away there is another team digging ballast.

Kev.

I think you'll find that for a T3, standard detonator protection is 400 metres beyond the protecting signal and 400 metres on the approach to the controlled signal immediately beyond the possession limits. Although I will agree that in many cases sub-standard protection is used where the distance is less than 400 metres.

Mike
I know it's supposed to be 400m - I was simplifying for clarity. Sometimes the protection point can be moved if there are points involved so you might see something like B123 (COP 456A) in the Notice.


Kev

Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 03/08/2016 at 11:02 #83920
pedroathome
Avatar
395 posts
The RAIB has released a report into a collision with the Buffers at Kings Cross Station on the 17th September 2015

Report here

Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 04/08/2016 at 18:52 #83947
AndyG
Avatar
1774 posts
Online
RAIB has today released its report into a derailment at Knaresborough, 7 November 2015.

R162016_Knaresborough.pdf

I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 18/08/2016 at 09:45 #84144
AndyG
Avatar
1774 posts
Online
RAIB has today released its report into a collision between two trams at Shalesmoor, Sheffield, 22 October 2015.

R172016_Shalesmoor.pdf

I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
Log in to reply
All RAIB Reports 08/09/2016 at 08:17 #84580
AndyG
Avatar
1774 posts
Online
One that got missed:-
Overspeed at Fletton Junction, Peterborough 11 September 2015.

R142016_Fletton_Jn.pdf

I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
Log in to reply