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Thorne Crossing Failure

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Thorne Crossing Failure 29/04/2022 at 15:14 #146311
bugsy
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1348 posts
Sorry if this seems a daft question, but I'll ask anyway.

Both crossings at Thorne have failed when I have both Up and Down trains approaching. Should I activate the "Emergency Replacement" facility in this situation?
....


Edit: I've just used it anyway in case the answer is yes. If not, I'll go back to an earlier save.

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Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
Last edited: 29/04/2022 at 15:17 by bugsy
Reason: None given

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Thorne Crossing Failure 01/05/2022 at 12:33 #146327
rfw
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Not a daft question, no question is daft.


From what I understand, yes, this would be an appropriate use of the emergency replacement button.

According to RSSB GERRT-TS9:
You must not authorise any crossing user (the public) to pass over the crossing while the road-traffic signals are lit or barriers are down, no matter how long the failure may last.
If you are sure that the track circuit is occupied by a failed train, you may resume normal working; otherwise
You would arrange for local control to be taken by an attendant & for local police to be informed.
Until an attendant arrives
You must instruct the driver of each train which is to pass over the crossing to approach with caution and not pass over the crossing until they have made sure it is safe to do so
Trains cannot be authorised to pass over a crossing if the barriers have failed in the raised position and the road-traffic signals are not working

In SimSig terms, because they are automatic half barriers in a failed state due to a TCF. Use the emergency replacement and then authorise the trains past the signal. If both the crossings 'reset' to the raised state, maintain the protection on the up line until the TCF is cleared as detection for the crossing won't work in this direction. The track circuit should be able to operate the crossing on the down line, so this can work normally.


Should you want to read the GERT8000-TS9 Issue 4 document yourself here are some links:
This is the proper link to the RSSB document, it requires you to register for a free account - it takes less than 5 minutes.
https://www.rssb.co.uk/-/media/Project/RSSB/RssbWebsite/Documents/Registered/Rule-Books/2020/09/16/10/31/GERT8000-TS9-Iss-4.pdf
I also found the same document hosted on a random photographer's website here:
https://www.jonroma.net/media/rail/opdocs/world/uk/GERT8000-TS9%20Iss%204.pdf


I figure this advice is 2 days too late to be helpful & that you've just continued to run the simulation anyway

-RFW
Last edited: 01/05/2022 at 12:38 by rfw
Reason: Correction of teh to the & wnat to want. I can has type.

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Thorne Crossing Failure 01/05/2022 at 17:30 #146330
bugsy
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1348 posts
Thanks for your detailed explanation.

I waited for well over half an hour before the issue was resolved and had quite a backlog of trains to sort out.
But that was quite a bit of fun really

Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
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Thorne Crossing Failure 01/05/2022 at 18:27 #146332
jc92
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3.5 Failure of crossing equipment or
prolonged occupation of track circuits

3.5.1 Crossing alarm or advice of failure received

You must treat the crossing equipment as failed if an alarm
sounds, or you receive information indicating that any of the
following has happened.
• The road-traffic signals are not operating correctly.
• The barriers are other than fully raised or the road-traffic signals
are operating when no train is approaching.
• A failed train is occupying a controlling track circuit.
When any of the above happen, you must carry out
the requirements of regulation 3.6 in this module.
You must not authorise any crossing user to pass over the
crossing while the road-traffic signals are lit or the barriers are
lowered (or both), no matter how long the failure might last.
Instead, you must tell the crossing user to:
• wait until an attendant arrives, or
• take another route, avoiding the crossing.

3.6 Local control when the operation of
the crossing is immediately affected
You must arrange for local control to be taken at an AHBC as soon
as possible if any of the following happen.
• A failure of the equipment affects the normal operation of the
crossing.
• A train fails within the crossing controls.
• The normal flow of road traffic over the crossing is affected by
emergency roadworks or a road-traffic incident close to the crossing.

You must arrange for the civil police to be told.
Until an attendant has taken local control, you must instruct the
driver of each train which is required to pass over the crossing to:
• approach the crossing at caution
• not pass over it until the driver has made sure it is safe to do so.
However, if the barriers have failed in the raised position and the
road-traffic signals are not working, you must not authorise a train
to pass over the crossing until there is an attendant at the crossing.

-----

In this case, as an alarm has been received and the barriers and road traffic signals are not operating correctly, are not fully raised and are operative when no train is approaching, the equipment needs to be treated as failed and drivers stopped and cautioned past (no option for local control in SimSig.

The logic here is that while crossing users cannot be authorised over it, it doesn't mean they won't try it anyway after waiting a prolonged period. Stopping and cautioning a driver protects everyone as he will approach slowly so he can be seen and can stop short of any daredevil road users.

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Thorne Crossing Failure 01/05/2022 at 19:07 #146335
bugsy
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1348 posts
I can't recall exactly what happened but in a re-run from an earlier save the track circuit didn't fail and only one of the two crossings failed.

As the track circuit fault was rectified, leaving only the failed crossings, should I have instructed the train drivers to pass the signals at danger and proceed with caution? As I said previously, I waited until the crossing failures cleared, so I needn't have done this then?

Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
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Thorne Crossing Failure 01/05/2022 at 20:39 #146337
jc92
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3477 posts
The crossings shouldn't stay failed if there's no track circuit failure. The only other time you might get a failed indication is briefly if two trains pass in opposite direction and the barriers end up down for too long, although this should clear promptly after they've both passed.

In such a case you don't need to caution as you'll be able to see the crossings return to normal operation.

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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