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Which WTT are Class 9 GTR Thameslink schedules published?

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Which WTT are Class 9 GTR Thameslink schedules published? 14/11/2023 at 10:46 #154061
Giantray
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Anyone got idea which WTT GTR Thameslink Class 9 passenger trains are published in?

I have just downloaded WB01,WB02,WC01,WE01,WF02 & CJ01 and none of them show any GTR Class 9 Thameslink trains. The only reference to Class 700 are empties mentioned in CJ01. Very strange. I wondered if there was a separate WTT specific to Thameslink services. And as a Signaller at TBROC for over seven years, I have never seen a copy of any WTT, we use TRUST.

Professionalism mean nothing around a bunch of Amateur wannabees!
Last edited: 14/11/2023 at 10:48 by Giantray
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Which WTT are Class 9 GTR Thameslink schedules published? 14/11/2023 at 11:59 #154064
ajax103
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Giantray in post 154061 said:
Anyone got idea which WTT GTR Thameslink Class 9 passenger trains are published in?

I have just downloaded WB01,WB02,WC01,WE01,WF02 & CJ01 and none of them show any GTR Class 9 Thameslink trains. The only reference to Class 700 are empties mentioned in CJ01. Very strange. I wondered if there was a separate WTT specific to Thameslink services. And as a Signaller at TBROC for over seven years, I have never seen a copy of any WTT, we use TRUST.
I have no idea on the current timetable period BUT I can tell you that Network Rail did show the TL Class 9s in the May 2020/2021/2022 editions of the working timetable as in Section YA, it does show those services as it shows 9Y04 06:22 Ex Sevenoaks to Welwyn Garden City and 9J12 06:24 ex Horsham to Peterborough as two examples which can be found at either Network Rail's own archive online or at Timetable World.

I have no idea why they don't show this information for the May 2023 edition of the working timetable, might be worth asking Network Rail why this is?

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Which WTT are Class 9 GTR Thameslink schedules published? 15/11/2023 at 07:20 #154094
Giantray
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ajax103 in post 154064 said:
....I have no idea why they don't show this information for the May 2023 edition of the working timetable, might be worth asking Network Rail why this is?
I did a freedom of information request along with a general enquiry to Network Rail. The response I got was that WTTs have nothing to do with them as they are a Rail Infrastructure company. Advising me to contact GTR Thameslink. Yet another case I have come across, whereby employees in certain positions on Network Rail have no idea what their business does.

Never looked at YA section. I have just looked at YA and again for both Dec2022-May2023 and May2023-Dec2023 there are no GTR Thameslink Class 9s. Maybe it is how GTR THameslink are getting away with all the cancellations they have, there is no fixed working timetable for their trains. Shall have to look at archived ones as you mention.

Professionalism mean nothing around a bunch of Amateur wannabees!
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Which WTT are Class 9 GTR Thameslink schedules published? 15/11/2023 at 08:09 #154097
ajax103
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Giantray in post 154094 said:
ajax103 in post 154064 said:
....I have no idea why they don't show this information for the May 2023 edition of the working timetable, might be worth asking Network Rail why this is?
I did a freedom of information request along with a general enquiry to Network Rail. The response I got was that WTTs have nothing to do with them as they are a Rail Infrastructure company. Advising me to contact GTR Thameslink. Yet another case I have come across, whereby employees in certain positions on Network Rail have no idea what their business does.

Never looked at YA section. I have just looked at YA and again for both Dec2022-May2023 and May2023-Dec2023 there are no GTR Thameslink Class 9s. Maybe it is how GTR THameslink are getting away with all the cancellations they have, there is no fixed working timetable for their trains. Shall have to look at archived ones as you mention.
Well firstly Network Rail are wrong in saying WTTs are nothing to do with them as they produce them in the first place as they have both current WTTs and archived ones available on their site.

I believe station working books are produced by the TOC Train Planning Team in question though, might be worth asking GTR as they do them for set locations.

As to the archives above, I hope you find what you need and you're welcome.

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Which WTT are Class 9 GTR Thameslink schedules published? 16/11/2023 at 08:36 #154131
Giantray
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ajax103 in post 154097 said:


Well firstly Network Rail are wrong in saying WTTs are nothing to do with them as they produce them in the first place as they have both current WTTs and archived ones available on their site.

I believe station working books are produced by the TOC Train Planning Team in question though, might be worth asking GTR as they do them for set locations.

As to the archives above, I hope you find what you need and you're welcome.
Having worked in the railway industry for 40 years, having retired in September from Network Rail, I fully agree they are wrong. But then this was one of the primary reasons I took early retirement. There are too many people within Network Rail that are so blinkered, that they do not know what other departments within the company actually do. Long gone are the days of passionate railwaypeople who knew a lot about the industry, not only their own job. I used the email link on Network Rail's website initially. It bounced back saying it was no longer monitored and gave several email addresses. I used the email that said it was for anything relating to WTTs, an address to NWR's Capacity Planning. I got a response from A Project Management Assistant, Timetable Production, Capacity Planning, System Operator, who I thought with such a Title knew what I was talking about. Despite my concise explaination of what and where I was trying to get the information, I got this response;

"In order to be able to guide your email to the right person, please can you advise where you are currently looking for this information and I can do a little more digging?".

I began to wonder if the person knew what a Working Timetable was!? But saying that. In my last seven years working in an ROC, I had never seen a printed WTT anywhere, and very few of my colleagues knew what one was and they were Signallers!

Professionalism mean nothing around a bunch of Amateur wannabees!
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Which WTT are Class 9 GTR Thameslink schedules published? 16/11/2023 at 09:12 #154134
geswedey
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I am sure the attitude is who needs a WTT or a printed Passenger TT when you can look it up on a computer or smart phone (TRUST journey planners etc) Long gone are the days as a guard when you just had a diagram, the WTTs you required and a journal and you had to work it all out for yourself. Traincrew used Sheila in my old TOC which showed diagram and schedules of each train worked including subsequent calling points if relieved enroute thus making printed WTTs redundant.
Glyn Calvert ACIRO
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Which WTT are Class 9 GTR Thameslink schedules published? 16/11/2023 at 09:32 #154136
clive
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Giantray in post 154094 said:
ajax103 in post 154064 said:
....I have no idea why they don't show this information for the May 2023 edition of the working timetable, might be worth asking Network Rail why this is?
I did a freedom of information request along with a general enquiry to Network Rail. The response I got was that WTTs have nothing to do with them as they are a Rail Infrastructure company.
Write back requesting an internal review. That should get lawyers involved. Give a link to the WTTs so that they can see what you're talking about and point out it's a NR web site.

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The following user said thank you: Giantray
Which WTT are Class 9 GTR Thameslink schedules published? 16/11/2023 at 09:34 #154137
Hap
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geswedey in post 154134 said:
I am sure the attitude is who needs a WTT or a printed Passenger TT when you can look it up on a computer or smart phone (TRUST journey planners etc) Long gone are the days as a guard when you just had a diagram, the WTTs you required and a journal and you had to work it all out for yourself. Traincrew used Sheila in my old TOC which showed diagram and schedules of each train worked including subsequent calling points if relieved enroute thus making printed WTTs redundant.
I do not miss carrying about 3 WTTs and my pink book. You'd spend your booking on time getting half of your first train written down and then catch up with the rest of your diagram when on the train, THEN think about getting tickets done between door duties. haha. Thank god for simplifiers now.


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Which WTT are Class 9 GTR Thameslink schedules published? 16/11/2023 at 12:23 #154142
geswedey
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Agreed,

My Guards Bag was always quite well filled, as a Anglia Region based instructor who potentially took trainee Guards train working anywhere in the region. All the WTTs along with Rule Book, Sectional appendix etc, oh happy days.

Glyn Calvert ACIRO
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Which WTT are Class 9 GTR Thameslink schedules published? 20/11/2023 at 07:39 #154236
andyallen4014
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Hap in post 154137 said:
geswedey in post 154134 said:
I am sure the attitude is who needs a WTT or a printed Passenger TT when you can look it up on a computer or smart phone (TRUST journey planners etc) Long gone are the days as a guard when you just had a diagram, the WTTs you required and a journal and you had to work it all out for yourself. Traincrew used Sheila in my old TOC which showed diagram and schedules of each train worked including subsequent calling points if relieved enroute thus making printed WTTs redundant.
I do not miss carrying about 3 WTTs and my pink book. You'd spend your booking on time getting half of your first train written down and then catch up with the rest of your diagram when on the train, THEN think about getting tickets done between door duties. haha. Thank god for simplifiers now.

Really interesting stuff there, thanks for sharing.

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Which WTT are Class 9 GTR Thameslink schedules published? 12/12/2023 at 14:06 #154719
Giantray
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A follow up to my original post. I have been in contact with Network Rail under FOI (Freedom of information). It looks like there was an internal error and no one had noticed the GTR trains missing from the WTTs. They plan to publish correct WTTs by the end of the month. Apparrently, timetable informations is exempt from disclosure under Section 22 of FOIA. Because they plan to publish the data at a future date, they do not have to release the information as it is due to be published at a future date. In other words, I have to wait until they publish it.

I was thinking I cannot believe they didn't realise the information was missing. But having just retired from the railway and knowing the internal state it is in, I can believe it.

Professionalism mean nothing around a bunch of Amateur wannabees!
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Which WTT are Class 9 GTR Thameslink schedules published? 12/12/2023 at 17:07 #154724
Peter Bennet
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Section 22 Though it is caveated by it being "reasonable" to wait for publication.

Peter

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Which WTT are Class 9 GTR Thameslink schedules published? 13/12/2023 at 08:35 #154732
Philo
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They are included in the WTTs for the current timetable (starting december 2023).

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/the-timetable/working-timetable/

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