New Mills Central Stopping

Just a coincidence this didn't happen before the loader was updated!

150+156 you'll be starting beyond the signal but being AB, NM25 can be cleared even with the cab beyond.

That's fair enough! In most if not all cases where you've got a turnback signalled to passenger standards, though, you'll have a separate track circuit covering the points (which is almost always provided nowadays where you've got motor points or a mechanical facing point lock).

The AB/TCB thing is a bit of a personal crusade - we've got one location, a little mechanical box with semaphore stop signals both ways but working TCB in both directions, and it's incredible how many drivers insist that it must be AB because it's got semaphores!

The bit about expecting to be brought quite or nearly to a stand at each stop signal is a red herring - it's equally applicable in our little island of mechanical signalling on a TCB line (Swinderby, for what it's worth).

It's also true that, as you've shown in your example (which must be one of very very few, but cool all the same!), you can have semaphore signals with TCB

But hey anyway if you don't have a full understanding and your knowledge is full of useful shortcuts, tricks and simplifications there can be edge cases where you go completely wrong and perhaps this little trick could lead to a mistake being made when detained at a signal at danger during poor visibility for example. It's just, I dunno, I suppose it's not you I'm disagreeing with, I've just noticed (probably it's just me) a few examples in various places of people pedantically correcting drivers on things where the driver's understanding is much more helpful to them than the 2 page long footnote And I just feel a bit sorry for them But hey, maybe this isn't one of those cases

Just adding on to the topic randomly.

When you transition from AB to TCB at a box unless otherwise noted AB applies upto the home signal, then it's TCB beyond.

Going the other way AB from the section signal, TCB up to it.

I think the entire line to and past Elsenham was semaphore and TCB. (I have an old Sectional somewhere, but would have to dig it out.)

TUT in post 130727 said:

But hey anyway if you don't have a full understanding and your knowledge is full of useful shortcuts, tricks and simplifications there can be edge cases where you go completely wrong and perhaps this little trick could lead to a mistake being made when detained at a signal at danger during poor visibility for example. It's just, I dunno, I suppose it's not you I'm disagreeing with, I've just noticed (probably it's just me) a few examples in various places of people pedantically correcting drivers on things where the driver's understanding is much more helpful to them than the 2 page long footnote And I just feel a bit sorry for them But hey, maybe this isn't one of those cases

In this case, I'd say that the best way to deal with semaphore stop signals is to forget all about the AB/TCB distinction and focus instead on the distinction between semaphores and colour lights! As you say, Stockport's an excellent example of the opposite case. Personally I find that a deep understanding of signalling principles and the operation of the signalling system helps me out no end as a driver, not just in cases like this but plenty of others where the signal sequence is nothing like you'll ever see in the classroom (e.g. a distant signal in an AB box that's associated with the first three stop signals but not the section signal, or the one with two intermediate block distants, each co-located with a stop signal within station limits!).

headshot119 in post 130728 said:

Just adding on to the topic randomly.

When you transition from AB to TCB at a box unless otherwise noted AB applies upto the home signal, then it's TCB beyond.

Going the other way AB from the section signal, TCB up to it.

I don't disagree (you worded it better than me!) - but where's it actually written down nowadays? I seem to remember that it's one of those things that came out of the Rule Book to go into company instructions, but I can't find it anywhere.

TUT in post 130727 said:

But hey anyway if you don't have a full understanding and your knowledge is full of useful shortcuts, tricks and simplifications there can be edge cases where you go completely wrong and perhaps this little trick could lead to a mistake being made when detained at a signal at danger during poor visibility for example. It's just, I dunno, I suppose it's not you I'm disagreeing with, I've just noticed (probably it's just me) a few examples in various places of people pedantically correcting drivers on things where the driver's understanding is much more helpful to them than the 2 page long footnote And I just feel a bit sorry for them But hey, maybe this isn't one of those cases

In this case, I'd say that the best way to deal with semaphore stop signals is to forget all about the AB/TCB distinction and focus instead on the distinction between semaphores and colour lights! As you say, Stockport's an excellent example of the opposite case. Personally I find that a deep understanding of signalling principles and the operation of the signalling system helps me out no end as a driver, not just in cases like this but plenty of others where the signal sequence is nothing like you'll ever see in the classroom (e.g. a distant signal in an AB box that's associated with the first three stop signals but not the section signal, or the one with two intermediate block distants, each co-located with a stop signal within station limits!).

headshot119 in post 130728 said:

Just adding on to the topic randomly.

When you transition from AB to TCB at a box unless otherwise noted AB applies upto the home signal, then it's TCB beyond.

Going the other way AB from the section signal, TCB up to it.

I don't disagree (you worded it better than me!) - but where's it actually written down nowadays? I seem to remember that it's one of those things that came out of the Rule Book to go into company instructions, but I can't find it anywhere.

In this case, I'd say that the best way to deal with semaphore stop signals is to forget all about the AB/TCB distinction and focus instead on the distinction between semaphores and colour lights! As you say, Stockport's an excellent example of the opposite case. Personally I find that a deep understanding of signalling principles and the operation of the signalling system helps me out no end as a driver, not just in cases like this but plenty of others where the signal sequence is nothing like you'll ever see in the classroom (e.g. a distant signal in an AB box that's associated with the first three stop signals but not the section signal, or the one with two intermediate block distants, each co-located with a stop signal within station limits!).

Late Turn in post 130736 said:

I don't disagree (you worded it better than me!) - but where's it actually written down nowadays? I seem to remember that it's one of those things that came out of the Rule Book to go into company instructions, but I can't find it anywhere.

National Operating Instructions (NOI) Unit 21.1 and Unit 22.1.

Late Turn in post 130736 said:

In this case, I'd say that the best way to deal with semaphore stop signals is to forget all about the AB/TCB distinction and focus instead on the distinction between semaphores and colour lights! As you say, Stockport's an excellent example of the opposite case. Personally I find that a deep understanding of signalling principles and the operation of the signalling system helps me out no end as a driver, not just in cases like this but plenty of others where the signal sequence is nothing like you'll ever see in the classroom (e.g. a distant signal in an AB box that's associated with the first three stop signals but not the section signal, or the one with two intermediate block distants, each co-located with a stop signal within station limits!).

Then you get into other none classroom examples like a 3 aspect colour light distant (Y YY G), reading onto a 3 aspect colour light home/section, onto the next boxes semaphore home, then semaphore section.

Doesn't fit in with the classic Distant - home - section example they teach you.