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| Not an anniversary to celebrate... 22/05/2015 at 13:04 #72585 | |
outofsection
149 posts |
... but it's 100 years ago today that Britain's worst ever railway accident occurred (at 06:50) at the Quintinshill signalbox. Tragically, 227 people lost their lives - many of whom were burnt alive in the ensuing inferno. May they continue to rest in peace and the necessary lessons continue to be learnt. There's an interesting documentary that was broadcast on BBC Four at 9pm last evening that introduces an interesting new theory that there was a cover-up done by the Government of the day and very lax practice by the Caledonian Railway Company, and that the main "culprit" James Tinsley may well have suffered a petit mal in the box which would explain why he "forgot" about the train he had just travelled up from Gretna on. Also, why didn't George Meakin (the signalman Tinsley relieved) send a blocking back code to the box to the north and set his block instrument to "Train On Line" as he moved the "Parly" train into a "wrong line" movement inside his section - especially as there was so many other trains & movements in the box's section going on? Whilst I know quite a bit about the disaster and the many instances of slack and even negligent practice by the "Caley", the documentary did tell me something new: that the troop train that was inadvertently signalled into the path of the "parly" sitting "wrong line" on the up line had been given royal train status i.e. bell code 4-4-4. What also gobsmacked me was that the "Caley" did not enforce the use of lever collars either: and that apparently the Midland Railway had at one time, a policy that signalmen were NOT supplied with or allowed to use lever collars as the company claimed "their use made signalmen lazy". It sounds like a totally unbelievably stupid, callous, pig-headed and haughty attitude to safety, but there you go: that's what passed for "prudent practice" in those days apparently! My heart goes out to any relatives who may still be alive of those who were killed in the accident. At least there's hope that maybe the blame for the disaster may perhaps be pointing towards the direction in which it may have really lain. Guess we'll never know exactly what happened on that fateful morning a a remote signalbox in Southern Scotland. Last edited: 22/05/2015 at 13:13 by outofsection Log in to reply |
| Not an anniversary to celebrate... 22/05/2015 at 14:16 #72586 | |
jc92
3629 posts |
Blocking back wasnt sent due to the way the rulebook worded it. At the point when the local was put bang road, an up mineral train was still within the clearing point preventing it from being sent, although the rules required BBI to be sent and acknowledged BEFORE such a movement takes place. That plus the pressure the box was under to keep things moving... troop trains were worked under special codes as they had priority over all over trains including postals and class a passengers. Not that the Caley agreed with that! They werent worked under royal train regulations eg double block working. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Not an anniversary to celebrate... 22/05/2015 at 14:23 #72587 | |
Steamer
3922 posts |
" said:It wasn't an unusual view in those days- there was one prominent figure who advised against providing interlocking etc. on the basis that the signalmen would rely on it and one day it would fail. I can't remember who it was now, and my copy of Signalman's Twilight isn't around for me to check! "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Not an anniversary to celebrate... 22/05/2015 at 14:36 #72588 | |
belly buster
368 posts |
On iplayer if anyone (in the UK!) wants to catch it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05vqx7v/britains-deadliest-rail-disaster-quintinshill
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| Not an anniversary to celebrate... 22/05/2015 at 16:13 #72590 | |
Ron_J
329 posts |
...and 100 years later we STILL get incidents occurring where signallers fail to use reminder appliances correctly. I was at the ceremony at Quintinshill today and found it quite moving. Last edited: 22/05/2015 at 16:13 by Ron_J Log in to reply |
| Not an anniversary to celebrate... 22/05/2015 at 17:05 #72591 | |
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Forest Pines
525 posts |
I saw something on the Internet earlier about a ceremony that was supposed to be held at the exact moment of the 100th anniversary - but was accidentally held an hour early by mistake due to GMT/BST confusion. Oops. Shame they got it wrong - it's not something you can do a second time. As jc92 has said, blocking back wasn't sent because there was a train in the section. When that train was knocked out block back should have been sent immediately; both signalmen said they couldn't remember who knocked out, it happening between the last/first signal each admitted to sending. Last edited: 22/05/2015 at 17:16 by Forest Pines Reason: Bit of explanation before anyone says "but it was at 6.49 which is the right time!" Log in to reply |
| Not an anniversary to celebrate... 22/05/2015 at 17:31 #72592 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:I saw something on the Internet earlier about a ceremony that was supposed to be held at the exact moment of the 100th anniversary - but was accidentally held an hour early by mistake due to GMT/BST confusion. Oops. Shame they got it wrong - it's not something you can do a second time.If they did it the other way, some other internet contributor would instead laugh at them for holding it at 7:50, rather than 6:50. I say they were wrong for not holding it exactly 100 mean tropical years later. By that definition, it should have been held at 12:05 UT (and quite possibly on a different day). Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Forest Pines |
| Not an anniversary to celebrate... 22/05/2015 at 17:43 #72593 | |
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sloppyjag
480 posts |
" said:I saw something on the Internet earlier about a ceremony that was supposed to be held at the exact moment of the 100th anniversary - but was accidentally held an hour early by mistake due to GMT/BST confusion. Oops. Shame they got it wrong - it's not something you can do a second time.At least they got the location right if not the time...erm, hang on... Planotransitophobic! Last edited: 22/05/2015 at 17:43 by sloppyjag Log in to reply |
| Not an anniversary to celebrate... 22/05/2015 at 18:36 #72594 | |
DaveHarries
1267 posts |
Definitely not an anniversary to celebrate and not one to forget either. Carlisle sim gives us SimSig-ers a constant reminder..... Dave Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| Not an anniversary to celebrate... 22/05/2015 at 20:43 #72596 | |
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Forest Pines
525 posts |
" said:I will trust your professional expertise on this. All the different definitions of days, years etc make my head spin. Or possibly orbit. Log in to reply |
| Not an anniversary to celebrate... 22/05/2015 at 20:55 #72597 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
" said:Definitely not an anniversary to celebrate and not one to forget either. Carlisle sim gives us SimSig-ers a constant reminder.....Interesting to see actually that the trailing crossover between the down and the up main lines is still there, albeit controlled by a ground frame. Assuming that is in the same place as the one used in the accident? Log in to reply |
| Not an anniversary to celebrate... 22/05/2015 at 21:16 #72599 | |
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Steamer
3922 posts |
" said:" said:It isn't, the one used in 1915 was in the middle of the loops, as shown here. The picture shows the state of play just before the troop train hit the local.Definitely not an anniversary to celebrate and not one to forget either. Carlisle sim gives us SimSig-ers a constant reminder.....Interesting to see actually that the trailing crossover between the down and the up main lines is still there, albeit controlled by a ground frame. Assuming that is in the same place as the one used in the accident? "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Not an anniversary to celebrate... 23/05/2015 at 02:28 #72604 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
Ah, I see. Thanks for the link.
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